My tombstone will have exactly 0 references to my college or career.
Neither will my tombstone refer to my expensive house.
I’ve skipped the discussion, so please excuse me if I’m out of sync with how the topic has developed, but my ex-husband and I are some that don’t feel a college education is worth 70K. We both went to a small LAC and, while I feel my education there was “invaluable” I think we both would agree that we would be hard-pressed to justify paying full price for our son to go there. We may end up having to do just that, as the kid hasn’t really caught on to the whole concept of shopping for merit aid, but the thought is - if he get into an Ivy League, yeah, we’ll make it work. But other than that, unless there is merit aid, state flagship is probably the way to go. My in-laws are fairly high-profile professors and they have basically said the same thing. You can succeed wherever you go to school. That’s not to say certain environments wouldn’t be better for certain kids - I’d love for my kid to get the kind of attention and academic rigor he could get at a small, elite LAC. I actually think that would be the best place for him, but, considering he doesn’t really know what he wants to do and most likely will end up wanting to go to grad school, 70k for undergrad is just ridiculous.
“…at least among people who post here, the ultimate choice is generally made by the student – not parent – although parents set the budget…I don’t agree at all with the assertion that it “tends to be the parents making the choice.””
To me it’s making a choice with agency over the finances that is rare on CC. Parents set a budget, but don’t give the kid the money. A few offer modest incentives or say the kid should have “skin in the game” from choosing a more expensive school, but rarely is there the offer of “here’s the $300K it would cost for Stanford”.
I cannot imagine handing my kid cash for picking a cheaper school. I don’t hand my husband cash for buying new tires at Costco instead of the dealer; I don’t give my parents dough for buying the generic drug online instead of paying full freight at Walgreens.
Why would you give your kid $300K for not picking Stamford- exactly what is the rationale? Presumably you are all on the same side… picking the college which maximizes your kids educational opportunities, keeping in mind costs, distance, and all the “fit” variables. How does that net a cash award?
The idea of “we’ll pay you NOT to choose Stamford” is reinforcing the idea that many folks on this thread have reacted to as offensive- the idea that UCLA is “inferior” because it costs less. And the cash bounty seems to suggest that parents and kids are on the opposite teams… and the only way to get to “yes” is via a bribe.
Yikes.
Isn’t the parental budget limit normally so tight (for typical families in the US earning $50k-$70k per year, not the “donut hole upper middle class that does not get financial aid anywhere” that is most common on these forums) that it tightly limits the student’s choice of colleges (especially in states where the in-state public universities are relatively expensive with poor in-state financial aid)?
@blossom It’s not about giving the student a “cash bonus” for picking a “lesser” school. The point is that when one is comparing the relative values of an elite school, at full pay, versus a full ride (or at least significant scholarships) at a somewhat less elite school, then the comparison should include the value of the cash that is saved. The question isn’t “is a Harvard degree worth more than a degree from UNCCH?” it’s "is a Harvard degree worth more than a degree from UNCCH plus $250,000? Is a Brown degree worth more than a Stamps scholarship to Ohio State plus $300,000?
I find it interesting that many parents who would willingly fork out $250-300K for an elite degree, would not even consider the possibility of letting their child take a full-ride elsewhere and use the money saved to buy a house or start a business or to set them up for retirement. And I have to wonder how much of that has to do with the fact that there is a big difference in prestige, for the parent, between saying “my kid goes to Harvard” and “my kid owns his own home/owns his own business/has a fully funded retirement account at the age of 18/etc.” The latter may actually be more advantageous for the student in the long run, but it seems few parents even consider it.
@Corraleno
Great point! That is pretty much how I am doing it with my daughter albeit the numbers are lower and doubt she is getting a full ride anywhere.
@ socaldad2002, re post 100, that would never be the choice. The question would be Wharton full pay vs ASU full merit. In an area like finance/business, where Wharton is arguably the top business school in the nation and will open so many more doors, we would pay full price for Wharton, as I think would most full pay families. Now, if the question was Penn Nursing full pay vs ASU nursing with full merit, it would be ASU all the way. And this is not to disparage nursing, but to make the point that whether to pay 70k a year for an undergrad degree is, at least for us, related to the intended major (as well as the nature of the child, per my earlier post).
And, for those who say you are doing your kids a disservice by not sending them to a top full-pay option for undergrad when you can afford it (though you are by no means millionaires), I can’t remember the last time I was asked where I went to undergrad. As a lawyer, no one seems to care. My husband says that’s also true in the field of medicine.
We have always approached this as a “total experience” decision, so we might very well have chosen Penn Nursing full pay over ASU Nursing full merit. I qualified my statement with “might” because this was not one of our choices. The options our son had included a range of full pay, full merit, and partial merit options, but when the total experience was evaluated, a full pay school was the route he took. Would not change a thing.
I think it is safe to say the whole college process has so many variables that there is not one best answer for everyone. We are all in different situations with different kids who want different stuff.
You just have to try to make the best decision you can based on the info you have at the time. Really that is all we can do.
We turned down full tuition at my D’s two safety schools for her OOS public honors college. One was ranked in the 200s, one in the low 100s. Her OOS public is top 10 for her major so definitely not apples to apples. We are full pay and were willing to pay $70K/year for the right fit but the right fit for her was the OOS public. If money had been a concern, we would have made a different decision, and she would have applied to a different set of schools.
I would have been happy to have my kid take a full ride and use the cash for something else (You can’t stick 200K in a kid’s retirement account all at once so I’m not sure how relevant your example is, but certainly starting a business.) But only if the full ride was at a college which met his/her academic and intellectual goals, not because they wanted the dough at the other end. But we weren’t looking at a full ride at a comparable college- we were looking at another state’s flagship U (cheaper than full pay private, but NOT a full ride by any means and still a small fortune) or taking a merit award at a college which did not have the desired program.
Life would be so easy if every single private college had an exact analog except it costs less. One of you will have to write that book: “If you love Cal Tech, you’ll also love XYZ college”. I’m not that smart.
And my kids all seem to be doing fine professionally, and understand that fully funding their OWN retirement accounts is a financial priority given their youth… Since they are all out-earning me by now, I’m not worried about their retirement. Fortunately.
@blossom , here was our rationale for doing this with DD1:
We set a college budget that was below our EFC, because we were not in a position to afford our entire EFC especially with two more kids coming down the pike. We could afford, at most, $100k per child for college, adjusted for inflation.
We viewed the college budget as a gift to DD, intended for her to invest in her education and early life/career (broadly defined)-- including textbooks, transportation, room/board/rent, and so on. We weren’t “bribing” her to go to a cheap school, we were giving her a monetary gift to help pay for the school of her choice.
DD’s #1 favorite school would have cost around $28k per year (and she could easily make up the extra $3k with savings and summer jobs.) But her #2 favorite offered her a scholarship that dropped the cost to <$10k per year. If DD had no financial stake in the decision, there would have been little reason for her to choose the much cheaper school. Since she did have a financial stake, she decided to go with the cheaper option, which she liked nearly as well as the #1.
This has ended up producing educational benefits, some unforeseen. She had the means to complete an unpaid research internship over a summer, which led to her getting a research position and eventually getting into a top 10 grad school in her field. She made her decision for grad school without financial restraints (had the resources to afford to go to school in a pricey city). She’s been able to help her new husband pay off his student loans, freeing up their cash flow and making life a lot easier for both of them.
This setup also seemed more fair to us, considering our two other daughters. With most purchases, we don’t worry about being “fair” to all 3 girls since they have different needs. But something as expensive as college, where the spending on one can dramatically limit the choices of the others, there is potential to create long-lasting resentments if handled poorly. We felt that offering a flat college “gift” to everyone was a fair way to bless all of our girls.
My kid was pretty easy in that she knew exactly the kind of experience she wanted and what she wanted to study. We found 16 schools that offered competitive full rides or close to it that would have been very good fits. I can’t imagine a situation where only one college would be a good fit and for which there is no comparable college. But I realize some do think some colleges are unparalleled.
(Money doesn’t have to be in a retirement account for it to be for retirement. I’m turning over a managed account to my D. She can choose to set it aside for retirement.).
So ducks are you saying you gifted your daughter the $15K per year she would have otherwise spent if she went to school #1? What happens if one of your other kids needs a bit more money to meet their career goals? Or are not eligible for a merit award (some schools that offered merit to my oldest have changed to a need-only model)? If one kids is just not as capable academically, I don’t think they should be financially punished.
I did not/would not do that. My kids had the option to choose among the affordable choices. If they chose the in-state public, the reward was they did not have to take any federal loans (and perhaps some help with a car if they graduated in four years). But I would not hand them the difference between that school and the private school they might have attended. One chose this option; the other two did not. To me, the money was for their education. If they didn’t want to use it all, it goes back in the family pot.
Ducks- thanks for your explanation. Your approach makes sense, given what you’ve written.
We did NOT see our contribution to our kids education as a gift. Perhaps where the disconnect is. If we’d had a child who needed a stint in rehab (which fortunately, we did not) we wouldn’t have seen that as a gift either. It would have been viewed as a necessary part of launching that child (hopefully) into a productive and purpose-filled life. We wouldn’t have written a blank check to Betty Ford- no need to pay top dollar if there is another clinic/program which was a better fit (and might cost less), but it wouldn’t have been a gift. If we’d had a child who was not college bound (not interested, not capable, wanted vocational training, needed a group home environment) that wouldn’t be a gift either- it would be our obligation to launch that kid to the best of our ability.
Different families use a different framework for decision-making and that is absolutely their right. I have a friend whose kid DID spend time in a residential rehab facility; they chose not to pay for college for him (for a variety of reasons, one of which was they felt that had spent his college money on his addiction treatment) and although I don’t know that I’d have made the same choice, he is their son and it is their money.
Thanks for explaining.
Stamford? Maybe your argument is understandable. But it was Stanford. The rationale is since he saved $300k on his education, if my kid chooses to go to an Honors College for free, he saved the money earmarked for his education, so he can use the money instead to buy an apartment or to invest. It’s not as if he’s going to spend money on buying a car and clothes.
I was on his side. I wanted him to know how much money he would be losing at the beginning by going to Stanford, and make sure he makes his decision knowing this. Whatever choice he made, I would have been proud and fine with it. I am not a prestige crazy but appreciate the name brand.
I mean, that Honors College had a decent courses and programs, so it wasn’t as if he wouldn’t get a decent education by going there, although it wasn’t strong across the board.
“We did NOT see our contribution to our kids education as a gift. Perhaps where the disconnect is…It would have been viewed as a necessary part of launching that child (hopefully) into a productive and purpose-filled life.”
Another consideration is when you consider your child as “launched” and responsible for themselves. If you give them that responsibility after high school then it’s easier to view the money for education as a gift to help them get started. If you view them as not fully responsible until after they’ve graduated and found a job (and left home?) then I expect you’d look at paying for them during college as being more your responsibility and your money.
I knew when I left for college I was never going home again except for holidays. I don’t expect my kids to move home after college either. [For different reasons: I grew up in an economically depressed area with few good jobs, my kids probably won’t come back here because it’s too expensive if you don’t want to work in tech]. So I do view them as now being responsible for deciding what to do with their college money and how best to use it to become independent.
On the other hand, I don’t view paying for high school costs and activities etc as something that’s my kids’ responsibility or therefore as something that should be or needs to be equalized between them. I assume that is how many people view paying for college too.
I’d point out that there are 3 different types of choices being discussed.
One – which I feel is very rational – is comparison of colleges based on actual offerings or setting – specific majors or college environment. Obviously if the student wants to study chemical engineering, it’s better to be at a college that offers that program. But that concern is not tied to prestige or expense. There are public polytech colleges that offer accredited programs in engineering, and private prestigious colleges that don’t.
Another is cost differential and relative value for money. Relative is along a scale. Maybe the price points for a full pay parent end up being $70K at one college, $50K at another, $30K at another, and -0- somewhere else (with a full ride scholarship). And maybe the 0 cost school really does come up short on its offerings – that doesn’t mean that the choice has to be in favor of the $70K school. We make these relative valuation decisions every day in our lives – it should apply to college as well. Just because colleges now are charging $70K doesn’t mean that any college is worth $70K to a family when there are other less expensive options.
The third – and the one that I think really is based on a very narrow view – is when decisions are made solely based on prestige or rankings. When the parent will pay whatever it costs for their kid to attend Harvard or Yale without even considering whether that Ivy League college is the best environment for their child or that child’s goals. The parent who thinks that prestige and ranking is in and of itself evidence of some vastly superior qualitative difference, ignoring all of the other schools that seem well regarded enough to merit a listing in the Princeton Review Best 384 college book. And even worse are the parents who are willing to pay that cost ONLY for the prestige school – where it becomes either Ivy or in-state public, with no opportunity to explore other options. And of course those parents are entitled to spend their money however they choose — but their kids may very well be missing out on opportunities that would be available at different schools if the choice was being made with a greater focus on objective factors. It’s not merely a ROI analysis, but an analysis based on specifics.