<p>^ Would like to point out an entry by Ben Jones (former Assoc. Dir. of Admissions at MIT and currently VP/Comm at Oberlin) written in 2006 about similar things: MIT</a> Admissions | Blog Entry: "It's More Than A Job"</p>
<p>I have a friend who is a private counselor, and have observed a few others, and it's my view that they can be a significant help to some students, especially those with some kind of special needs. The counselors can provide information about various schools (they may have visited a lot of the schools themselves), and they can give the student a reality check that may be difficult to get from an overworked school counselor. I think a parent or student who is willing to do a lot of homework can do a lot of this himself (i.e., by using CC). Our friend gave us some general advice, and some essay tips that were useful in improving my son's essays. She didn't edit or rewrite them, but the advice was good. I think this kind of service is different from somebody who is going to "get you in." As an analogy, a personal trainer might really help you a lot with improving your fitness, but he may not be able to get you onto an Olympics team.</p>
<p>Agree with Hunt. There are skilled and honorable independent counselors out there. Different clients have different expectations and needs. Some students want help with essays, some want help building a list, some want the consultant to be the chief "whip cracker," some want a combination. Some independents offer a "package deal" as well as an "a la carte" menu of offerings. But any parent who believes that an independent counselor will give his kid a leg up at Prestige University XYZ is dead wrong. Despite the high profile of certain consultants, it's my understanding that in the real world, colleges and independent consultants do not communicate. The consultant's role is to help the student prepare the most appropriate college list and the best application possible. Advocating for the student is the high school's job.</p>
<p>Anyone who thinks a good private counselor can't help absolutely any kid substantially has never used one. And let's all keep in mind that College Confidential started as a private counseling service and this incredibly popular site grew out of it.</p>
<p>Flaming people who choose to use one and mention their name sounds defensive. Everyone should feel free to use or not use any professional. I'm not sure why this gets so many backs up when SAT tutors, private sports coaches, private music teachers and all the other professionals giving kids an edge don't. </p>
<p>And please understand, the leg up the give kids has nothing to do with their connections or their talking to the schools or helping explain the grading system at a kid's school. It's coaching to finesse the game just like sports or acting coaching.</p>
<p>And while some may specialize in ivies, in my experience they handle a broad range of kids. Parents want their kid to do the best they can do in this process whether it's Harvard or Quinnapac and whether their kid is the president of everything at their HS or just came out of rehab.</p>
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Anyone who thinks a good private counselor can't help absolutely any kid substantially has never used one.
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<p>It all depends what you mean by "help", hmom. Yes, a good private counselor can "help" a kid build the most appropriate college list and present the best possible application. S/he cannot "help" get little Johnny or Mary into Harvard.</p>
<p>I just want to reiterate that we have seen friends hire private counselors not (primarily) to groom their children's resumes or applications, or to replace grossly inadequate school-based GCs, but more to help eliminate parent-child noise in the process of building a list and getting the applications done and in. I'm sure many of us have had the experience of having a sullen, touchy teenager at home who treats any attempt at communication from parents as a personal threat, and who is openly disdainful of parental cluelessness, but who draws raves from third parties (including teachers) who encounter him or her outside the home for intelligence, openness, courtesy, etc. And I'm sure many of us have known teenagers who were just super kids with everyone but one or both parents. Not to mention parents who have a hard time not projecting their own insecurities and points of pride on to their kids. Sometimes having a third party involved -- especially one who brings something to the table in terms of credibility and expertise that both parent and child respect -- can make things go smoothly that might otherwise not go at all.</p>
<p>I know of one current situation like this where everyone would agree that the independent counselor has been a roaring success, and no actual results are in yet. The fact that the kid got engaged in the process, made choices, developed an intelligent list and strategy, and submitted quality applications on time was success enough, because a few months ago none of that seemed certain to happen, or rather certain to happen without stomach-destroying stress on all parties involved (including siblings and friends). No one is worried that this kid won't have decent choices -- the kid is a great student (something the parents don't always fully appreciate; they tend to err on the side of trying to hold their child back to avoid stress), and while they all care about prestige to some extent their definition of prestige goes way beyond the Ancient Eight. The worry -- not entirely unreasonable -- was that their family dynamics would get in the way of that, and the counselor solved that problem.</p>
<p>As I mentioned way back in this thread, we'll be calling on Dave Berry again for a reality check. Schools that would have been fabulous targets/matches five years ago are toss-ups in the current environment, and many of those schools are seen as "back ups" for those shooting for the tippy-top. He is truly interested in them, so we'd like his thoughts on how to best accomplish that without groverling, piles of unmarked bills, new buildings, etc.</p>
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It's coaching to finesse the game just like sports or acting coaching.
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<p>Perhaps my objection is that I don't see applying to college as a "game," the playing of which needs to be "finessed."</p>
<p>Sports and acting coaches, on the other hand, are working to hone actual skills.</p>
<p>I've never hired a counselor, and won't , but I think if you have the dough it's a good idea, for some people.</p>
<p>After going through selective college admissions with two kids, and myself all those years ago, I can identify appropriate target colleges for kids like mine as well as anybody, I'm convinced of that. I saw exactly the procedure my D1s private school counselor employed, I can replicate it exactly. And I know a lot about schools, from CC and various experiences.</p>
<p>What I can't do that well is get my kids to actually buy in to the process, and do what they need to do, when they need to do it. They won't listen to me. Maybe they would listen to some "expert", even if they were just telling them the same thing I was telling them.</p>
<p>D1 wrote all her college essays right at the deadline, with little outside review; maybe if she had to submit them to someone else beforehand this wouldn't have happened.</p>
<p>We have friends who are paying some counselor $20k to deal with their son. The counselor is getting him to do actually useful, productive things in the summers. My son is playing computer games all summer, and won't listen when we say he should be doing something more constructive.</p>
<p>He's not doing enough useful stuff outside of school; maybe somebody else can get his butt into gear. Not just for college, but for himself. college would just be an excuse, from my perspective. But we can't get him to do anything more. Maybe someone else can.</p>
<p>As for private vs. public: who knows. In their early years we sent our kids to a great NYC private school, which had tremendous records for college placement. We had to leave town. but we stayed in touch with some people from there. Their kids wound up going to the same types of places my kids eventually went to. D2 did better, placement-wise, coming from a public, than D1 did coming from a regionally elite midwestern private. given their respective abilities. The privates were better in a number of ways, educationally, but not sure about this aspect, in the end.</p>
<p>Some other things I don't really know are: whether its "better" for him to take course "x," vs. course "Y"; implications of associated grade trade-offs, how grades from his school are viewed by admissions people.</p>
<p>I don't know what the process is today if not a game and everyone here on CC is a player.</p>
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Some other things I don't really know are: whether its "better" for him to take course "x," vs. course "Y"; implications of associated grade trade-offs, how grades from his school are viewed by admissions people.
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<p>Here's what my daughter did. She took the classes she wanted to take in high school. She spent her free time doing what she wanted to do (albeit with support and encouragement from her parents). She applied to some colleges and was accepted to the one she wants to attend. She is looking forward to being a college student in the fall.</p>
<p>No gamesmanship in this story.</p>
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And again, maybe times have changed, but Ted O'Neill at UChicago used to send out notes long before official decisions to kids whose essays were outstanding--about 6 to 8 a year. I've never heard of a kid getting one of those notes and then getting a rejection.
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<p>Going by memory, last year, one CC parent(Je<em>ne</em>sais_quoi) wrote her daughter received such notes that her essays were oustanding but did not get admitted to UofC.</p>
<p>fendrock, if we leave him to do whatever he wants he will be up in his room playing video games all day. Actually, that is what he does. My other kids didn't do that, and I think he would be better off doing some other things. For himself, not for college. FWIW, the course thing came up because he was sinking in Honors math, and had to decide whether to get out or persevere. If he just took what he wanted, without regard to any iimplications whatsoever, he wouldn't take any course offered by the high school whatsoever. He would just drop out.</p>
<p>I'd rather he have the most options he is capable of having, should he actually decide to make use of them down the road.</p>
<p>It will be up to him of course, but If introducing a 3rd party can shake him off the computer that would not be a bad thing at all, in my book. It's great that you supported etc, whatever your daughter was doing; I felt the same way about my daughters but can't say the same about this one. I'm certainly not a supporter or encourager of his video game time. If that makes me a bad parent, so be it.</p>
<p>Those notes are called "likely letters" at many schools. Search for the term and you'll find many, many threads about them.</p>
<p>Likely letters have dominated Ivy athletics over the past year or two. These likely letters are the only thing that makes Ivy athletics competitive with other Division 1 schools that can offer scholarship. Hockey, Lacrosse, Baseball, and Basketball are sports that benefit from these letters. However, it is clear that Hockey and Lacrosse have gained the most from this unique process. I feel that athletic scholarships should play a role in Ivy athletics...anyone on the same page?</p>
<p>monydad, I sympathize, but I don't think a college counselor would be the best way to deal with your situation.</p>
<p>For the money you'd spend, you could send your son away for the summer (and away from the video games), for example.</p>
<p>I recall they were not likely letters but rather notes or letters that the AOs liked the essays.</p>
<p>we sent him away he made us pick him up early, he hated it. It was a waste of our money, he got nothing out of it.
And as I said we aren't hiring a college counselor.</p>
<p>Maybe a college counselor is not the most effective way of dealing with this, but as I said it certainly seems to be helping our friends' kid, who is now making productive use of his time. Entirely due to advice of his counselor. Forget college, this would benefit him personally as I see it.</p>
<p>monydad, Taking away the gaming systems/cutting off access to the computer is free. We did it with our kid. Now he doesn't have much time for them because he learned to fill his time more productively. </p>
<p>You have far more influence in your son's life than any outsider you can hire.</p>
<p>monydad -- well, of course teens have many things they have to do that they don't want to do, as well as spend plenty of time doing things that they shouldn't, and it is frustrating as a parent to have to deal with it.</p>
<p>But, in the end, kids have to find their own motivation. And they just might not be motivated to achieve at the level parents would prefer.</p>
<p>[crossposted with pugmadkate, and I agree with her about parental influence]</p>