PT: yes, in this example the Lexus and Scion are nearly enough the same price. Assume I cannot take whichever car and re-sell it, just like I cannot sell back my daughter’s education and degree. Whichever is purchased, the sale is final.
If I’m spending about the same amount, and the Scion does the job we need it to do, then yes. I might not be thrilled about it, but the Scion does do what we need it to at a fair and comparable price. The Lexus is a marked-down comparably priced bargain - so what? We cannot get any “value” other than use out of it. We cannot resell it. So we get the Scion, yes.
Why is that so hard for you to accept and believe?
Fit is a complicated thing. But presumably, if a kid and a parent are exploring together what the college options are, somehow, the core issues can surface. And I think it’s important to consider those without necessarily making a decision based on those.
A perennial topic in my neck of the woods is kids who don’t want to attend the state flagship nursing program- which has a very high boards pass rate, has phenomenal relationships with teaching hospitals (not just the one attached to its own med school) etc. The U is big, and I certainly don’t believe it’s a “fit” for everyone.
But there needs to be a conversation- and I don’t think the parent throws up his/her hands and says “I don’t get a vote here” when the choice is between this nursing program, vs. a smaller college which has less of everything- fewer faculty, not as good relationships with the teaching hospitals, worse outcomes in terms of board passage, etc. It’s more of a struggle for their graduates to launch professionally right now, especially if a grad is interested in going on- a doctorate, PA, other advanced accreditation. This gap became apparent a few years ago when two local hospitals merged and another regional hospital was acquired by a big medical system. All of a sudden, the so called 'nursing shortage" became a scramble for new grads to get hired- fewer slots, and a very strong preference for students from the big flagship program (the top nursing program in the region).
Don’t you at least ask your kid what the objections- other than the size- are to the better program with stronger academics? Especially if the smaller college is going to cost more for a degree? Sure- your kid can decide to do shift work at a nursing home down the road for the flexibility… but what if your kid can ONLY get shift work after graduating because the plum full time jobs go to the kids who graduated from the program your kid could have gone to (at less cost) but wanted “fit”?
“If Alabama wants to create a critical mass of high stat students by offering them lots of money, I don’t see a problem. It’s not the only school to do so. Many schools have used money to draw faculty as well as students - presumably they do so to benefit their school and students in some way.”
I have never remotely said that this is a problem or that Alabama or other schools shouldn’t do so.
“College isn’t summer camp. Our family made plenty of sacrifices (happily) to be able to send our kids to the college of their choosing, but that came with strings. Opting for urban vs. suburban? A personal choice. Georgian brick vs. gothic stone? Go where you feel more comfortable. Opting for a surfing/beach lifestyle vs. a rigorous intellectual experience? Not while I’m still the parent.”
Yes. This is exactly what I’m saying here. There are plenty of personal-fit options within the band of relatively similar academics and student body.
So for all of you on CC who so merrily believe everything is just the same - what if the choices were NU / Amherst and comm college (instead of MSU)? Kid feels most at home at comm college. Finances aren’t the decision-maker. Why are you on CC if you believe everything is the same from comm college up to the most elite in the country? There are NO differences that are meaningful? Come on now. It’s not dissing MSU to suggest that it’s not even the most elite school in its state.
“it’s not even the most elite school in its state.” But what difference does it really make that it is not the most "elite " school in the state? Some people clearly care more about that kind of thing than others do. As long as it will get a kid where they need to go and they prefer to go there, I really don’t see a problem.
Crossposted with SomeOldGuy, who I assume is addressing Pizzagirl.
Please ease up on that strawman. It may catch fire, and I need it for another argument somewhere else on the internet.
As folks have pointed out with varying degrees of patience for over a week now, Michigan State is not a community college but, rather, one of the top 100 research universities on God’s green earth. Foregoing your beloved alma mater for that may not be the decision YOU would make (or make for your kids), but that doesn’t make it irrational.
“Just once again, as I’m continuing to read this thread… I am so, so glad that my parents have supported every great, bad, and stupid decision I’ve ever made. They’ve never felt the need to weigh in on my college decisions other than to say that they support whatever choice I make.”
WIth all due respect, romanigypsyeyes, your parents appear to be incredibly hands-off on a whole host of dimensions on which most parents influence their (minor) children.
@FCCDAD, the Lexus being marked-down wasn’t the example I gave. In mine, I asked what you would do if the Scion was marked up to the price of a Lexus. I’m not asking about your particular case but what you would do in the scenario I laid before you. Which, for some reason, is a question you keep dodging.
And I certainly believe people are capable of anything. That doesn’t mean that I believe that people who pay double what another Scion costs simply because they want a particular color/trim to be particularly savvy. If both a Lexus and Scion are free to you, it certainly is fine to make the decision based on personal preferences, but only if you had considered the merits of both in all situations and can make persuasive arguments to support your choice. And like @SwimDad99, I wouldn’t say I trust the judgement of all 18 year-olds. I know that I had likes and dislikes at that age for reasons which decades later seem extremely silly.
Those of us who aren’t die hard Wolverines are super sick of the whole “not even the best in Michigan” line. According to us news, this is true but SO WHAT? I mean, good God, according to us news, Cornell isn’t even the best school in NY so I guess it’s unworthy.
PT: In your example, I’d probably say we couldn’t afford either one. I was trying to construct an analogy similar to the OP’s described situation. I’m not sure why you want to change it to make price a consideration, but since you did, they’d both be unaffordable.
So what stats does it tKe for Margarita U? Merit aid? Maybe it’s time for ME to go back to college!
This whole thread has gotten crazy-theoretical!! I’ve lost the thread…but I can be honest and say yes, I’d be a little disappointed in that situation too. My issue though, not my kid’s. If I was more than disappointed and disagreed, I suppose I’d want him to pitch me his decision process…if it makes good sense, off you go. If not, he’d have to sit through my pitch!
How is that different from the rest of us? Has there been anyone here who has said - Absolutely not, over my dead body? Or have we expressed - we’d want to hear a really good, compelling reason, and “but I just wanna” wouldn’t be enough?
“Those of us who aren’t die hard Wolverines are super sick of the whole “not even the best in Michigan” line. According to us news, this is true but SO WHAT? I mean, good God, according to us news, Cornell isn’t even the best school in NY so I guess it’s unworthy.”
That’s right.
4 Columbia and #15 Cornell is *exactly* the same type of differential as #29 Michigan and #85 Michigan State.
@@
(Hint: One’s a meaningless difference. The other is reasonably meaningful. You figure out which is which.)
ETA: Since someone mentioned UCLA “not even the best public in CA,” the differential is #20 Berkeley and #23 UCLA, which I hope I don’t need to point out is a completely meaningless difference, and not even a real meaningful difference compared to the privates, #4 Stanford and #10 Caltech and #25 USC.
Good grief, what’s so difficult about the concept of bands?
When S1 was 17 and picking schools, I would have been a little disappointed had he taken the full ride at the flagship (and it was a true 100% full ride) over MIT and Chicago. In retrospect, however, I think we should have considered the full ride option more seriously, given that he would have wound up in the same place anyway (several of his HS friends who took that ride are working in SV and/or are at elite grad schools, and the school has a pipeline to SV). Maybe the name brand will pay off later, but at this point, he’s successful because of what he has done, not because of where he went.
That said, DH did not want him to take the full ride and was not shy about saying that.
1.) My son is not a minor and does not need me.to contribute one red cent to the equation. The “if I’m paying for it, I get a vote” argument is irrelevant.
2.) I actually think his first choice was Notre Dame. MSU’s CoE is actually ranked higher than ND’s, but I would’ve advocated for ND based on other considerations.
3.) His reasoning is: it’s closer, it’s essentially free, his two uncles with engineering degrees from Michigan Tech seem to be doing just fine, living in Chicago when you are a broke college student and gone during the summer isn’t all that alluring, he likes sports and will enjoy 13 Saturdays every fall.
I’m still a little disappointed and freely admit a big envelope from ND, though unlikely at this point, would be welcome. The MSU-community college analogy, however, is ridiculous. The question is not whether MSU is as good as Northwestern or Amherst: the question is if MSU is GOOD ENOUGH. The comparison is not between a Scion or a Lexus, it’s more F-150 versus a Lexus. I think commuting in a truck is silly, but there are hundreds of thousands of guys who disagree. If they like a stiff ride and a higher view of the road ahead, so be it.
GreeninOhio, I just want to thank you for sharing your honest feelings about the twinge of disappointment in your child’s college selection. I have posted some honest things on this forum and been ridiculed and chastised for it, but that is the nature of Internet forums. Some don’t appreciate that it’s what I really feel and I’m not being deceptive or putting up a facade. Ah, well.
@Pizzagirl Gee, was I not supposed to chime in and answer the question from my perspective?
Why on earth would you ask how is that different from what the rest of is are saying??? Are you looking for conflict? Nothing I said was aimed at anyone!
Next time let me know when I am allowed to post, ok?