ND’s business school is very highly regarded for undergraduates and is a target for recruiting by investment banks, MBB, and some buy-side investors. The average starting salary for Finance from ND is $100,000 in 2022 with heavy placement into the best banks and many buy-side firms.
OSU, Indiana, and Purdue are not as highly regarded as ND and student quality is highly variable. Almost no students from those programs will place into buy-side roles and a much smaller percentage will go to elite employers.
The ND competitive set for undergraduate business is Georgetown, Michigan, Virginia - the non-Ivy elites with business schools. Wharton is a class of its own.
I can’t find it. But if I have the right chat, OP is starting in engineering. But might be thinking econ.
This tells me the student is 17 and really hasn’t a clue as to where they might end up. They might find a love of either of those or something totally different.
At 17/18, it’s hard to know. And certainly hard to project their field of future employment.
For the two examples I sighted, it is true that they are ranked as high or better than ND, at least based on some available rankings for 2023. I personally know a grad from Fisher with that outcome. ND may be a fine school, but there are options as good or better for business (and engineering) at half the price.
I’m pretty late to this party but OP’s circumstances are very similar to that of my family except I have 3 kids and the first is in this admissions process now. I grew up poor to lower middle-class and put myself through college and law school - both public as I was cost conscious. Growing up with little made me frugal and I’ve never spent nearly as much as I earned. Our family will get no financial support except maybe when all 3 kids are in school at the same time if they all go private. I have the money to send all 3 to privates w/o loans but it will hurt. I have not saved $1.2m if they all go to privates (pretty sure it will cost more than that by the time no. 3 is done).
My savings calculations were always based on UCLA v USC as I’m in SoCal. I did not save enough into the 529 despite everyone telling me college inflation far outpaces regular inflation. 10 years ago, USC was $62k v. UCLA at $31k - so a 2:1 difference. Next year, SC will be $90k v. $38k for UCLA. The cost of privates is accelerating much faster than the publics - at least in CA. I’m pretty sure SC will be over $100k/year by the time my oldest is done and I shudder to think what it will be when no. 3 is done. So my guess is the difference for my oldest is around $220-240k.
I’ve had many discussions with the kids since before high school about the value propositions of private v public schools. I told them the choice is theirs if they want to go the private route and think it is worth it - especially since they’ve worked very hard through school. But I told them that I’ll give them 80% of the difference between the full private option v if they go public, or to a school that will give them a lot of money. The gift will come in the way of paying for part of grad school, or if they forgo that, then a down payment on a house later on.
My son got into UCLA and several other UCs - we have great choices that are affordable. SC and several privates made the decision easier for him when they rejected or WL him. Like many, we are waiting on a bunch of schools today including Ivies but given the denials so far, we aren’t holding our breath. He got into Emory and likes it a lot but I’m not sure he likes it enough to overcome the cost difference. He might go private if he gets into an Ivy or Georgetown for business. He knows how much grad school will cost him and he is aware of how crippling student debt can be. But the choice is his and he’ll have to make a calculated decision.
That’s one to look at, but a quick search will give many other rankings by other methods, all pretty consistent on this outcome. I have even seen Purdue Krannert ranked above ND for business too. One really needs to visit these schools to make sure there is a fit. But for the point of the post being “difficulty justifying the cost”, I think it’s pretty hard to do so in these cases, unless there is money to burn…
But the destination reports aren’t clear for a number of reasons. Sometimes a low proportion of students complete those. Sometimes students lie about their starting salary, because, well, people. Sometimes the data include just salary. Sometimes the data include salary plus signing bonus. Sometimes the data include salary plus signing bonus plus 100% of the first year’s bonus potential. So…definitely not good/consistent enough data to make decisions on (but I’m not saying don’t look at it either because the types of jobs grads are getting and at what companies is quite helpful).
That’s not constructive advice. Do you have reason to believe the Notre Dame data is more statistically biased than other data? If not, then it’s still a reliable predictor of differences across schools.
Huh? I never said anything about ND’s data relative to any other school’s data.
Across all the first destination reports I stand by my comments. The salary data is unreliable because no one fact checks it, nor does one know what it includes (salary/signing bonus/first year bonus potential).
Your response was statistical nonsense about bias in data. I responded to that.
The differences in these reports are statistically reliable unless the ND data is more biased than the data from other schools, which you have no reason to assume.
Remember why this thread started - is the cost worth it? Their price is not some qualitative measurement as compared to others. Nor are their sports team failures lol
The financial aid offer was based on past financial data provided, but Notre Dame re-evaluates need based aid annually. The OP thinks that their net price will increase despite being in a position of reduced income from job losses and their plan is to live off savings and if they did so off of the unprotected savings assets (instead of retirement savings) they would be reducing the two most important factors in determining EFC.
It’s clear to me that if Notre Dame were the same price as other options or cost less than a state flagship which is the case for many middle class families, these parents wouldn’t be hesitating.
But can they be sure they have correctly calculated that difference without having reviewed their new circumstances with the financial aid office?
They believe their costs at Notre Dame will increase, but it’s possible their costs could decrease in future years with lower annual income, savings outside of retirement spent down, paying off a mortgage, and the opportunity to move more assets into retirement accounts.
"The Office of Financial Aid is committed to a thorough and personal review of each family’s individual circumstances as the basis of determining a student’s financial aid eligibility. We also recognize that family circumstances can change unexpectedly, affecting a family’s ability to contribute toward educational expenses.
Your financial aid is based upon income from two years prior to the start of the academic year. If your family’s circumstances change after receiving your Financial Aid Notification, you may request a second review of your financial aid by completing the Change in Circumstances Form. The following are examples of changes in circumstances that may be considered:
Significant loss of income due to termination or change in employment
One-time/non-recurring income
Unreimbursed medical expenses
Extended family support
Parent educational debt
The following are not considered changes in circumstances:
Matching financial aid eligibility from other universities or colleges
Student or parent(s) who does not wish to borrow to cover educational expenses
Parent(s) refusal to contribute to educational expenses
Parent(s) payment of student loans for older sibling
Expenses such as credit card debt, wedding expenses, sports, enrichment activities, home improvement projects, etc."
But would the daughter? All they really said was that they enjoyed the ND visit and it was expensive. They really haven’t opined on where the others fit in, other than they’re cheaper.
These threads are always the same. Posters fail to set budget expectations, get sticker shock, ask “is it worth it,” only to stir up a predictable, heated debate, and then ghost out, probably for fear of retribution from one side or the other.
