This is getting tedious. Did you see where I said “if cost is not a factor”?
I will say again, YOU will not be attending your son’s school. HE will. If he did throw in Arizona State (and it’s pretty shitty the way you include it), and HE is happy there, then why are you unhappy? Honestly, I’m stymied by this thinking. We parents can have our wishes for our kids’ schools (I certainly did) but WE ARE NOT ATTENDING THE SCHOOL. Are we or are we not hoping our children are becoming adults who think for themselves? Or is the goal to raise adults who will please others?
Even at less “elite” levels, we have to let go sometimes. One of my sons seriously considered going to JMU instead of Virginia Tech (mulled the decision over for a few days). Admittedly, I hoped he would pick VT (and he did) but we were very clear with him that it was his choice . I did feel VT was the better choice, primarily because it is more of a “national” university with great resources, as opposed to JMU , which is not as well known outside of the mid Atlantic area. I might have had an initial twinge of disappointment if he had picked JMU (great school by the way) but I could see reasons why he may have ended up picking it (nice campus, friendly students,good programs, etc.). We have friends and the dad is a William & Mary grad, also their law school. Their son picked JMU over William & Mary and they got behind that pretty quickly and became enthusiastic JMU parents. Their kid just knew in his gut what was right for him.
Couldn’t disagree more. I would suggest that not only is it their job to approve/disapprove, it is also their job to provide guidance, make recommendations, and otherwise influence the choices – and maybe even to veto certain choices. My kid may prefer to go to Kapiolani Community College on Waikiki and major in surfing, but that doesn’t mean I should be good with that decision.
@Pizzagirl, which of those schools was your son’s safety?
It’s great that you were willing and able to pay for an elite school education, but would you have faulted him for wanting to save you a lot of money by going to the Barrett Honors College at ASU? Do you really think students who choose Barrett are doing so to get a tan? What if your kid was an extrovert and had no fear of the giant flagship experience? What if he just felt he would be happier and could excel at a school that didn’t include “uniformly high caliber student bodies”?
Parents can and should help craft a list. Set clear parameters for cost, medical considerations if they exist, and things like travel and distance. Yes. Talk about job fields after graduation. Steer kids to do the research.
Once those things are done, and acceptances are in, our job as parents is done. It is not my job to choose my child’s college or to make her feel it is. We can stuff our kids into any school WE feel is “better”, but if the kid doesn’t want to be there it’s pointless.
By “setting parameters for cost” I mean “Here is what Dad and I can pay for tuition, room and board, books, travel, and such”.
If anything, I was worried that my 18 year-old son might appreciate the uniformly high caliber student “bodies” at ASU a little too much 
“It’s great that you were willing and able to pay for an elite school education, but would you have faulted him for wanting to save you a lot of money by going to the Barrett Honors College at ASU?”
Obviously that depends on family circumstances. In the case of the OP, it’s admirable that the student, who has many younger siblings, wanted to save the family money. In our circumstance where the money was already set aside - no, I wouldn’t want them to choose an appreciably “lower” school to save money.
Can we keep money out of this? This is a discussion of ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL. Obviously money / finances / scholarships are a major part of decision-making as it should be - debt is a bad thing. That doesn’t mean all schools are the same caliber. People make tradeoffs and choices.
“Do you really think students who choose Barrett are doing so to get a tan?”
I didn’t say such a thing. Don’t put words in my mouth.
Lucie, why do places like Alabama offer a lot of money to students who might have otherwise chosen fancy-schmanc elite schools? Because they want to compensate by sweetening the pot. Don’t you think that they attract a lot of kids who would have gone elsewhere - and who might have preferred to go elsewhere - but the money is compelling (as it understandably is)?
“If he did throw in Arizona State (and it’s pretty **** the way you include it), and HE is happy there, then why are you unhappy?”
We have family members who attended Arizona State. It wouldn’t have made it on the list from the get-go unless there had been some compelling reason (a major / program there not available anywhere else, etc.). I’m “allowed” to have third-rail schools.
I don’t actually think money CAN be left out of this discussion. While it seems to be a common thing here on CC, MOST parents out there is the real world DO have to consider cost when their kids are applying to and choosing colleges. There are very few families where parents are paying full-freight and get to force the decision on where the kids go, whether they are “horrified” or not.
I’ve never know any family, in fact, who has been a full-pay family. So it’s always been a factor for those I know, whether the choice is a vocational school or an Ivy. D has several friends who are NOT at a “well-respected” or “highly-ranked” school because of finances. And despite what I often see here about it sometimes being cheaper to attend a small private vs. local public, well, not always and not often from what I’ve seen up close and personal among the many youth we know. Most of them are scrambling.
I know too many people who have become successful by going to “less selective” or “lower ranked” colleges-many of them state flagships instead of expensive private “highly-ranked” schools. They hold top elected positions, work at companies like MS and Google, run business of their own and live well. If the money works and my kid finds a program that works for her, I’m ok with it, because in the real world there are more people from “less-selective” and non “highly ranked” colleges than there are from the few that get the huzzahs and genuflecting on this board.
Er, no? Money is often the biggest factor in the college decision, even more so than “prestige” and rank. You may be lucky to be able to ignore money out of the discussion but it’s near impossible for most parents. That’s why the most prevailing question seems to be “What is your budget?” and advice is “Run the NPC”.
So while you want parents/students to leave money out, you bring it in for colleges? If Alabama wants to create a critical mass of high stat students by offering them lots of money, I don’t see a problem. It’s not the only school to do so. Many schools have used money to draw faculty as well as students - presumably they do so to benefit their school and students in some way.
But in this particular thread, money really was not a part of the discussion. A largely theoretical discussion ensued because, initially, the costs of the three schools in play (NU, MSU and Amherst) all came in fairly close money-wise. It’s exactly because the money part WAS removed from the equation that made this thread different and more interesting than many typical CC choice threads. As it played out, of course, money did come into it and other factors became apparent as well.
Of COURSE money is often a huge, if not the hugest, factor…for most families. But this discussion has been more about making a “disappointing” choice despite the money.
I have to agree with Pizzagirl. Most 18 year-olds just aren’t savvy enough to make a major life decision – like where to attend college – entirely on their own. Looking back 30 years, I wish I had had more, not less, parental guidance on where to attend.
In terms of the NU, MSU, and Amherst discussion-if cost was not an issue-are there any parents here who would refuse to let their kid apply to or attend MSU? How far would you take it in terms of telling your kid what to do? What if the kid really wanted to go to MSU (or ASU, for that matter)? I still don’t get what would be wrong with that. There are 1000’s of colleges in the US. MSU is in the top 100 national universities in the country and is a major research university. Sorry, Pizzagirl, I just don’t get all the angst and worry about “bands of quality” in this discussion.
As prospect notes, and as many have said over and over, THIS thread is a discussion of choosing when all schools are viable choices, not when some are not affordable. The cost differences as presented were not meaningful.
The OP was simply stating disappointment in her kid’s decision to not take the opportunity to go to an elite school over an in-state, non-flagship public. She never said it was a bad choice or that he shouldn’t go there. Just that there was some fleeting sadness that he would not join the ranks of an elite school. I, and several others, understand that FEELING and this is a great place to anonymously talk about it. Of course this kid can get a great engineering education at MSU and be as successful than if he had gone elsewhere. That doesn’t mean there aren’t trade offs.
Assuming my child had qualifications and luck to get in to schools like NU and Amherst, I would let my child apply to MSU (or equivalent) as a backup only; if they got in to one of their high-target/reach schools, I’d expect them to go to one. Some schools really are stronger than others, sorry (and remember: they’d be choosing which of these high-target/reach schools to apply to).
I don’t sense people here think the OP’s initial disappointment is odd or unusual at all.
“That doesn’t mean there aren’t trade offs.” But there are always trade offs and that automatically presupposes that NU or Amherst would be the obvious best choice , no matter what. I’m not sure that would always be the case. Some kids, believe it or not, would prefer to go to a school like MSU than Northwestern or Amherst. And a trade off with picking Amherst over MSU could involve things like missing out on big time sports, mixing with more kids from different levels of ability (as you would find once you get into the world outside of the college bubble), etc.
It’s not my “job”, but that doesn’t mean that I give up the right to be disappointed if my children choose differently than I would suggest. It IS my parental job not to let my child see that disappointment or worry. Assuming they’re not telling me that they’re going to e.g. do freelance reporting in Syria.
Told our kids that there was a pot of money which allowed them to be full pay anywhere for undergrad, but choosing less expensive options would allow them to use the remainder for grad/professional school, starting a business, covering living expenses post-college during unpaid internships, etc. Both opted for full pay undergrad. If the older NMF kid had opted for ASU Barrett for free, or younger kid had opted for places offering big merit aid discounts, that would’ve been their own choice. The deal was that they had/have to squeeze as much juice out of the experience as possible. If they went anywhere and spent all their time partying it up, that would be the disappointment.
Interestingly enough, I know of one student at a single-initial school who was indeed selling heroin to pay the bursar. The great irony was that said student was lauded in a very big-deal way for their business acumen for some other not-as-profitable-but-legit startup businesses that were being run during their student years.
And hey, drug dealers and other criminals have kids they have to send to college, so I suppose this student (and I’m sure this isn’t the only student to run this kind of business) is relatively small potatoes even as they were making serious bank. No winky face.
Just once again, as I’m continuing to read this thread… I am so, so glad that my parents have supported every great, bad, and stupid decision I’ve ever made. They’ve never felt the need to weigh in on my college decisions other than to say that they support whatever choice I make. (They also couldn’t afford to contribute money to my college so it’s not like they had that to hold over my head… though they wouldn’t have even if they were full freight.)
I think many 18 year olds are much smarter than people give them credit for… as long as you give them a chance to make decisions. Of course, if they’re not used to making decisions for themselves, then they’re more likely to make a “bad” decision.
Musing here: a reminder that this is also 4 years of one’s life. Your child is (likely) going to be living at X university for FOUR years. I’m not of the mindset that college is just a checkbox on the journey to a “successful” life- I think every stage of your life should be enjoyed for what it is and not just what it might or might not lead to. So, if that means you want to go to college with the rah-rah spirit or that’s in the south or that’s on the beach, then so be it! It’s 4 years and you’re not spending all of that time in the classroom. If that’s immature then I hope I never grow up.