<p>I don’t think many of these full-time professors (in top conservatories) have any trouble attracting students. Their studios are full, and many, many students are turned away. I have never thought of scouting for students as one of their jobs. It seems that they are plenty busy enough with their own performance schedules (those who perform) and their teaching duties. </p>
<p>Rigaudon brings up an interesting point about whether there are students who are dissuaded from applying to certain schools after practice lessons. I don’t know if that is true, but I would hope so. I did ask different teachers about my son’s competitiveness, based on their lessons with him, and believe that if any of them had felt he was way out of the ballpark of possibility, they would have told me. I feel that honest feedback is very important to people who are potentially spending hundreds or thousands of dollars on applications and audition travel. Aside from seeing if the student and teacher work well together, a practice lesson is another assessment of talent, or at least that was one way I looked at it.</p>
<p>One last thing: most people can’t fly all over the country looking at schools and having practice lessons. It really is important to identify a few programs, and keep the number finite. No one has the energy or finances to look at all the potential programs. The number of schools to visit and have lessons at need not be exhaustive. Over the course of two years, we looked at ten (including two local) and son auditioned at five. That was plenty.</p>
<p>Sagiter, after reading the bios of the teachers of your son’s instrument at the schools where he was accepted, it appears to me that none of them are employed full time by their respective schools. All of them list current (and in some cases extensive) performing experience with professional ensembles. Some list concurrent positions at other schools and private practice at least to the extent of masterclasses and workshops. I think you were dealing with the type of applied teacher that is typical of good music schools everywhere - a performer first who takes on additional part-time work for a variety of reasons ranging from a love of teaching to the search for group health insurance.</p>
<p>Be careful when you tell them to reconsider their positions. If schools had to pay these folks what they are actually worth, either tuition would go even higher than it already is or else they would have to hire less competent teachers.</p>
<p>Allmusic, teachers at top conservatories generally do not have trouble filling their studios, but neither are most of them full time teachers. If you go down a notch or two from the top, there is more concern about filling seats. Given the number of schools to which students apply these days, it takes a lot of applicants to produce each enrolled student, particularly at those programs that are not at the top of everyone’s reach list.</p>
<p>I think the idea of paying for lessons varies in different parts of the country and by instrument. My son, a cellist, was never asked to pay for any sample lessons until he was meeting with teachers for graduate level work in the NYC area. All of the NY teachers required payment. I also think it is more common for violin and voice than other instruments perhaps. </p>
<p>As far as the whole travel thing goes, it really helps to plan ahead. Son was able to work with a few teachers at summer programs and attended those programs specifically because he would have that opportunity. We were also able to arrange a lesson with one teacher who was in a nearby city giving a performance. The lesson does not have to include a visit. You will get a chance to visit the school when you audition there if you decide to do so.</p>
<p>D applied to six schools and only one teacher charged for a lesson. (It happened to be the teacher she went with) I told D, that a good lesson is a good lesson — dont balk at paying. The teacher who did charge is VERY VERY busy, is in a large market with PLENTY of singers seeking her help and her time is worth the $125/HR. This same teacher has gone to bat for D for several scholarships—so basically D got a lot of value for the money spent. (I know its a bit pedestrian speaking of money well spent, but there it is)</p>
<p>I have to admit that I was initially calculating how much money I might have to shell out for “sample” lessons and I was sweating it out. Some of them tell you the amount in an advance email. Some do not. As was already mentioned in this forum, have cash on you. I was a little surprised at the large amount one teacher wanted and offered a check and she suggested I go to the ATM. Better safe than embarrassed. That said, most of the teachers say they do it as part of their job and that they enjoy meeting new students and seeing young talent. A couple of schools have policies against accepting money. During a recent visit in the same department, two teachers wanted no money and one teacher required $100, which was stated in our email correspondence, so that was fine. Typically we take a small token of appreciation to the teacher so that we have something even if they don’t require financial compensation. It is always appreciated. And then, I have my D send thank you notes.</p>
<p>We did not learn of this process until it was too late to arrange lessons prior to auditions. We researched possible studios with the information available. So DD had her sample lessons with the top 3 schools that accepted her. In those cases, it was really her interviewing the professors and none charged.</p>
<p>Must say ATM is a first. My check was always accepted. </p>
<p>AAOF one teacher lost my check and emailed me requesting another one… Since D didn’t hit it off with this person and wasn’t going to apply there I was seriously considering not sending the replacement check, but the music world is so incestuous, I figured that we may regret that decision down the road…</p>
<p>We had a similar situation, where the teacher at first said he didn’t want to be paid, and then emailed me and asked for a check! It wasn’t a match anyway (but I did send the check…).</p>
<p>I am in complete agreement with Allmusic. We considered it a privilege for my son to be able to meet and take a lesson with the great teachers he saw. It was both instructive for deciding on schools and helpful in his musical development. Musicians (as we all realize) are generally scraping together their living and should certainly at least be offered payment for their time giving lessons to complete strangers. Some will accept it, some will not, but it should be offered.</p>
<p>My D had no trouble getting sample lessons, even though there was a real mix-up at one school which resulted in her getting a lesson with a teacher she didn’t know of and who was not anywhere near a “match” for her. In fact, the director of the VP program there who wrote things down incorrectly was then annoyed that we had a tour and lesson scheduled at another school the next day and wouldn’t cancel it for her! Then wouldn’t you know it, that was the only school/teacher who asked for ( in actuality,demanded would be closer to the point) a hefty fee for said lesson even though they had originally said there was no charge! Do I have to tell you that D crossed that place off of her list, despite its “name”?</p>
<p>Sagiter – I think I got first warning of this possibility (the teachers charging for a practice lesson) from BassDad’s opous on finding the right music school. It doesn’t happen for often but it happens. And I can understand why some voice teachers want to do it. They want the student to understand that their lessons are worth something.</p>
<p>Ah. I’m sorry you are annoyed. But you assume everyone who comes for a sample lesson is coming far, and spending lots, just like you.</p>
<p>Can’t you imagine what would happen if word got out that esteemed teachers at (put favorite school here) gave free lessons to high school students who might be interested in their school? Not everyone lives far away. </p>
<p>For example, if my D could get a free violin lesson from Joshua Bell, just by saying she might be interested in coming to Indiana (even though she knows she doesn’t stand a chance there, but she idolizes Joshua Bell…) - well, imagine how many more who live closer might want to take that opportunity. </p>
<p>I don’t know that it’s the teacher’s responsibility to know (or care) how much you are spending to travel. Or if you just live around the corner. Or are there on vacation and decided to drop by… </p>
<p>I do think teachers have the freedom and flexibility to adjust fees to fit particular situations.</p>
<p>My S’s teacher is on faculty at three different colleges, and pursues a performance career as well. Most of the teachers he met with had similar situations. The fact that they were willing to grant my S time at all out of their packed schedules was flattering. (And we did encounter teachers who could not make time for us.) Expecting them to give up their time for a complete stranger who wants to check them out just never occurred to us. The times we weren’t charged were pleasant surprises, but never expected.</p>
<p>So yes, by charging a fee, I think that plays a part in paring down the pool. </p>
<p>I do feel bad about the many musicians who “could have been great” who were hindered by the money aspect - Couldn’t afford the lessons, the school, the teacher, the instrument… My kids have had a number of advantages due to our ability and willingness to pay for them. Sometimes things aren’t fair.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, there are varying policies as to having to “fork it over” for lessons, and the inconsistency in and of itself may well be what causes angst. Some schools prohibit it, some turn a blind eye, some see it as part of the admissions process. </p>
<p>If push comes to shove, and finances are an issue, by all means speak up. If it’s a point where every dollar counts, and each visit is a financial stumbling block, be honest with the instructor. I’ll bet most will work with you. Musicians tend to be a flexible lot. Just don’t go in dressed to the nine’s, driving the Lexus, pull your Amati and Pecate bow from the Musafia case and cry poverty while writing the check. ;)</p>
<p>For all we know, there may well be a tolerance level for individual instructors. (“Ok, I’ve done 100 freebies this cycle, now it’s time to charge or vice versa.”) </p>
<p>Perhaps there should be slightly higher charge for the admissions application, and the schools reimburse the instructor for lessons given. Or a standard form, that states an institution’s policy and a flat fee schedule for sample lessons. At least you’ll know upfront, and be able to allocate resources to cover the expense.</p>
<p>I’d love to hear from admission pros, like N8Ma and fiddlestix to get an institutional take on this.</p>
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<p>This is an excellent way of getting an insight on a number of teachers. A number of parent/students target their summer programs based on sampling faculty from institutions they are considering pursuing. If you can kill two birds with one stone, you save ammunition for later.</p>
<p>The process is expensive. It comes down to that for many. It’s balancing your resources to gain the most benefit across a broad enough spectrum to get your kid to this level. It ain’t easy and it ain’t cheap.</p>
<p>BassDad, I do expect any performance teacher to actually perform as part of what they do and would question any instructor in this field weho had given up performance. Using that as an excuse to charge for meeting students falls flat to me. Specific to my son’s prospective profs only one that I know of spent any significant time away from school, Jackson at Hartt who teaches elsewhere and is the principal euph in the USCG band.</p>
<p>All that said my point was that I was never asked for money and I would not have expected it. Again this might change with the flute teachers I will meet with my daughter in the next two years.</p>
<p>As an occasional performing musician myself, and as one who knows many others who both perform and teach, perhaps I see things in a different light. These folks are piecing together three and four jobs in an attempt to make a decent living. While many of the teachers at top music schools have had a bit more success in their careers and may be beyond the starving artist stage, if you go down one or two small steps the picture is not always as rosy. Teaching is one of several things many professional musicians do to pay the rent and some of them cannot afford to volunteer a lot of their time giving unpaid sample lessons. In my opinion, that should not disqualify them from teaching at the college level.</p>
<p>Many teachers do give freely of their time for sample lessons and, as a father with two kids in college, I appreciate that when it happens. Others do not, for various reasons which I do not find uniformly appalling. Unless I know the teacher very well, I prefer to err on the side of offering payment where it may not be expected rather than presuming that it should never be expected at all.</p>
<p>Another way of looking at it: when finding private teachers for my daughter, we always offered to pay for the first lesson even though it was understood by everyone that it was a trial run and that future lessons would be contingent upon mutual compatibility. In most cases that payment was accepted, and in many I dare say it was expected. I do not see why the situation should be so different when a school is involved in the transaction.</p>
<p>If we were charged to visit a school, or take a tour, I would be appalled. The admission folk are there for that purpose. Meeting the private studio teachers seems reasonable.</p>
<p>When we asked about the opportunity to meet certain teachers, they helped us arrange it. We never had to pay for “meetings.” If we were sitting in on someone else’s lesson, a class, or a master class, I wouldn’t expect to have to pay for it, either. I could judge a teacher’s ability to teach, or personality by doing these things.</p>
<p>If, however, we asked for a lesson, I see that as something completely different: A demand on the teacher’s time that was not required by his contract (which is often something along the lines of “maintain a studio of x number of students”), or by our ability to apply to the school. We wanted a “real” lesson, not a favor. We wanted to evaluate my kid’s ability to learn from this person, and perhaps obtain a personal evaluation of my kid’s ability. I am asking something outside of the teacher’s normal teaching duties. This is not something I would expect gratis.</p>
<p>The one exception I would possibly argue over would be if, AFTER an acceptance, a student was trying to decide among a couple studios. At that point, I might be willing to see the sample lesson incorporated into the admission/audition fee. At this point, we would just be looking a no more than a few students the teacher would need to meet, as opposed to dozens of juniors and seniors from all over the country who *might * be interested.</p>
<p>If my kid was majoring in calculus, and I asked for a private SAT prep from the calculus teacher, I would also expect to pay, even if his contracted job was to teach calculus. Most calculus students, though, seem willing to take what they get, so this doesn’t happen too often. Music is kinda unique in the relationship with one particular teacher.</p>
<p>Like binx said and BassDad said… We had paid for lessons with 60% of the teaches we had lessons with. I always assumed we would pay and asked up front before scheduling the lesson how much payment would be, and there was a heck of a range in payments and could range considerably at the same institution. </p>
<p>I found this neither offensive nor abnormal (Did Abby has a last name?), just a part of the price of this crazy, time and cash intensive journey, period.</p>