Of course. With all of these, the devil is in the details. i think I’m hardly an Ivy or bust type!
what i don’t understand if the big deal between UM and MSU. In FL, there are programs that are better at FL state than at UF. If someone is interested in hospitality or such, Central FL in Orlando is the best choice. What matters is the specific field, and opportunities for summer internships and jobs.
Every dumb question I heard on college tours was from a parent.
The process has to be kid-driven. Period.
About 9 months ago, when we were taking D12 back to school, we asked D15 to pick 2 schools to stop at on the way back. She picked 2 that had popped onto her list and those schools ended up being 2 of her top 3 choices at the end of the day.
Oh one could write a whole dissertation on that… lol.
As someone who has degrees from both, I am firmly of the mindset that some people will do better at MSU and others at U of M depending on the person, goals, etc. I do NOT believe that U of M is always the better choice or even the default choice.
And as someone who has taught at U of M, I shudder a bit to think that these students are the cream of the crop. I’ve had brilliant students, of course, but no more than I encountered at MSU, and then I have students in an upper-level writing class who can’t write a coherent sentence or form an argument.
The MSU/U of M issues go well beyond any logical differences between the two places.
“what I don’t understand is the big deal between UM and MSU.” The big deal is probably most meaningful to people who care a lot about rankings and prestige.
My guess is these issues have to do with sports fandom and alumni pride more than anything that approaches “logical.”
I was very hands on with D2 on the college process. She had a private college counselor and her last 2 years of high school were fairly mapped out. Fast forward to junior year in college, getting ready for law school application, she told me she owned the process. She is doing everything I would do if I was planning it out for her. She called me the other day to let me know that she thought she needed more help with LSAT, but she is on track with her GPA. She asked me if I would pay for a private tutor. She got a great law internship for this summer on her own . She has a strategy on full pay vs merit scholarship and how they would impact her future employment. Not to pat myself my my back, but she didn’t gain all that insight and planning on her own. She is applying what we went through together when she was applying to college to what she is doing now.
I do believe parents who let their kids do it on their own, without sharing their valuable experience, is short changing their kids, because your kid would be competing with my kid who is leveraging my experience to get ahead.
Here is another food for thought…all that talk about fit (urban vs rural, large vs small, north vs south), did you take all that consideration when you decided where you were going to live when your kids were growing up? Guess what, most kids went to the local public school where their parents had a job. I don’t remember any parent say, “Oh, I don’t think we should live in that town because it would be the wrong fit for me kid(s).” Of course, almost every family sent all of their very diverse kids to the same public school, but that seem to be fine for most people. People really lose the sight that the reason people go to college is to get the BEST education possible, everything else is noise.
Many years ago when I was going through the college process, I had the option of going to a great private LAC and our good instate public. COA was few thousand $$ for the LAC and free for the instate. As the oldest kid in my family, I chose the cheaper option. My mother supported my decision, but my father told me to go to the LAC. I don’t think I would have done it without my father’s “permission/” As a child, I didn’t think I had the right to ask my parents to spend that kind of money on me.
I was very involved. My wife took a backseat. We wanted her to look around and see all types of colleges so she would find the best one for her. We gave her a wide range of options, but there were constraints.
The parameters we put on her selection were that she could attend any college she wanted as long as it hit the following criteria:
- High 4 year and 6 year graduation rate
- High freshman retention rate
- US News & World Report “Top 50” school or Forbes Top 100.
- Low student-teacher ratio
If she wanted to attend an elite school out of state, it had to hit the above criteria. Fortunately she had the grades, ACTs and extracurricular activities to make an excellent choice. She’s off to Vassar in the fall and she and the family are thrilled.
What I’ve observed during this process is parents either don’t engage with their kids or they aren’t capable of providing good guidance because of lack of experience. What happens is that brilliant kids who could go to elite schools end up going to the local college or the best state school because they never were guided to explore other options.
This is a big country and there are a lot of great schools outside of the ones in your state. Even if you live in California, North Carolina, Virginia or Michigan, to name a few.
And some of us who had the stats to go to “elite” schools chose our instate public for a variety of reasons even though we were well aware of what else was out there.
@jmnva06 Same story with my D. The only reason we scheduled a visit to the school she’ll be going to is because it was halfway between our house and the summer program I was driving her to. D had been doing some research into schools and suggested we visit the one that ultimately became her first and only choice…but it was one that I knew almost nothing about. Personally, I thought visiting Niagra Falls was a better idea. So I’m glad she didn’t listen to me. 
“I do believe parents who let their kids do it on their own, without sharing their valuable experience, is short changing their kids, because your kid would be competing with my kid who is leveraging my experience to get ahead.”
That’s an interesting perspective. Last week, D called us to ask my / H’s expertise in what benefits she should sign up for at her new job, what health insurance plan she should sign up for, etc. Now of course she can choose what she likes. But my H is a physician and he knows the ins and outs of various insurance plans, so why shouldn’t he leverage that. We also have years of investing experience so why shouldn’t she leverage that too in making decisions about what to put in a 401K, etc. And just today, she called to ask if we would help her in finding an apartment. Of course it’s still her ultimate choice, but we as fully-baked adults at this point know things about certain city neighborhoods, what to look for, etc. that she simply doesn’t know. It makes zero sense not to leverage someone who knows better. Indeed, like oldfort, my kids leveraged my experience and that’s why they didn’t just follow the high school crowd.
I’m not sure how the pendulum in this discussion has swung to not ever advising our kids about anything, ever.
Advising and ordering are two different birds. One is helpful in the college process, the other is harmful.
" I don’t remember any parent say, “Oh, I don’t think we should live in that town because it would be the wrong fit for me kid(s).”
Actually, H and I did exactly that when we bought our house. We deliberately moved to a part of Seattle where there is far more diversity than in the “good” parts of town with the 'better" schools. And now we drive D to another town altogether so her middle/HS experience will be at a school that is the best “fit”. And she is thriving. We tried the “best” public school in our city based on academics alone and it was an unmitigated disaster socially. In her case a “lesser” academic school based on the student population was an improvement. There are still kids going Ivy and “selective” schools. But there’s also the kid going to learn auto repair. And it’s a much happier place. The kids get to teach each other so much about life.
As for college, my D is of course looking at programs first, but location, weather and transportation also matter to her-and to us. Her older sister had to ride a bus to the ER because the one taxi wasn’t available, so small towns are out for her. Certain EC’s while in college are important to her, so access to those is IN. And nearly all of the type of college she wants are in the south, so south vs. north IS a major consideration. Kids don’t go to college and never leave their dorms or classrooms. They need more of a “fit” than academics to make them comfortable enough to want to stay there for the academics.
I watched plenty of kids at my own college leave even as late as junior year because they just couldn’t be happy there anymore, where their parents had insisted they go. Maybe if they’d had a better “fit” it would have been different for them. Anyone who goes to college for the rank and prestige only and truly doesn’t care about their surroundings may be brilliant, but lacking sorely in being well-rounded.
We, too, chose a specific school district for our kids, while the oldest was still on the way. I don’t think such planning is unusual.
Maybe I am taking this out of context, but @HeliMom74 posted:
I personally believe my kid could be happy at many different schools. Her happiness at one particular school may not have anything to do with academic at age of 17.
“I’m not sure how the pendulum”
I don’t get it either. We certainly still advise our young adult children, and they still come to us for guidance.
I’m standing by my statement. Telling a kid a variation of “You’ll like it after you’ve been there a while, it’s a great school!” is not helping. It’s also not helpful to assume every child at 17-18 is incapable of knowing exactly where he wants to live and what he wants to study.
Or, that at 17-18, he is incapable of making a smart decision about HIS future.
With our last move, my parents specifically chose the neighborhood because of the school system.
My fiance and I are in the process of buying our first house and we specifically chose it because of the school system and because it’s a good neighborhood for kids… even though kids are a long way off.
I didn’t know people with young children DIDN’T choose neighborhoods with their kids in mind.