<p>My son has been admitted to ND with EA, but with the economy being in a severe downturn, we will NOT pay $50K/yr for ND but willing to pay $35K/yr , so this is about a $15K "premium" to send my son to ND.</p>
<p>We will not qualify for any FA but it financially foolish for us to take on debt and have my son take on debt (probably would be about $50K for him after 4 years, and for us it would be $50K). I am assuming the 4% tuition and R&B increases a year.</p>
<p>I wonder if any other parents are reaching the same conclusion, that the in-state school is a good deal and then we would not have ANY debt once he graduates.</p>
<p>He has been accepted into U of Michigan honors program.</p>
<p>Any comments from parents?</p>
<p>I wonder if ND will be willing to "bargain" this year? I think elite private universities are going to be "IN SHOCK" this year with very low yield rates.</p>
<p>I'm not a parent, but I'm in the same position as your son. I got into ND EA and don't qualify for FA. As much as I love Notre Dame, I don't think it's worth being in debt for 20+ years. I have a full ride to Creighton University (Jesuit school in Nebraska), and even though it's not as amazing as Notre Dame, getting out of school debt-free seems like a pretty good idea.</p>
<p>My DS did not apply to ND - but we are also looking at the cost difference between an very good instate public with merit $$$ such that he could not only graduate without debt, but have extra funds for grad school, and the privates where our EFC is near 35K. 10K year for instate public versus 35K for private.</p>
<p>I'm wondering when you say you have no FA what are you basing that on? Are you using your EFC and assuming no aid? Just trying to understand the system.</p>
<p>I’m curious to know when you arrived at the decision that you would NOT pay the ND tuition, after all it’s been around $50,000 for the last couple years and well above $35k for some time. Not wanting to pay versus unable to pay is a big difference. And I really don’t understand how the economic downturn should coincidentally diminish the value of an ND education.</p>
<p>Did you already hear from ND regarding financial aid – including scholarships, grants, etc. or are you making an assumption that your EFC and son’s grades take you out of consideration? So many parents and kids never bother to apply for scholarships, it’s bewildering. If you don’t bother to apply for FA you sure wont have much of a negotiating position to bargain with them later.</p>
<p>We live in California and our D applied to a couple UC schools as both an academic and financial safety so I get the notion of graduating debt free. If she gets into ND we intend to do everything to ensure she can go.</p>
<p>It is a tough decision, I graduated with $100,000 of debt from ND, so I understand how it is difficult. It is a HUGE decision. However, it is GOOD debt, watch any financial show and you will see that. While your child is in school you do not have to make payments and I believe there is not interest, not sure on that though, but the payments at least can be deferred. The rates are about as low as they get, in a normal market not that much higher than inflation. It is not expensive debt. College is an investment and you have to decide if a ND education and experience is worth that much more than somewhere else. For me, it was, but it isn't for everyone.</p>
<p>Also, with grad school it all depends on what you are doing. Yes, you have to pay for law, medical, etc. However, this isn't true for all types of grad school. I am a PhD student in Psychology now and have a tuition waiver and stipend, so I get paid to go to school :). I will never make M.D. or J.D. money, however.</p>
<p>We had the same issue 2 years ago and decided it was worth it to spend the $. I think everything we heard about the ND alumni network helping grauduates be "set for life" convinced us that while it seemed like a big difference in cost now, it would give our S an edge later. -Besides the fact he loved the school more than any other. Do we like paying that payment every month...?-no way. However, the alumni connection things actually started to pay-off after one year -both people hiring him for summer jobs mentioned that ND was connected to them in some way. It's a sacrifice but our kid loves it and appreciates how lucky he is.</p>
<p>We live in CA and get nothing for financial aid because of income. I tried to appeal our FA, even sent a cost of living budget....they laughed. It's the only thing about ND I am aggravated with.</p>
<p>Dadaffour:
Have you ever looked at the financial aid available to Notre Dame students? By your mention of the word "scholarships" and "son's grades" in the same sentence, I highly doubt it. </p>
<p>Notre Dame does not award academic merit awards; the entire scholarship program is based on financial need. Therefore, the original question is still a valid one for families that are "able to pay", but not willing. In fact, I'd say the question is even more important; lower income families who aren't able to pay are given extensive financial aid, making it a non-issue, while higher income (not wealthy) families are often forced to decide between Notre Dame and a slightly lower prestigious state university to the tune of about $30,000 a year. Further, many of the students admitted to Notre Dame receive full tuition scholarships to other universities, making the decision even more difficult. </p>
<p>I would recommend against blaming the students in such families for laziness: you clearly don't understand how the scholarship process works at Notre Dame.</p>
<p>From what I have heard, Notre Dame is very fair with their distribution of need-based financial aid (the only type of FA at ND). Personally, I prefer this. What is the point of giving merit money when clearly everyone accepted should be eligible for that since ND is tough on its applicants? </p>
<p>The downturn of the economy does not suddenly give people with financial means the ability to say that they don't want to pay their share.</p>
<p>My family's EFC was more than we expected, but I have decided that I am willing to take on student loans if need be.</p>
<p>As sort of a non-partisan defense of dadoffour, I think what he was driving at was the wealth of scholarships unaffiliated with academic institutions that are up for grabs for students if you take the time to research and apply. Everything from your local Knights of Columbus precinct to state Congress level organizations often offer smaller tuition assistance scholarships (very infrequently full tuition) and are open for students who meet certain criteria or simply decide to apply. While they may seem insignificant, individually, they do add up - 1500 here, 5 grand there, and eventually you're paying half of what you would normally pay. His suggesting this does not demonstrate unforgivable ignorance of Notre Dame's Financial Aid process, but merely offering a different alternative.</p>
<p>You haven't mentioned how you know what your FA will be. I would encourage you to fill out the CSS and FAFSA in either way as this is what ND and others use to build a "package" for its students. You never know-and you may be surprised what ND will do for your student. They were somewhat generous with my daughter, who by all calculations wasn't eligible for any aid. Give it a try and then with all your information, make your decision. That said, I think we would have worked nights to pay for ND. In my humble opinion, it's worth every cent. There is no place like it...</p>
<p>At this point MiPerson, I think you have in effect answered your original question. I also highly doubt that ND is going to bargain with you on tuition cost, and I think you know this. The cost of tuition is close to $50,000 at most selective PRIVATE universities. So, since I believe that you are an alum, it should come as no surprise to you regarding the cost. Do I condone the cost? Absolutely not! However, you must surely have recognized thru the years what the cost of attending was going to be when your student would be applying. It has, after all, risen each year that our own student has been in attendance. And, as much as you or your student want to attend ND, it is very much a personal, financial decision that you must make. Yes, I suspect all colleges with the price tag of $50,000 are going to see some interesting numbers if the economy does not improve. Is it worth attending ND? There again, I believe it is a personal opinion. And, right now, these colleges can afford to charge this much tuition based on the fact that there have been those that can afford to pay. There is nothing wrong with Michigan. And, surely you must have considered that ND might not be an option should your student be accepted because of the financial constraints. You must think already that ND is worth the cost; why did your student apply? And if indeed you attended many years ago, I suspect that perhaps the cost seemed high even then. Private schools cost more than publics--. My spouse's father spent almost $5,000/yr to attend Penn in the 70's. That seemed like a king's ransom then but community college costs more than that now. Spouse thinks it was worth it!</p>
<p>I would encourage you to complete the Financial aid forms--as a previous poster mentioned, you might be surprised. I wish you luck in your decision regarding ND--I know it is not easy in this economy but hopefully your student will be successful and challenged wherever he/she attends college.</p>
<p>the point I am trying to make is that the elite colleges did not do a good job in keeping their costs under control and I also suspect a lot of "price signaling" when the HYP's go up, then the rest of the top twenty go up also.</p>
<p>Notre Dame has put in a infrastructure that I believe is too much and could have done a better job on controling their costs.</p>
<p>But the big difference right now, for all of these elite colleges is they and "us" are in very uncertain economic time and like a lot of home owners who overspent on their house, these colleges kept believeing the endowments would go up, donations would go up and that they could always increase their prices above the rate of inflation.</p>
<p>I would like to see these schools announce substantial cutbacks, like what I am seeing in the automotive industry where I work. Cut pay, cut pensions, cut the dining hall expense, cut the overpaying of "research" faculty, extend the school year so more efficient use of the campus, make profs teach 3 courses a semester, get rid of some of the sports teams, etc... and also guarantee what the cost will be for four years</p>
<p>I would like to see these things also; but you must think it is worth it for your student, as your interest spans far greater at schools other than ND. I highly doubt that the price tags for these institutions is going to change for next year. Budgets have already been set--But, who knows, they may have to make some swift changes in the next few months before the start of the Fall term. Yes, I would also liked to have seen ND institute a set tuition schedule much like George Washington Uni. When you enroll as a freshman, your tuition remains the same for the entire four years (or something like that!). But, ND does not have this type of program and we all know this when we enroll our students. As far as costs, most of these elite schools have had to make improvements to their facilities. I wish ND would would allocate some money on dorms. Updating is definately needed! And as far as research, most of the elite schools all have highly regarded research programs--whether your student attends ND or Duke or Yale. I submit that if you/your student are having issues with regards to how money is spent at these institutions, then perhaps he/she should apply to schools that are more in line with what you are willing to pay. Or apply and apply for financial aid; as I mentioned, you might be surprised with an aid package. And, if you are, will the cost still seem worth it?</p>
<p>If your student decides to attend Michigan, or another state university, you'll soon see what happens when universities start cutting costs. Cutting back on faculty expenses by hiring fewer professors means larger classes, and fewer sections of required courses, making it impossible for some students to graduate in four years. Cutting back faculty salaries and pensions means losing the top scholars to other more forward-thinking institutions, which means, sooner or later, the loss of grant money that funds equipment and research opportunities for undergraduates, the loss of prestige associated with having a top faculty, etc. Cutting back on physical plant expenditures means crumbling dorms, ice-and snow-covered walkways, and students living in dorm common areas because there aren't enough rooms on campus. And which sports teams would you get rid of? Football and basketball bring in many millions of dollars in donations and other revenue, making it possible to offer the so-called "non-revenue" sports for the rest of the students. There are already summer programs on campus -- extending the school year would prevent many students from summer employment and internship opportunities, and would add extra costs (and preclude the university from offering summer camps/programs for high school students).<br>
There are no easy answers. All universities are struggling with cost issues. Families will need to decide which sacrifices are worth making.</p>
<p>I totally disagree with clairmarie statement, U of M is putting in $1.5 billion in new construction (dorms, labs, art mueseum) so they are not "crumbling" , by your comment , I assume you are a student, not a parent payng the bill. The point I want to make is that the "spread" between public and private top schools is getting to be too much, a parents making even good money (no FA) are not going to pay $50K/yr in a down environment. </p>
<p>I feel sorry for kids graduating from some of these top schools, and yes, they worked hard, but now most won't be able to find good jobs, and they will be stuck with a lot of debt.</p>
<p>My dentist has a daughter graduating from Dartmouth, up to 40% of the Dartmouth class was getting jobs on Wall Street, and now ZERO jobs on Wall Street, he is calling his daughter's education a " $200K experiment" , and expects her to come back and live at home.</p>
<p>So what does it matter if the infrastructure is not crumbling but the student graduates with tons of debt? ....and no good job prospects?....except go hide out in grad school and run up more debt?</p>
<p>I know I personally have a choice to make between ND and my state school, but in all honesty I am not worried about cost at all. I'm applying for scholarships and financial aid and I'll see what happens, but I know that I'll end up where God wants me. And even if I don't, He'll sort it out. It's not my bill to pay, it's His haha, and that's what he said from the beginning so I'm really not putting cost as a major factor in my decision. No matter what people say there will always be a job somewhere, so why worry about a bridge before you come to it? I understand where you're coming from MiPerson80, but why not take a risk and rely on God? Life is much more exciting that way :) (And I am joking around here, even though you can't hear it through the internet haha. I should probably just be going to bed now anyways, but whatever...)</p>
<p>Yes, the job market is bleak right now, MiPerson. Hopefully, the economy will turn around as we are all in this together. Maybe your student should just take a gap year and wait until the economy improves or maybe attend college when you think the prices are more in line with what you are willing to pay. You are obviously willing to pay for Duke and Yale and from what you have indicated--degrees from these institutions don't guarantee a job in this market either.</p>
<p>I don't see the big deal about debt, personally. If I love a school and I can go to it, I'm going to go to it. Happiness trumps money. Especially since student debt isn't really bad debt to have...if things go according to plan and Obama puts all of his policy into place, paying off student loans will be simple and pain free. In fact it already is pretty simple to pay off.</p>