" What I’ve observed during this process is parents either don’t engage with their kids or they aren’t capable of providing good guidance because of lack of experience "
But there is a huge difference in guiding the process vs controlling it. There are also different ways of guiding. As a coach I talk alot about a process of guided discovery, which essentially is a process by which you let players figure stuff out on their own with some guidance from the coach. This is largely my approach to parenting.
I more or less tossed a copy of “Colleges That Change Lives” at D2 and said here is a guide to schools.
I took this approach as someone that spends most of his workday working on higher education issues…
My older D’s approach was even more interesting. After a round of college visits, she announced that she was applying to 1 school EA and if she got in she was done. I know my kid and I know the school and realized it was grat fit so I embraced her approach.
Offering advice and suggestions is vastly different from saying, “You go there or else!” It’s also very different from assuming that your child is so out of tune with him/herself that s/he can’t possibly know what they want. It’s also very different from assuming that you know better than they do how they’ll fare at any one place. I know several HS slackers who became rock star honor students in college and other rock star high schoolers who flamed out. Even here on CC we see posts about kids who hate where they are in college every few weeks. I wonder how many of them felt they had no choice but to follow mom and dad’s substantial money.
Yes, BEST academic school system, not because it is by a beach, close to shopping center, best Asian food, best football field, etc. People pay handsomely in order to live in the best school system. When it comes to college selection, all the fluff is in, except what the school has to offer academically. When our kids were in high school, it was important for them to be in honor and advance courses because we wanted to make sure they wouldn’t be bored if they weren’t challenged, but not when they go to college because all college courses must be the same.
@oldfort, who in this thread has made a case for choosing a school based solely on proximity to shopping, dining, football field? I do not know a single student who has based his choice on those things alone.
Actually, we moved AWAY from the best schools. We thought it best to leave a neighborhood where H was questioned by police for standing in front of our own residence. We were willing to drive D to the school that was the best “fit”, though at one point, as I said, we chose poorly about that. We also are happy to live closer to more diverse food options and recreation that suits our family, which is itself quite diverse. It’s nice to be able to walk around and see families that look like ours instead of being greeted with surprised looks when we go out. But yes, for some people it’s ALL about top this, top that, top schools, top scores, because they’re certain that only those top things will make them successful and happy.
"I’m not sure how the pendulum in this discussion has swung to not ever advising our kids about anything, ever.
Advising and ordering are two different birds. "
Who was ordering their kids to choose a certain school? Was there someone who was insistent on shoehorning their kid into some school to fulfill parental ego? Guys, this is a shades of gray discussion. The OP started by saying she was disappointed kid didn’t choose NU/Amherst. The OP didn’t say she was sitting shiva and was never going to talk to the kid again and would hold it against him til his dying day. No one here is talking about holding a gun to their kid’s head and forcing them to choose School X when it’s clear they prefer and have good, clearly articulated reasons for preferring School Y. Why does this have to devolve into the extremes?
@HeliMom74 - maybe your kids were more mature than my kids, but one of my kids told me that she didn’t like a school because she didn’t see any bubble tea place around the school. I think you are the one who said as long as the kid was happy then that’s it. In our case, we would have been following the bubble tea rating.
I think the larger point to take away from this is the danger of assuming every child will only choose a school for superficial reasons and thus must be directed by parents.
" for some people,it’s all about top this, top that." I am really surprised by a statement like “your kid would be competing with my kid who is leveraging my experience to get ahead.” I, personally, am more concerned with my kids being generally successful and good people, as opposed to worrying about how they’re going to compete against other people and get ahead. But that’s just me.
How do you define being generally successful? Does that mean getting a job to be self supporting? How many applicants generally “compete” for a job? Even in the best economy, we don’t have 0% unemployment rate. We do compete with other people to survive (getting a paying job).
You don’t think your kid would be competing for a job? My kid applied for a summer internship where they selected 10 out of 500 applicants, and it wasn’t even a high paying job.
I do. Part of why H and I have worked so darn hard is to give our kids advantages. And please, everyone on this board has done the same. This is a board of parents who read to their children, took them to museums, encouraged their interests, advocated for them if need be, helped develop / give them skills that are important in the larger work world (persistence, diligence, teamwork, socialization skills) and are obviously more vested in college choice than most if they’re bothering to read a forum on colleges.
Oldfort’s point isn’t that she was positioning her kid to “beat” your kid because the goal of life is beating your kid. Her point is that the kids whose parents just stand back and do nothing will be competing with her kids to get jobs.
I don’t consider it my job to get my kid to “beat” your kid - I hope everyone does well and I’m the exact opposite of zero-sum. I do consider it my job to give them the advantages I can, whether that’s a stable family / home life, good health care, the social skills necessary to do well in the work world, a good school district, and in this case, an excellent college education.
“I think the larger point to take away from this is the danger of assuming every child will only choose a school for superficial reasons and thus must be directed by parents.”
That’s a major strawman as well, as no one said that every or even most children would only choose a school for superficial reasons. If I said to my kid in this hypothetical - you know, the school you like doesn’t have x, y and z that the other schools you were admitted to have, and I think x, y and z are pretty important and I’d like to know your reasoning here, that’s not “assuming” the reasons were superficial. That’s asking what they were and evaluating the response.
Presumably you all understand your own kids well enough to know if they thrive on the sort of external pressure you’re putting on them. We enrolled our two oldest sons at an all-boys Jesuit 6-12 school a few years ago, when my oldest was a freshman. His younger brother was in 6th grade and, while intelligent and kind, was only scoring in the 95th percentile on assessment tests and about a year behind the oldest in achievement. They both came back to public school when the 6th grader admitted to friends at school that he was suicidal. He’s an A student now, but I am still afraid to push him into Honors level high school classes, even though I know he could handle them easily.
My own parents pushed me academically by having me skip 5th grade a year after moving away from my hometown so I could go to a “better” school district. I ended up being a National Merit Semi-Finalist who graduated in the bottom half of my high school class. I have never gotten over the feeling that, in disappointing them, I became unworthy of their love. Never. My father is dead now, and I speak to my mother about every other month.
I hope your high expectations for your children don’t become an unbearable burden to them down the road.
The email from Northwestern tonight said to contact them immediately if it was received by mistake (if he actually did want to enroll). I forwarded it to him, but I’m thinking now that I probably should have just deleted it.
Of course, people need to compete for a job. But when someone talks about competing for a job and the need to “get ahead” , it is interesting to me. I just don’t worry that much about my kids competing against other people or getting ahead. I think that tends to sort itself out and I wouldn’t want “your kid” to have to feel that competitive either. Like an us vs. them type of thing which is probably not what you really meant. And as you say, the competition is stiff out there . But I am too soft on that type of thing , I’m sure. I want my children to have decent jobs, good friends, and good relationships. As does everyone.
I think you’re underestimating the seriousness and decision-making capabilities of kids like OP’s son. We’re not talking about “slackers” or kids who are just scraping by here. These are kids who have already put a lifetime of blood, sweat, and tears into creating the kind of “body of work” that has gotten them admitted to a number of great schools. Do they need guidance? Of course. But, with that guidance, I think most kids with the wherewithal to get admitted to NU, Amherst, and MSU, would be able to make a decision that works for them, even if that decision is a little disappointing to some of the adults around them. (And being a little disappointed in a “road not traveled” is normal, I think.)
D may not have chosen the school I would have for her, but she had her own, very rational and well-considered, reasons for why she preferred the school she did. And those reasons had nothing to do with beaches or bubble tea. I’m glad I’m able to support her decision wholeheartedly. (Even though there are days when I wish she would be closer to home next year and feel a little disappointment that she will be father away than I might have liked.)
Re: the depression article, Madison’s parents were only interested in their daughter’s health and happiness and were completely fine with her quitting track, transferring schools, etc. Her dad even offered to take her away from Penn that very day and go visit other schools. She refused, saying she was going out with friends. It has nothing to do with this thread as there is no indication anyone pressured her to attend.
