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In most high schools the counselors only know a handful of students, so it seems absurd that they are now required to write a recommendation letter for everyone. I have seen a few favorite students singled out by counselors and helped immensely in the admissions process and I don't think they should have this kind of power or access.
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<p>This is precisely the situation at our HS. All 180 or so kids are all transferred to one counselor for senior year, and that person writes the recs for all of them. I saw my S's GC rec after the whole process was over, and was simply appalled by how poorly done it was. It was a reiteration of a jr year award citation, not updated to include any of the state/national honors achieved jr year. It was riddled with inaccuracies that diminished the accomplishments it actually mentioned. Most importantly, it gave no impression of who he was and did not mention any of the academic choices and personal characteristics that actually made him stand out as an individual amongst his peers. And yet it purported to be a favorable rec. Meanwhile, neither he nor we were able to get appointments with her, while one of the favored few, with parents, literally walked by us into her office.</p>
<p>Colleges didn't know who had taken SAT prep classes. Colleges did not know which parents had hired a professional counselor to package their kid. Yet I read over and over again that it is "assumed" that everyone in certain school districts has taken the prep classes and hired the counselors.</p>
<p>Does any of this matter? When the kids are applying to the same schools and the same regional reps are reading their applications, and it seems as if the school is firmly behind kid A but not so much kid B, yeah, I think it does.</p>
Yes. I was told by a very well known former admissions officer & college counselor that my daughter did not have a chance of admission and that it was a waste of time to apply at the college she now attends, based on my d's test scores. Fortunately my d. relied on her own instincts and aspirations... not some "expert" who "knows" more than the actual truth.</p>
<p>My kids attended both an elite private school and a large public magnet, and I know many families at both schools, at other private and public schools in the area. I am firmly convinced that it doesn't make a lot of difference whether a kid is in the top half of her fancy private school or the top 5% of a less-fancy public -- it's the same kid, and you get about the same result (which of course reflects the sophistication of the family or lack thereof). But to the extent there is a difference, it's better to be in the middle of the class at a really good private school, or a small public magnet that's the equivalent of a really good private school, than near but not right at the top of a larger public. The private schools, at least the ones I know, deliver for those kids. </p>
<p>The top 10-15 kids (that's less than 5%) at my children's public school were absolutely equivalent to their private-school counterparts. No one in the middle of the private school class could have waltzed into the public school and been a superstar, although they would have been seen as strong students just below the top level. But at the public school, the kids going to fancy-schmancy colleges was at most the top 5% of the class, plus a few recruited athletes. </p>
<p>Apart from the factors others have been discussing, the big differences in the college results at the two schools stemmed from three related things: The kids at the private school were, on average, much wealthier, and thus had more options. In part because of that, they made much greater use of ED applications. And, finally, probably 40-50% of the private-school kids went to LACs, including students at all levels of academic success. At the public school, literally only a handful of strong students (<5) chose selective LACs. The fact that so many of them applied ED, and that LACs were as popular as research universities, meant that the private school students stayed out of each other's way to a much greater extent than the public school kids.</p>
<p>"The fact that so many of them applied ED, and that LACs were as popular as research universities, meant that the private school students stayed out of each other's way to a much greater extent than the public school kids."</p>
<p>I find that as well. The public school kids are tending towards the larger, public state institutions. Is it that they aren't aware of the LACs? Maybe tend to stay in-state? Don't know there are other options? Parents not as involved? Don't know enough about financial aid to try for private college admission and see what financial aid is available?</p>
<p>I must admit, though I haven't enjoyed forking out the big bucks for the private school education, my family has benefited from the increased attention (both from the faculty and the college counselor). I don't know that the education has been all that much different from the good honors and AP classes at the public school, but the rest of the "perks" have been financially worth it. </p>
<p>When D1 went through this 4 years ago, I was very disappointed with her lack of ivy admits. I blamed the college counselors for not setting me straight about her probability of admission. D2 was a different story. My eyes were open; we had done this before. We set our sights slightly lower and also knew more about athletic recruiting to go down that path. Had I known then what I know now, I wouldn't have been surprised at D1's results. Needless to say, D2's experience has been much different - less stressful, no surprises, great athletic early admission.</p>
<p>I think the "dirty little secrets" are available to anyone who seeks them out. Experience, discussion, blunt questions - all of these increase one's knowledge of the secrets that are hiding in plain sight.</p>
<p>ellemenope -- about those affluent parents banging on the doors demanding more guidance -- often those are the same people voting down referendums to send more tax monies to the schools.</p>
<p>The counselors at the public school (6 for about 2,200 kids, did both college and general counseling) all sent their kids to LACs, as did the principal. They tried reasonably hard to promote LACs. But it just wasn't in the kids' culture. The few who applied to top-rank LACs tended to be the kids who were demographically similar to the private-school kids. (Although there were some exceptions to that -- my son's final high school girlfriend, the first in her family to go to college at all, chose an LAC, as did a Muslim girl in his class who observed purdah.) Staying close to home was part of it, too, although there are several LACs that would qualify as close to home (and they got about half of the LAC-bound kids). Also, lack of sophistication about merit scholarships. Most of the kids saw their options as either getting into an Ivy/equivalent that would meet need generously or going to a state school that would be financeable. The few who sought scholarships at LACs did very well, but it wasn't how most of the kids were oriented.</p>
<p>Finally, these were city kids at a big school. Most of them were loathe to put themselves in the sticks at an institution smaller than their high school. (Or even larger. As far as I know, only a couple of my son's public school classmates applied to Dartmouth, which registered as an LAC to them.) Most LACs were a step up in size for the private school kids, but the public school kids tended to want to widen their horizons more.</p>
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I find that as well. The public school kids are tending towards the larger, public state institutions. Is it that they aren't aware of the LACs? Maybe tend to stay in-state? Don't know there are other options? Parents not as involved? Don't know enough about financial aid to try for private college admission and see what financial aid is available?
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<p>Just like the students demographics are skewed here, I would bet the average level of education and income among the parents is skewed as well.</p>
<p>I live in the south and not one of the wealthy cities. If they go to college, kids stay here because just the gas money or bus ticket to get back and forth to, say, Houston, is an expense. </p>
<p>Believe me, the parents are very involved. It's just an entirely different financial picture than most here at CC seem to have. It's an entirely different way of life. Education is valued but the idea of putting the burden on ones familiy to maintain two households, even if one of them is a dorm room, is not something these kids feel good about.</p>
<p>I read so much about how lazy and demanding kids are these days and then I look at the teens I know here and I wonder if I'm living on a different planet.</p>
<p>“One year I had a student with a near-perfect SAT score and straight A’s. I’d originally put him in the submitted pile, but then we had to reduce the list. I reread his essays and frankly, they were just a little more boring than the other kids. So I cut him. Boring was the only justification that I needed and he was out."</p>
<p>^^I agree. I once spoke to an admissions officer from a very selective university about their admissions process, and she said that every year they read through the applications and come up with a pile that are Totally Fanatastic and Must Be Admitted. And every year after the first pass that pile is at least twice as big as the number they can actually admit.</p>
<p>So then they have to go back through applicants that were judged to be sure-fire, slam-dunk admits and cull out half of them. They've got to make cuts on some basis. It may well turn out to be a boring essay.</p>
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<p>ellemenope -- about those affluent parents banging on the doors demanding more guidance -- often those are the same people voting down referendums to send more tax monies to the schools.<<</p>
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<p>Probably true, but I hope not. In our area, it's often the childless households that are the recalcitrant ones.</p>
<p>After my oldest D finished all her applications (and back in the day of huge glossy viewbooks), I took all of those beautiful pages to the college guidance library that they have for exactly these kind of resources for kids. It is more or less organized by parent volunteers and of the four there that day, every single one of them drove either a BMW or a mercedes, belonged to a country club, owned a cabin and a boat and every single one of them said it was completely out of the realm of their thinking that anyone would apply to these schools.. and this was in 2003!</p>
<p>The point is, every one has their priorities and no, I do not believe that public high school kids from lesser means know how amazing financial aid can be -- especially at a few of the Ivies that pretty much say you will not have debt upon graduation, Dartmouht would be a huge want.</p>
<p>Okay sounds like getting a college adviser should be the move. I think it will benefit my son quite a bit. I am looking to go through a company in Cambridge, heard they are pretty reputable.</p>
<p>And yet one of my best friends hired a private college counselor. Her son is attending a large public school in LA that is full of very affluent families with high expectations and bright kids. She has been very disappointed with the private counselor. The counselor didn't know that her son should send in an arts portfolio; the counselor took a vacation during the last week of December so wasn't available for last minute help. So make sure you get a personal recommendation from someone who used the counselor and was happy with the results.</p>
<p>The sister of a friend sends her kids to a private school with a similar tuition structure to ours. Whereas our college counselors were in the office all thru winter break except for Christmas day (I think they were there half day on Christmas eve and all day New Years Eve and in the afternoon on New Years Day), her school was not only closed, the counselors were out of the office. And her counselor in particular was unavailable and said something to the effect that it was "not her responsibility" to be available to them. I was beyond shocked especially because of the schools he was applying to, he had been given no idea what were reaches, possibles and safeties! Add to this that this was their first child to apply to college, my suggestion was to look for another school for their current freshman.</p>
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<p>Okay sounds like getting a college adviser should be the move<<</p>
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<p>Pay for a private counselor/consultant if you like, but I've never heard of one giving any advice to a client that wasn't available for free by reading it right here on CC.</p>
<p>Reading this thread, I am realizing that perhaps my S's smallish (750 student), average high school was advantageous for him. He had the same GC for all 4 years, and she knew him very well. She and another recently hired GC handle all GC responsibilities, including college counseling. </p>
<p>She wrote excellent recommendations for both my S and D when they were applying for colleges, and they would have been willing to help them decide where and how to apply. Our family did all of the research about that ourselves. </p>
<p>Our GCs would never tell a student not to apply to a particular school. They might encourage the applicant to check out the academic profiles of schools to which they are considering applying, but they would never forbid them to do so. No one from my S's school has ever attended an Ivy, although several have gone to top 10 or 20 schools. There is definitely no wheeling or dealing going on between our GCs and college admissions people. When my S was admitted SCEA to Stanford, the principal and GCs were ecstatic and practically falling out of their chairs.</p>
<p>Our HS had deadlines for asking GCs for recommendations and transcripts that occurred well before the winter break. All students were aware of this, and if they wanted their college paperwork submitted on time, they had to observe these deadlines. GCs took the same well-deserved winter break as students, faculty and other staff.</p>
<p>And what about the GC that stresses "fit" which is really low-balling the application range to boost their personal app-to-acceptance metric. At some privates, job performance reviews include these metrics. </p>
<p>Same with subject tests - some privates only want students taking Subject tests after taking AP classes. This boosts the school's metrics, but blocks lots of students from taking subject tests.</p>