<p>
</p>
<p>Public high school -> same state public university is typically a well worn enough path that both the high schools and universities are going to streamline courses / GPA / rank / whatever reporting and calculation for that path as much as possible. Individually evaluating these things would only have to be done for the minority of applicants from private or out of state high schools.</p>
<p>texaspg… Yes, all the kids go to the same fictitious school. They made the point of saying the regional admissions officer knew the school, and their grading policy. They also looked closely at the schools profile.</p>
<p>5boys - that is what the NU rep said too, i.e., the regional person is supposed to keep up with the school’s rep and will know how to interpret a student coming from that school.</p>
<p>momofthreeboys - I was curious about the adcom point of view. The way they talk about the process, they claim that the applicant is not compared against the other school applicants and is considered individually. So how do they determine someone with 91% is better than someone with 4.5 GPA who may be better than someone who averages 3.45 stars?</p>
<p>I mentioned MIT because they seem to have adcoms answering questions in CC whereas I don’t see much of that happening for any other school (may be its too early?)</p>
<p>Texaspg - honestly in my opinion if they know of the high schools then they have a way to evaluate that. Frankly even I know what my kids’ grades mean in context to the next door school district and most in the region. But bottom line is that I believe it’s not perfect, in other words they can’t always say Johnny is “better” than Sam which is why so many colleges and universities say they are holistic…because they can’t rank order 5,000 or 10,000 or 30,000 applications. This comes up every year on selective college forums…so and so got accepted and I didn’t but I had a higher GPA (SAT/ACT whatever). So I believe, and again this is my opinion, that in the case of say 3 kids with a 91%, a 3.45 unweighted and a 4.5 weighted from UNKNOWN schools and they can only pick one, that the colleges read the individual school profiles and try to get a feel for how rigorous the school is to get context to those scores and then…sometimes I personally think they just set aside GPA and use everything else in the application to make a decision which just makes quant people crazy I know. </p>
<p>Also if you look at the universities and colleges that basically admit anyone who meets a particular threshold that threshold is generally not terribly “high” and if you look at the website there is an appeal process for anyone denied.</p>
<p>Texas is unique because of their Top 10 program so clearly they have their own “state” ways of doing things and same for California…it seems to me from reading through years they they have a fairly rigid process that the public schools understand and follow for labeling classes, weighting GPAs etc. so I think if you are talking about states that have state-wide polcies or something unique like California’s tiered university system you can’t lump those examples in with the other 3000 colleges and universities because the process is different.</p>
<p>Being in Texas, I like the quantitative process since I know exactly where my kid stands based on the class rank, which in turn determines the auto admission. So if the top schools don’t take someone not in top 10%, the next set who accept upto 15%, 20%, 25% become automatic choices. I believe California adds on weight to standardized tests in the selection process. It is the holistic process that causes a bit of a heartburn since it feels like a blackhole.</p>
<p>I’ve had quants and linear type thinker people in my office crying (real tears) because of some process I implemented that they just couldn’t understand/fathom/think fair/deal with. Really, really smart people just reduced to tears. I grew up in a family of quants so I take it all in stride and am genuinely emphathetic, and believe me I do understand how foreign things can appear/sound/feel to quants and linear thinkers sometimes when it doesn’t align with the way they are wired. It’s all kind of interesting anyway.</p>
<p>From prospective of parent of college graduates (one graduated just one month ago), looking back, it is so irrelevant where kid goes while it is so important what he does there and if he is happy to be there for 4 most important years of his life. They will all end up mixed together after graduation, either at the jobs or Grad. Schools or Med. School…or whatever their next destination. My D. who went to state school will be surrounded with many kids from Ivy’s in Med. School. Difference: they paid for UG and we did not. End result: exactly the same. What my D. does in the last 3 weeks before her Med. School starts? -Visiting her UG friends, her old pretty campus, all will be awesome memories for the rest of her life, her spring board that propelled her to the next step. That’s all that matters. If kid visits and say, I belong there, let him go there, even if it is not Ivy or Elite or any in your own dreams. It is very important.</p>
<p>The most selective, private universities/colleges by and large do not recalculate or standardize applicants’ gpas. </p>
<p>It would be an impossible task.</p>
<p>Some of the very best high schools in this country don’t have GPAs, grade on scale of 1-6, grade on a scale of 1-11, grade on a scale of High Honors/Honors/High Pass/Pass/Fail, or don’t even have grades at all (they have narrative evaluations). One top-notch public high school only just recently changed its grading scheme – previously an “A” in an AP Course carried the weight of 5.67!</p>
<p>Context and grade swing are what are important. Mostly As in tough classes? Upward trend? Mixed grades in the tough courses junior year? Someone who says they’re dying to be an engineer, but only a B+ in Pre-Cal and a B at the first quarter in AP Calc?</p>
<p>I’ve seen HS’s where the valedictorian had a 3.8 and schools where someone ranked only in the top 10% had a 4.2 (out of 4.0 - but with a heavy weighting to APs). There are some HS’s that will only give “P” credit for transfer credits, so that a student who transfers in sophomore year basically gets a “free pass” on a year’s worth of grades that then aren’t calculated into the GPA. And so on and so forth.</p>
<p>Do grades matter? Yes. Does GPA? Only in the context that it represents that transcript (which admissions folks are going to be far more interested in looking at rather than just the gpa; the gpa itself is pretty meaningless).</p>
<p>^Not for selective program that has only 10 spots for incoming freshmen with applicant pool well over thousand. No, they will not take 3.7 when they have hundreds of 4.0’s to one spot (all have the same EC’s short of saving humanity from devastating deseases).
There is no general rule, there is no reason to calculate so deeply either.</p>
<p>
That may be true of med school or 6 year med programs, but it’s not true of most selective colleges overall.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Is that a public university program where GPA cut-offs determine admission?</p>
<p>I don’t know of any school in the category I described (private, most selective undergraduate) that refers to what you’re speaking of. . . . .or that recalculates GPA’s, even for such a segment/hypothetical portion of their applicant pool. Do you have any idea of how much time it would take to recalculate and/or standardize the GPAs of even 1,000 applicants? What would the school do for students who don’t even have a GPA? Who have grades on a 1-6 scale? Or a 1-11 scale? Or High Honors/Honors/High Pass (etc) scale? Or narrative evaluations? Or…? ETC. In some parts of New York the 0-100 GPA scale is common. In other parts it’s A, B, C, (4.0, 3.0, 2.0), etc. Some schools have +/- and this figures in. Other schools weight an AP course worth “5,” where at a neighboring district it’s worth 4.5, and still yet, at other school it’s a 4.25.</p>
<p>Doesn’t happen at the most selective private institutions. Can’t speak for public universities or other universities/colleges (no experience in either of those categories).</p>
<p>Here are a few that came up when I did a couple of Google searches.</p>
<p>Auburn University
[Office</a> of University Scholarships - Auburn University](<a href=“http://www.auburn.edu/scholarship/faqs/#I_Q35]Office”>http://www.auburn.edu/scholarship/faqs/#I_Q35)
“How does Auburn calculate high school GPA for the purpose of awarding
scholarships to incoming freshmen? The cumulative GPA (weighted or unweighted)
indicated on the high school transcript is used in determining eligibility
for admission and scholarships, provided the GPA is calculated on a 4.0
scale. Admission Processing will automatically recalculate the GPA if it is
not provided on a 4.0 scale or if a weighted GPA is not provided and the
student course work includes Advanced Placement, IB, Honors, and/or Gifted
courses. For more information regarding high school GPA, please contact…”</p>
<p>Duke University
[Duke</a> University Admissions: Ask a Question](<a href=“http://www.admissions.duke.edu/faq/index23e7.html?iQuestionID=525%20&iCategoryID=1]Duke”>http://www.admissions.duke.edu/faq/index23e7.html?iQuestionID=525%20&iCategoryID=1)
“What is the average GPA of accepted students? Does Duke recalculate GPAs?
Duke does not quote an average GPA. We cannot fairly estimate an average GPA
when many schools consider GPA on different scales and some do not consider GPA
at all. Also, Duke does not recalculate GPAs that come from a weighted system.
In general, we take what is given to us in the context of what we know and what
the guidance counselor tells us about the school.”</p>
<p>Georgia Institute of Technology
<a href=“Blow the Whistle! (404 error: page not found) | Undergraduate Admission”>Blow the Whistle! (404 error: page not found) | Undergraduate Admission;
“While students are ask to self-report their high school GPA (from the transcript) on our application, we recalculate a GPA for all applicants to use in our review process… We use a standard 4.0 grading scale, factoring in classes in the core areas of English, math, science, foreign language and social science, and all AP, IB or college level classes. For students taking AP, IB, or College level classes, we award an additional one-half point (0.5) for each course. For example, a student earning a B in an AP course would have that factored in as a 3.5, rather than a 3.0 for a standard level course. Weight is not added for courses labeled Honors, Gifted, Magnet, etc.”</p>
<p>Indiana University Bloomington
[Frequently</a> Asked Questions: Automatic Academic Scholarships:Office of Scholarships: Indiana University Bloomington](<a href=“Future Scholars: Office of Scholarships: Indiana University Bloomington”>Future Scholars: Office of Scholarships: Indiana University Bloomington)
“Do you recalculate GPA to consider core classes only?
No. IU does not recalculate GPAs for admission or scholarship purposes and
utilizes the assessment provided by the high school on the transcript.”</p>
<p>Oberlin College
[Oberlin</a> Blogs | Blog Entry: “What’s in a GPA?”](<a href=“http://blogs.oberlin.edu/applying/selection_process/whats_in_a_gpa.shtml]Oberlin”>http://blogs.oberlin.edu/applying/selection_process/whats_in_a_gpa.shtml)
“For every application we receive, the first reader of your application (that’s your regional representative–if you go to high school in Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, Florida, North Carolina, South Carolina, or Arkansas, that’s me!) will re-calculate an unweighted four-point GPA, using only your grades in core academic classes.”</p>
<p>Purdue University
[Purdue</a> University - Core GPA](<a href=“Learn about Purdue University - Undergraduate Admissions - Purdue University”>Learn about Purdue University - Undergraduate Admissions - Purdue University)
“Because of the variances in weighting scales, we calculate the student’s
academic core GPA to use as one factor in admission and scholarship decisions.
However, the strength of the student’s curriculum (in the context of the
coursework that is available at his or her school) also is a factor.
The core GPA is calculated using unweighted grades from only the academic
coursework reported on the applicant’s official high school transcript -
courses in English, college preparatory math, lab science, social studies, and
foreign language.
For the recalculation, we use the same grading scale that is used for Purdue
students…”</p>
<p>University of Florida
[Ask</a> UF – How will UF compute my high school GPA?](<a href=“http://www.questions.ufl.edu/admissions/freshman/15/]Ask”>http://www.questions.ufl.edu/admissions/freshman/15/)
“The Office of Admissions recomputes the high school GPA for every freshman
applicant.
Our admissions officers use the high school transcript provided to our office,
and the grading scale included on that transcript.
Only academic subjects are used in the calculation — English, math, social
sciences, sciences and foreign languages (freshmen are required to have
successfully completed 2 consecutive units of a foreign language).
Additional weight is added in the calculation to any courses that are Honors,
Dual-Enrollment, AICE, Advanced Placement, or International Baccalaureate.”</p>
<p>University of Miami
[Freshmen</a> Applicants | Enrollment Management | University of Miami](<a href=“http://www.miami.edu/index.php/ug/applying/freshmen_application_documents/]Freshmen”>http://www.miami.edu/index.php/ug/applying/freshmen_application_documents/)
“The University of Miami uses a holistic admission process in which all parts of a student’s application are considered. Every application receives a full and comprehensive evaluation. We base our admission decision on the student’s academic strength and how competitive that student is in the applicant pool.
There is no minimum GPA or test score requirement for admission. The Admission Committee does not recalculate high school GPAs. We use the GPA (weighted and/or unweighted) provided by your high school. Although not a requirement, a competitive freshman student for admission has a strong A-/B+ average, around a 1320 SAT and/or around a 30 ACT test score, and ranks in the top 10% of their graduating class.” </p>
<p>University of South Florida
[Freshmen</a> Requirements - Undergraduate Admissions at the University of South Florida](<a href=“http://usfweb2.usf.edu/Admissions/Freshmen/freshman-requirements.aspx]Freshmen”>http://usfweb2.usf.edu/Admissions/Freshmen/freshman-requirements.aspx)
“For determining admissibility to USF, we will recalculate your high school GPA
based on grades earned in high school only in core academic subject areas, as
well as specified AP and IB fine and performing arts courses. USF will add the
quality points outlined below for approved AP, IB, AICE, Honors and Dual
Enrollment courses provided you earn a “C” or better.”</p>
<p>University of Southern California
[Freshman</a> Standards - USC Undergraduate Admission](<a href=“http://www.usc.edu/admission/undergraduate/apply/fresh_standards.html]Freshman”>http://www.usc.edu/admission/undergraduate/apply/fresh_standards.html)
“Grade Point Average
When assessing grade point average, consideration is also given to class rank
and to the strength and frequency of Advanced Placement/International
Baccalaureate course work in a student’s curriculum. Naturally, we are
interested in consistently strong academic performance throughout your
four-year high school record. However, we realize that some bright students,
for one reason or another, don’t always get off to a great start in ninth
grade. In these cases, special attention is given to steady and substantial
improvement throughout the sophomore, junior and senior years”.</p>
<p>The University of Tennessee Knoxville
[Requirements</a> for Admission | UT Knoxville Undergraduate Admissions](<a href=“http://admissions.utk.edu/undergraduate/apply/requirements.shtml]Requirements”>http://admissions.utk.edu/undergraduate/apply/requirements.shtml)
“Core GPA
In the core academic subjects listed above, your GPA will be weighted by UT to
reflect honors courses (.5 quality points added), and Advanced Placement (AP),
International Baccalaureate (IB), and dual enrollment courses (1.0 quality
points added). UT will use unweighted high school course grades as the basis
for adding these weightings for the UT core GPA calculation.”</p>
<p>West Virginia University
[Admissions</a> Office | University Admissions Requirements | West Virginia University](<a href=“http://adm.wvu.edu/freshman/university_admissions_requirements]Admissions”>http://adm.wvu.edu/freshman/university_admissions_requirements)
“Grade-point average (GPA) is based on information received from a student’s
high school transcript. The most recent cumulative GPA on the transcript is used
when determining admission to the University. This is the same GPA used by the
Undergraduate Scholarship Office when determining scholarship eligibility.
WVU reviews high school GPA based on a four-point grading scale. In most
instances, WVU will consider weighted GPA when determining eligibility for
admission and scholarships. WVU reserves the right to recalculate GPA when the
weighted or non-weighted GPA falls outside of the four-point scale or in other
instances where recalculation is deemed appropriate.
The Office of Admissions does not re-calculate GPA for scholarship consideration
after the initial high school transcript is received.”</p>
<p>Great stuff, Deborah.</p>
<p>Thanks, Pizzagirl.</p>
<p>Although I get that the folks on this thread don’t care that much about UCs, I thought I’d add that although they do their own GPA calculations they can only do that because on the application you need to enter your course and the grades one by one. They have already classified the courses (for Cal high schools), so the recalculation is a simple computer thing. If a college is only going off of a transcript, it would be almost impossible for a large school to do this.</p>
<p>Also, not true that all CSUs only look at 10th and 11th grades. CalPoly SLO also looks at 9th grade. I know that because that’s why D didn’t apply. There may be other CSUs that also look at 9th.</p>
<p>Following up on doughmom’s post.</p>
<p>Cal Poly SLO Freshman Selection Criteria
[How</a> to Apply - Admissions - Cal Poly](<a href=“Cal Poly Admissions”>Cal Poly Admissions)</p>
<p>Cal Poly desires 10 semesters of English and 10 semesters of math to be taken in the 8 semesters of high school?</p>
<p>justmytwocents,
"Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiDAP
^Not for selective program that has only 10 spots for incoming freshmen with applicant pool well over thousand. No, they will not take 3.7 when they have hundreds of 4.0’s to one spot (all have the same EC’s short of saving humanity from devastating deseases).
There is no general rule, there is no reason to calculate so deeply either. </p>
<p>Is that a public university program where GPA cut-offs determine admission?"</p>
<ul>
<li>I was refering to some very selective programs. They exist at both private and public schools. It is very normal to have over hundred applicants to one spot in these programs. All applicants have EC’s but they are not going to be considered if they do not meet certain standards in both GPA and SAT/ACT. I am aware of only one type of selective programs - combined bs/md. I am sure there are others that I have no experience to discuss. If one is aspired to apply to these programs, they have to plan from first day of HS. However, again, there is no need to be too much absessed with selective programs either. If kid does not get in, then it was not meant to be, just find another way to achieve the same goal. Staying cool, enjoy every event in your life and be happy with what you have are the most important things, the rest is very secondary.</li>
</ul>
<p>ucb… I saw that too awhile ago about Cal-Poly and the weird 10 semester requirements and thought that was odd… REALLY??? What’s the deal with that? That is stronger requirements than Harvard…LOL!!</p>
<p>^You have Veto power, just as any consumer of any product…do not buy it. Do not have to send a kid to place with unreasonable requirements, unless kid believes that they are OK and not unreasonable.</p>