<p>I've read countless posts on CC about scheduling sample lessons. However, when I speak to people at different universities about this, they act like I am bringing up some unheard of notion. Or I have been told that sample lessons can only be done when my D is there for auditions. Is there some secret code I need to get the right replies? Also, are sample lessons not only chances to see how you like a school/instructor, but ALSO an opportunity for D to get some feedback on her capabilities? What should our expectations be as far as what we can truly get out of a sample lesson. And lastly, where do you think this idea of a sample lesson rates on a scale of 1 (not necessary at all) to 10 (absolutely necessary)? Thanks!</p>
<p>I would rate it a 10. It’s not required to get in, but it is important to get the right teacher. Contact a teacher directly via email and request a lesson (and how much they charge—some do and some don’t). And yes, you can get feedback on your students capabilities as well as whether or not the teacher is right for your student. Every teacher and some schools have different policies on lessons. It’s something you need to feel out for yourself. (i.e. nothing comes easy) (also do a search within this forum and you will find it discussed many times.)</p>
<p>Also, you might not get responses from the teachers since it is still summer break time at some of the schools. You can try again in a few weeks if they don’t respond to your inquiries now. DS had sample lessons at all 6 schools but we only scheduled 3. The others were offered by the faculty after the audition. So its a great way to get a feel for the school and program but you don’t have to do it all before the auditions. You can also go back and schedule sample lessons after the acceptances come rolling in. (The teachers will be very motivated to schedule them once they’ve decided that they want your daughter!)</p>
<p>Quite frankly I have run into the same situation as K8sDad. When I call a school asking about sample lessons they answer like I’m a little off my game. The most common reply has been that this is much more common for graduate students and not regularly done with undergrad. Now being the fact that they are in fact charging for lessons, you’d think they would be more than happy to schedule sample lessons, but it doesn’t appear to be the case. And this isn’t at some local community college. I was told the same thing at both BU and FSU. It makes me wonder… if I press the issue, am I really helping or hurting my son’s chances? Don’t know if it matters, but this is for a Vocal Performance program.</p>
<p>Did you call the school or contact the teacher directly? It’s not the departments job to set up sample lessons. Just wondering. When we emailed teachers (sometimes a response takes a while) D ,as an undergrad applicant, was never turned away…there was frequently an issue with scheduling, but that’s the only road block we encountered.</p>
<p>DD did her sample lessons for the most part after her acceptances when she was making her final decision. Maybe not as effective but certainly fine. And since it was kind of a reverse interview there were no problems scheduling them. .</p>
<p>I suspect it depends on the program and such. From what I have seen of sample lessons, they don’t seem to be formal, rather it is something students schedule with a teacher to see potential fit rather then being a formal program. In terms of whether to do it before an audition has happened or after, lot of that is up to the teacher and also the student’s philosophy.</p>
<p>If a student schedules sample lessons before the audition, it gives them an advantage in that they have seen teachers and it can help them decide who to put down on their form that they wish to study with when applying (for schools that do that, not all do). In other words, the student, rather then relying on reputation or recommendations, is actually seeing if they can work with the teacher(s) in question. The downside is a)they may not even get into the school or b)some or all of the teachers they chose didn’t indicate they wanted to teach them even if the student is offered admission.The other advantage might be doing a sample lesson before even applying, to try and get a feel for the program itself. If a program has relatively few instructors in what you are doing, if the 1 or 2 teachers don’t seem a match, why would you want even to apply there? If you go and aren’t impressed by the teachers, what does that say about the program (this is a bit more problematic, even great programs have some crappy teachers or even crappy departments…)</p>
<p>Conversely, if you do sample lessons after the audition, a student can focus on the teachers that have indicated interest, so they won’t be wasting time. Downside is could be none of the teachers who indicate interest match the student, and potentially if only 1 or 2 teachers shows an interest, the student may decide not to go there…</p>
<p>In terms of importance, I would say it is up there from what I know, simply because having a teacher you can work with is so, so important, it is the heart of the whole thing, and this is one way to find that teacher other then serendipity i.e by luck getting matched with the right teacher.</p>
<p>My daughter did her sample lessons after she received her acceptances, and the lessons were a crucial factor in her decision about which school to go to and which teacher to request. When we were visiting colleges before starting the application process, we did not even know about sample lessons and also visited many of the schools in the summer when few faculty were around. The next opportunity for lessons would have been at auditions but my daughter felt it would add unwanted stress to her audition weekends, and the couple of times we did try to schedule a lesson during audition weekends the faculty member was too busy (one was going out of town right after auditions, another simply did not respond to my daughter’s e-mail). Having lessons after acceptances came in did mean that we had to travel back to those schools, but by then she had narrowed it down to her top 2 choices so only did lessons at those schools. I think there are pros and cons to all of the different timing possibilities but I do agree that sample lessons are extremely important before making a final choice of which school to attend. And to answer the OP’s question, as others have said it’s best to e-mail the teacher directly to request a lesson rather than calling the department.</p>
<p>Could this be an issue of instrument? I know the practice is very common for strings and piano. My son did sample lessons for both undergrad and grad. In high school, he probably had 6 or 8. All were arranged directly with the teacher, one of whom was at BU. The lessons were critical in helping him decide where to apply and who he wanted to study with.</p>
<p>I think for a performance major who is serious about improving their playing, finding a good studio teacher is crucial and having a lesson with a teacher is the best way to determine if there is a good fit. I think most of the top prospective performance majors will have had lessons with many potential teachers at summer programs or master classes (which is just a public lesson, although often less than an hour in length), so the “sample lesson” is not the only way to get information about fit. </p>
<p>For someone who will be majoring in music ed or music theory, the private teacher fit is not as much of a make-it-or-break-it phenomena. </p>
<p>I think that the sample lesson is not as common at less competitive schools or at schools that tend to draw from a limited geographic area. Our local university music department is good, but the majority of students entering it would never have had a sample lesson (although this varies with instruments: the saxophone teacher actively seeks out talented high school students and the horn teacher already teaches all of the good local horn students; the top piano teacher would probably view a sample lesson as giving any unfair advantage). My point is that institutional culture does vary considerably. The majority of people posting on this board have students aiming towards the top third of music schools.</p>
<p>Certainly as many others have mentioned, the ordinary way to arrange for the sample lesson is directly with the teacher–department secretaries usually have nothing to do with sample lessons (and those that live in their sheltered office world may be unaware of them and treat any person asking about them as if they were an alien!).</p>
<p>I don’t think it’s instrument-specific. My daughter is a vocalist, like OP’s son, and I know that it is common practice for voice faculty to give sample lessons at most schools. Audition weekends can be very busy, however, though I know many voice applicants have their sample lessons then. As for BU, my daughter e-mailed only one teacher there before auditions to try to schedule a lesson but she never replied and because my daughter felt uncomfortable with the idea of lessons during audition weekend she decided to wait. However, I know at least one other vocalist who did have a lesson at BU while there for her audition. After my daughter was accepted to BU, she e-mailed 3 teachers there about lessons, all 3 replied, she had lessons with two of them, it really helped cement her decision to go to BU (she had come away from audition day with a very favorable impression of the school) and helped her decide which teacher to request.</p>
<p>I agree with many of the responses: Sample lessons are an invaluable way to really get a sense of the chemistry with a teacher. In fact, a few sample lessons even when the chemistry is bad will help to determine what kind of teacher/studio you should be considering. Do be sure that the contact (whether via email or phone) is between the prospective student and the teacher, not between parent and teacher! The close parental involvement with teachers through early lessons and high school is definitely NOT a part of the ongoing process in college! For us the fees went from $0 to $150. Just bring a check and ask at the end of the lesson. Also lesson times varied, from a full 45-50 minute lesson, to a real “sample” of 20 minutes and some conversation. (that one cost $0.)
We found that sometimes a department secretary could steer us towards a teacher to contact, but generally faculty are listed on websites, and of course, word of mouth, recommendations from current teachers, etc. are all helpful. DD’s high school instrumental teacher reached out for with an introductory email to a few teachers .</p>
<p>Beware that some teachers will not accept cheques for sample lessons: I have heard of very respectable-looking parents with cheques being sent to the nearest bank machine! Come prepared with a large wad of cash in addition to your chequebook. </p>
<p>As well, I think that it is fine for parents to be involved in the communication with the teacher. I know that some parents are insistent that all college-app communication be exclusively between the student and the college, but often this is just not practical or the child is not yet mature/responsible enough for communcations which have very high stakes (and yes, I know the student is just months away from having to do all of this on their own, but once the student has been accepted and granted their financial awards, the stakes for any individual communication are tiny). </p>
<p>While I would suggest that any email originate from the student (but with parental proofreading), I think that it would be wise to have the parent around for the last few minutes of the sample lesson, when possible. Often this is when delicate questions need to be phrased (e.g. “Is this school a good fit for a player at my level?” or “If I were accepted, would it be possible for me to get in your studio?” or if negative feedback to the prior two questions is given: “What schools or studios do you believe would be appropriate for me?”). </p>
<p>As well, interpreting a teacher’s delicately chosen and nuanced words can require an experienced listener–some teachers are so careful to avoid giving false hope, that they downplay a student’s chances; while others, in their efforts to be encouraging and positive, may leave the inexperienced student with an inflated sense of their chances. Every year there are hundreds of students that end up in both categories after their sample lessons.</p>
<p>On a scale of 1-10, they were a 15 for us.</p>
<p>D3 emailed teachers personally (never the school), saying she was applying and would be visiting the campus on such-and-such a date, and simply asked if it would be possible to meet or have “a lesson.” Mostly the teachers got back to her within a day or two (this was during the school year), sometimes suggesting that if she was on campus at a specific time she could also observe a studio class or something else. Once we had scheduled a visit during a vacation and it didn’t work out, but the teacher remembered her and went out of his way to meet with her during the audition weekend.</p>
<p>I always went with her to find the building but left before she knocked on the prof’s door. She had a blank check with her and always offered to pay (never brought cash and fortunately never needed it!) but all teachers refused the offer.</p>
<p>Since these lessons were often combined with campus tours, D evolved a couple of outfits that were more formal than jeans but not dressy, either. </p>
<p>For D, these experiences were very important in selecting schools once she had the acceptances in hand. In only one case did she receive admissions advice (“don’t come here even if they give you a full scholarship because you won’t be challenged enough”) but in each case, she treated it as a master class and each teacher gave her good advice. </p>
<p>She always emailed a thank you following the lesson.</p>
<p>I’d say that it’s very worthwhile to get a lesson with teachers beforehand to know how well you all work together. I think in every case it would be better to contact the teacher directly, rather than the school. I wonder if any of the cases of getting weird responses have to do with the term “sample lesson?” It makes a lot of sense, but I’ve never heard it outside of CC, and I wonder if it doesn’t throw people off a little, making it seem like you want a free lesson or something. Just a thought.</p>
<p>I would say, though, to be careful about weighing the lesson along with the rest of the strengths of the studios. I’m sure parents and students astute enough to come to this site would be wary of this, but I know young students who are swayed by a teacher at a lesser school having more positive things to say about the student’s playing than one at a better school. It may be obvious to a lot of people, but I think it bears mentioning that a teacher at a school that’s not great will react very positively to really strong players or singers, but that doesn’t mean that they necessarily won’t get the same attention as students who go to a better-reknowned school (but whose talents won’t be as out-of-the-ordinary for the teacher). This is a little tangental, I’ve just known people who have really outstandingly positive lessons at relatively weak music schools, and then, on the strength of the teacher, matriculate and end up bored and unchallenged. </p>
<p>Anyway, back to the main point: Lesson good. Get lesson.</p>
<p>Edit: On reading this back, there are some really awful sentences in here, but I have to go practice. Thanks for slogging through my run-ons.</p>
<p>Lots of excellent replies here. My daughter had sample lessons from all of her prospective teachers. Most were before the auditions, but several were after the auditions. At one school that she seriously considered (IU), she had an early audition and did all of her sample lessons afterwards, at great effort and expense (this involved trips to three different cities, accommodating the schedules of very busy teachers.) And yes, we paid between $0 and $150 for these lessons. It was hard to predict in advance how much the teacher would charge-- there seemed to be no correlation between the prestige of the teacher or program and the fee for the lesson. And yes, it’s important to have both cash and a check on hand. My daughter went into each lesson with a blank check and a wad of 20’s in her backpack. </p>
<p>As for the odd experience reported by MrFritz and the OP-- we did find that nomenclature was somewhat tricky when asking for a sample lesson. My daughter never referred to them as "sample lessons’ (even though that is what they were) in her communication with teachers. She asked if she could “play for them.” That left it open for them to offer a lesson, or a brief audience, or whatever they wanted, no strings attached. Something about “sample lesson” sounds like the student is evaluating them, and not vice-versa, which while partially true, could be a bit of an ego-wound.</p>
<p>An amusing story about the somewhat daunting quest for these trial lessons: my daughter had recommendations from her private teacher for several teachers at the conservatory which she now attends. Teacher A was one of her private teacher’s former teachers; he is a famous teacher, but was on the verge of retirement. He does not use email, and despite heroic sleuthing we never managed to nail down his phone number. My daughter wrote him a letter and send it to his postal box at the college in November 2009. Meanwhile, she contacted his son, a well-known teacher in his own right, who is on faculty at this conservatory, but not as a private teacher. She had a lesson with Teacher A’s son. They clicked quite well, and he offered to teach her at the other conservatory where he is full-time faculty, and to let her know his dad’s decision about retirement as soon as he found out. He called her the day before applications were due, and told her that his dad was formally retiring and would not have a studio the following year. </p>
<p>Meanwhile my daughter had a sample lesson with Teacher B. It was a good match-- she is now happily in his studio.</p>
<p>Fast forward exactly a year and a week: November 2010. My daughter was woken at 9 AM in her dorm room by a call from Teacher A, who had returned from abroad and collected his (probably very large) pile of mail from the conservatory mailbox. He read her letter, noting the date but not the year, and was calling back in what he naturally assumed to be a timely manner to talk to her about her application to the conservatory (where she was now fully immersed as a freshman.) It started out an extremely confusing conversation for both of them!</p>
<p>The point of this story is just to illustrate that if a teacher ignores your email or letter, it may have nothing to do with you or the teacher’s interest in teaching you. Sometimes communications are just plain difficult, even in this day and age. We also dealt with a teacher who only communicates by FAX and another one who did not receive our daughter’s or anyone’s email from the university web contact form for weeks because of a broken link (she called right away when she finally got the message-- and by then my daughter had given up on trying to contact her.)</p>
<p>In thinking about the nomenclature for requesting the lesson, son used “private” lesson in his requests to the teachers. He emailed them explaining that he was a HS senior interested in performance/music ed and would like to schedule a private lesson with them. He went in with a check but fortunately we never had to pay for the lessons. A great side benefit was that he had his playing critiqued by several teachers and incorporated many of their suggestions into his technique. As son noticed, each one looked for something a little different when working with him plus it increased his confidence since he became used to playing and being critiqued by others…</p>
<p>Just one comment to add to all the great info: I would recommend lessons prior to applications. We did extensive trips in the junior year, looking at schools and having lessons with various teachers at each school. My D eliminated numerous schools based on the trips and the lessons. That said, she didn’t apply very many places but had an exact idea of who she wanted to study with and knew what they thought of her. We never had a problem setting up a lesson. We always asked about cost upfront so that we were covered. And yes, we did encounter a teacher who required cash, not a check and sent me to the ATM. FYI: We did do a voice lesson at BU and had no problems setting it up.</p>
<p>@OP - are you talking about schools with a BM or BA? The school with the BA didn’t know what we were talking about at all. </p>
<p>Summer before senior year, when we contacted schools, it took us a while to get hold of the right people for setting up the sample lessons. It came down to reaching the teacher directly in most cases, and some are better at responding to email than others. Sometimes, we had to be persistent to get a response.</p>
<p>As others have said, it’s crucial; if you can do the lesson prior to applying, you may decide not to apply there.</p>
<p>Initially, we didn’t understand the importance, but, we kept reading about it here. So we did a few local ones, immediately saw the value, and scheduled as many others as we could (based on distance). For the far-away schools, she decided to apply without having met the teacher, and had a lesson during the audition visit, just prior to the lesson.</p>