Dirty Secrets of College Admissions

Parents Forum
501

<p>Please don't eschew volunteering and the inherent value in the task. Who else drove the carpool all those years? Who else went on the field trips, hosted the bake sales and made sure teams had snacks? As the kids got older, who brought in speakers for assemblies or planned/orchestrated and implemented the fundraising events for the school, the local community and the school community? Who went around and gathered commitments for silent and live auctions, figured out how to put it all online and raise over 1.5 million for financial aid initiatives? I can assure you the world would be a very different place without the unselfish contributions of the perennial volunteer. The list is almost endless and while it may follow a path that correlates to my children's ages, just because I wasn't paid for such things does not make me or that work less appreciated or valuable. I am not a lady who lunches -- although I do eat lunch! And I take offense at the suggestion that I am not using my degree(s). In fact, some of the women I work with are some of the smartest and most educated women I know - including those who hold down 40 hr a week jobs! As often as my husband makes deals on the golf course, I can point to several instances where the same has happened to me on the tennis court! And just because I do not have a w-2 to prove it, to say I offer very little to the world in which we live is a gross underestimation of what the SAHM's actually get done while other working mom's work. One is not worth less than the other and part of the problem, as I see it, is the judgements of what the other's life entails. </p>

<p>I surely know the type who have maids, nail appts and seem to go from one workout activity to the next. But these women are found in both the working world and at home... those who care more about the appearance of perfection over the fulfilled life. And I know plenty of working moms who spend so much time away that I can barely figure out why the heck they ever thought of having children in the first place if they were going to put the raising of them in the hands of so many others. There are extremes, but for most of us -- working and SAH mom's, we do the best we can with what we have and know at the time and should be supportive of one another.</p>

<p>If more working women appreciated just how much work, organization and dedication was in the world of volunteers, perhaps not having the w-2's would help those of us who have done it all those years land the jobs they're very capable of doing if they were ever given the credit they deserved.</p>

<p>oops.. didn't mean to rant, but Ag54 hit a nerve. I feel better now :)</p>

502

<p>Modadunn: You can breathe now.....and don't worry about it....there are plenty of people around who appreciate what SAHM's do....you don't need validation from a website (I hope.....)......
I stopped paying attention to this never-ending topic about 5 years ago.....
and for what it's worth....I know SAHM's who have raised amazing kids and those that have raised drug dealers....I know 40 hr/week Mom's who have raised amazing kids and those that have raised kids who have dropped out of high school......</p>

503

<p>ag54, plenty of SAHM in my Northeast suburban neighborhood as well.</p>

<p>In my mind, if the husband makes a good income, there is a much greater chance of the wife staying home.</p>

<p>The prevailing culture values career over family, but I would guess that there are many pockets of the reverse scattered throughout the country. Perhaps in some cases religious values result in a greater rate of SAHMs (certainly the conservative ones who homeschool). If couples have large families, it is often logistically simpler to have someone home (although I do have a high school classmate who is a pediatrician, married to a doctor, and they have five children).</p>

<p>Not all women are fortunate enough to find work which is of more value to them than staying home; This essay rang true for me:</p>

<p>I</a> Choose My Choice! - The Atlantic (July/August 2008)</p>

<p>
[quote]
“[Friedan] did not tell readers whether it was more fulfilling to be a maid, a babysitter, a factory worker, a clerk, or a prostitute than to be a leisure-class housewife.” It’s a point that keeps having to be made, though. And hooks’s list doesn’t even include the legions of colorless office jobs that most women endure, “real” jobs that trap them from eight to five in a cramped cubicle under hideous lighting.

[/quote]
</p>

504

<p>I didn't mean to hit your nerve ;) I was just writing about my situation.</p>

<p>I was the person in your first paragraph, chairing auctions, chairing fun runs, pta president, booster club president, room mom, cookie chairman, the list could go on and on and on - over my volunteer years, I have made more money for our schools, church, and charity organizations than I care to print. </p>

<p>I was that mom who didn't know how to say no, the one who everyone said, "Ask >>> to do it, she's great at that!" And, I would jump right in. It just became too much. I found that I was working many more than 40 hours a week in these endeavors, and got to a point where I wanted to get paid. No slam to moms who stay home, I just didn't want to do it anymore. They used me up and I decided to tattoo NO on my forehead. </p>

<p>BUT, the reason that I was always asked is because of the multitudes that you describe in the second paragraph that make up the bulk of the women in my area - the nail appointments, the tennis lessons, the workouts, etc. They rely on the few who say yes to take care of all the fund raising, the staffing of the school office, the field trips, etc. And, the few who say yes get sick of being used up.</p>

<p>I have friends who give me continuous c**p because I can't leave on a Thursday to go antiquing in the hill country with them or to tennis camps. I cannot tell you how many times I've heard, "Why don't you just quit working, you're no fun anymore!" Talk about being supportive ;)</p>

505

<p>Fair enough.. I am now to the point (24 year old, senior and freshman in HS) that I am learning to say "no" and emphatically so. Problem is, I would like a "real" job that pays me for my brilliance instead of uses me for it. :)</p>

<p>Or maybe it's that I am bored by it all. I used to like the constant change up and the new challenge that would come in certain endeavors. Now I feel like I've been there and done that. And too.. I am a tad jaded. I see the "young" moms come in and they have so many delusions about their perfect children and how the hardest years are behind them (aka the toddler years) that I literally laugh out loud. </p>

<p>I agree whole heartedly with Rodney... I know parents of each side of the coin who have raised great and not so great kids. I stand by my statement that we all try to do the best we can with what we have. And I try very hard not to define my self by either the success or the failure of my children, although some days it's easier said than done.</p>

<p>I have made some serious sacrifices to be home with my kids and one of them has been the financial security that would come with knowing that I could even support myself if it all came crashing down tomorrow. And being taken for granted sometimes is more wearing than the judgements that might come from others. As for validation.. that has to come from within, but I would be lying if I didn't admit it was nice to hear sometimes.</p>

<p>Frankly, I am to the point now where I just want my kid to get into college so he can take his laundry somewhere else, where his room can be a mess and I don't have to look at it! (kidding- kinda). And to think that some admissions committee is going to reject him because they got stuck in our airport due to a snowstorm is kinda unnerving. :)</p>

506

<p>I don't know why women fight over this issue. If a woman chooses to work, she is not putting her career over her family. If I woman choose to stay home, she is not sacrificing her career for her family. Only women have these arguments, not men. My only concern comes as a mother of 3 daughters, who need to be well prepared to enter a competitive workforce. If we continue to allow our daughters to think that education and career are optional, we will always see an gender ncome gap and poor women raising children alone.</p>

507

<p>Hi Modadunn.</p>

<p>I definitely value contributions of SAHM's. At times, I have wished I could be one. Especially when the weather is as awful as it is today here in the Northeast.</p>

<p>I teach Women's Studies. Yesterday was our second class. The women were all over themselves to prove how much like guys they are.</p>

<p>I said, "One of my goals for feminism is to help guys to be more like us. I value nurturance."</p>

<p>Hey, I wouldn't worry about the snow storm. Your son is going to have awesome results. I feel it.</p>

<p>This is from another thread, but my S is a Williams soph and despite the "external" essay prompt, the school is really nurturing the deepest parts of himself. He just finished his winter study course: The Philosophy of Aikido. He had to do the physical discipline and use the philosophy to solve a social problem. He was the speech writer for his group. He grew an amazing amount from the course.</p>

508

<p>Agree with everyone that the mommy wars are unproductive... but just to toot the horn of all the working mom's out there who ALSO ran the auctions and drove carpools and planned class trips, etc. And don't think we got any appreciation or validation whatsoever. Except once from a third grade teacher (also a working mom) who greeted me at the door of the classsroom one day very sheepishly to say that she had asked the room mother's NOT to call me to volunteer for whatever they needed that day; she felt that I was always ready to take half a vacation day to volunteer (as did the other working moms if they could) and she felt it was time for the Tennis Mommies to rearrange their schedules a little bit to pitch in.</p>

<p>That was a year that many of the working dad's really pulled their weight so I didn't feel put upon. Nice to see that a Dad can also drive to the fire station, an Indian burial ground, or whatever the outing happens to be.</p>

<p>I never minded volunteering even when the task was thankless or stupid; I wanted my kids to realize that their school was important to us as a family. The tactless comments, "Oh gee, here you are all done up in pantyhose like you're off to run General Motors when you're done setting up the bake sale and the rest of us are in our yoga outfits!" I could have lived without... but it didn't mean that I didn't appreciate the efforts of ALL the parents who volunteered.</p>

<p>However, I have too many neighbors and cousins, SIL's etc. who are now facing 45 or 50 or 55 years old unable to support themselves in the style to which they've been accustomed to regret any of the choices I made. The reality is that it is far more risky to be a SAH parent these days-- no matter how big the partner's paycheck is. My friend who sells real estate in a tony neighborhood in Westchester county NY always marvels at the multimillion dollar homes she walks into which have not a lick of furniture except the beds and a dinette set. The "good stuff" gets sold first so Mom and kids can stay in the marital home (husband long gone to a condo or NYC apartment) and then once reality of taxes, maintenance, oil heat, etc. sets in-- then the house gets put up for sale.</p>

<p>Don't divorce lawyers know arithmetic anymore? Who advises these women to take the house instead of the dough???? Especially if the mom hasn't worked in 15 years and is now trying to get her hours at Macy's increased from part time to full time?????</p>

<p>Rant over. Tough being a child of the '60's having to exist in the cold reality of today!</p>

509

<p>I think there is a bit of a current societal consensus that the successful woman manages career, children, vibrant social life and volunteerism, and that SAHM are slackers because they don't do it all.</p>

<p>Sadly, even people who have worked their whole lives can be laid off in middle age and find it very, very difficult to get employment.</p>

<p>In the end, it is nobody's business but her own what any woman chooses to do. But, in seeking validation of our choices, we tend to compare ourselves (favorably, if possible, with supporting facts and evidence) to others.</p>

510

<p>Here are my thoughts on this...though we certainly have veered from the OP. I am a SAHM and believe me...NOBODY appreciates US!! When we lived in Chicago I was the only one at home- all the kids in the neighborhood were dependent on me when they were sick, needed a ride (everyone was elementary school at that time) when I left everyone appreciated me then. However- at that time in my life it worked for me. I think you can be a good parent and work, and a good parent and stay at home, I think that you can be a disconnected parent and work or stay at home. Most of my friends who work do have house cleaners, eat out, and hired college counselors...I cook, clean, and read CC along with every other book. I will also say though that some people are not meant to stay home- I was one of those (though not southern) girls that dreamt from earliest memories about getting married, having babies and living happily ever after. This was my dream. I do look forward to the days when I can write- volunteer again, work on all my arts and crafts and house projects. But for now I am living my dream of cook, maid, college counselor, vet, and bff to a few who need me!</p>

511

<p>What makes me feel the most insecure and intimidated are the working mom's comments about not being able to do nothing at home all day. I really must be inefficient at doing the laundry, dishes, cleaning, grocery shopping, meal preparation, communicating with schools, helping with homework, chauffeuring, attending children's EC events, etc. I don't do lunch, I don't get my nails done, I don't play tennis, and would never think of myself as having a life of leisure. I do volunteer, but in small and simple ways. My only leisure activity, which I pursue mostly on days when my back is bothering me, is posting on CC.</p>

<p>Oh, and another reason I'm a SAHM: SNOW DAYS!</p>

512

<p>Blossom-I do want to disagree with the riskyness of staying home- budget, living within or below your means doesn't guarentee you won't run into trouble but it does set you up to be prepared when trouble does hit. My mother always worked- she was financially fine when my father died. I haven't worked since my boys were born- my husband has had to prepare accordingly if something should happen to him. We never eat out, we don't drive fancy cars, don't play tennis or golf. My almost 18 year olds got their first xbox this christmas. We do have a plenty- more than plenty but we also sacrafice. I am a regular at TJMax and our consignment shop - I think that SAHM learn some very good lessons about frugality. My kids do go to a private school but I assure you most there whether they are working or not are making sacrafices - not playing tennis.</p>

513

<p>TheGFG -- I know what you mean.</p>

514

<p>As one who has been on and off the SAHM train over the last 18years, I find that the biggest issue I have with SAHM's (at least around these parts) is that they live in a bubble....many, many of my SAHM peers do not read a newspaper, book, or even go online to find out what is going on in the world.....they get their info from "friends" if necessary and only if it impacts their own life.....these were the same people that "jumped" on the presidential election train as late as October, when they all "freaked" out that there was a possibility that Obama was going to succeed......they had NO idea what the issues were, no idea what McCain or Obama had done in the past, no idea, other than the fact that they thought Obama was a Muslim, what either candidate represented....unless it impacted their pocketbook.......I'll shut up now...that's my rant for the day....I spend alot of time alone.....and of course, on CC, especially on snow days....!!</p>

515

<p>Whoa.. and stray we did!! I love women! We definitely don't hold back from talking, especially when it comes to defining ourselves!</p>

<p>BTW.. I agree that men could use a lot more in the nurture department. Certainly writing college essays would have been far easier for my son if he even had the language to write about the depths of who he was. And as I said about Williams, I think it had more to do with writing yet another essay that my son objected to more so than the school. One of my best friends daughter was accepted ED to Williams and it is undoubtedly a great school. My son's AP Bio teacher taught at Williams before coming to teach for us, so if she is any indication of the quality of teaching there, they are a lucky bunch.</p>

<p>The thing is, we're not that far off topic if you think about it. Everyone brings their own experiences and life story to their job. Can we really think that college admissions does not have personalities attached? One just hopes that your kid makes it past the first round to be brought into committee I suppose. So when my son checks off homemaker for who I am, do they automatically assume my kid should have some different qualities than the kid who checks off surgeon? One has to wonder too if the age of the admission's committees has a bearing on what kind of decisions the school makes. I mean, for some it's the way they stay on campus for a few more years, for others they have made it their life's work perhaps. Generationally, I just think there might be some bearing on the discussions taking place. Certainly, this generation is much more color blind than mine ever was - and perhaps ever hopes to be.</p>

<p>And truth is, my hugest advice to my oldest daughter is to never depend on another person to support you. Certainly anyone can lose a job, but it's a lot easier to find one if you've had one. :)</p>

516

<p>I think life is very challenging. There are so many paths and options, and none are perfect or ideal for everyone.</p>

<p>We can agree that we hope each mom has been able to craft a life that is the best option for her and her family.</p>

<p>I have no idea of what I would have chosen if my husband's business could have really supported us. It couldn't. </p>

<p>There have been many days when I wished I didn't have to work, but there have also been many days when I was thrilled with my career because I do love what I do.</p>

<p>I imagine I'd feel the same if I were a SAHM.</p>

<p>I did stay home when the kids were teeny and I am very grateful for the four years at home. I stayed home another year during which I had a sabbatical. It was wonderful fun. I adored every minute.</p>

<p>I know I was incredibly fortunate that my career of college teaching left me so much time at home, particularly during vacations, and my hours were rather easy too, although I had a fair amount of at home work.</p>

<p>I think my work inspired my kids a bit, but I think had I been home full-time I would have inspired them in other ways.</p>

<p>I am sorry that some describe the life of a SAHM in trivializing ways because obviously the values of making and raising a family are central to our human project. The rest is just window dressing.</p>

<p>Sadder to me than the need to work while raising my family is my projected working until 70 because my job traded a pension for an IRA a long time ago, and none of these accounts is very robust. </p>

<p>Work has given me security and purpose and it has also frazzled me and taken a lot out of me. Nothing is ever all one thing.</p>

<p>We all share the common goals of wanting the best for our kids, and we all face similar challenges in life. I think our commonalities far outweigh our differences.</p>

517

<p>
[quote]
And truth is, my hugest advice to my oldest daughter is to never depend on another person to support you. Certainly anyone can lose a job, but it's a lot easier to find one if you've had one.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I imagine that there are VERY few SAHM out there who have NEVER worked.</p>

<p>And I agree that everyone headed off to college should understand that future employment is a big part of the agenda.</p>

518

<p>I always tell my daughters to never count on anyone else to support them and I think both of them have absorbed that lesson. I would have sold my soul to stay at home with the kids for a while when they were little, but I was the breadwinner, so off I went. In some ways, hubbs is a better SAHM than I ever could have been because I'm not good at the driving and errands that are such a big part. It took me many years to feel that I actually was my kids' mother because when the girls were younger, moms in this area just didn't work. Out of my husband's 27 first cousins, I was the only working wife, and my girls lost out on a lot because I was working. I'm very glad that the Walls of Judgment have come down and different choices are respected nowadays, but when my girls were little, we all faced a lot of cruelty and being left out by the SAHMs in this community. There's none of that at all now with my little guy and the class moms and team dads are all as likely to work full time as not.</p>

519

<p>rodney-you do have a point about the SAHM bubble. A primary reason I come on CC is that I enjoy the more intellectual level of discussion it provides.</p>

520

<p>I am currently a SAHM (wasn't always-I could handle working with one child, but two put me over my personal limit). I am not a joiner. I am never on any committee, nor do I organize functions. Nevertheless I am always available to do anything I am asked to do by all you "organizers."</p>

<p>However, I have a very "difficult" older child and I am proud beyond anything that she is fully functioning and getting ready to go to college. There were times when I truly believed that would never happen. I am convinced (I guess I have had to convince myself considering the cost of my undergrad and professional degrees) that had I not given up my career (I did not necessarily have to stay home, but there was no way I could have continued as the high-powered lawyer), my daughter would spend most of her time cowering in a corner.</p>

<p>Anyway, I think the argument is pointless. We all do what we think is best for our families at the time we make our decisions, and no two of us are in precisely the same situation when we make those decisions.</p>