<p>it seems kinda ridiculous how the middleupper class gets punished so much on the financial aid process. my family makes around 120 k but i was determined to only have 1K in grants. it doesnt make sense. its a lot of money and im really disappointed. sighs.
anyone else with situations like this. or comments?</p>
<p>well too bad and suck it up....i'm going through the same thing....life sucks...</p>
<p>The formula for determining your EFC (expected family contribution) was developed by the federal government (Dept. of Ed.) and not by Duke, so you can't blame Duke for its results. And, while Duke does charge the big bucks tuition, it is only charging what the market will bear and what its competition charges, so, again, it is the system we have in place and not Duke. Could Duke use more of its endowment in aid to students? Maybe, I don't know how much it uses now, but the top privates, who have never had to give a lot of discount aid will likely have to follow the lead of the Ivies, who have stepped it up in that area. Even in that case, families making $120K will still be expected to pay quite a bit -- there are a lot of families out there not so fortunate. </p>
<p>What we really need is a system that rewards saving for college while not also cutting out any possibility of going to college for those who couldn't or didn't save. Perhaps some way of giving matching grants for every dollar saved in a special education savings plan such as a 529, while still offering loans so that those without savings aren't totally cut out? Lots of details to work out, though. </p>
<p>For now, though, you'll just have to do the best with the system we have. Good luck!</p>
<p>no k9, duke's system really does suck. I got almost 13,000 in grants from dartmouth, 12000 from columbia, but yet only 3000 from Duke. It's bloody ridiculous - their system of loans and this and that is outdated</p>
<p>Fast27:
As I noted, the Ivies have initiated new FA policies that go beyond what they were doing previously, led by H and Y. They have endowments that allow them to do this. Significant merit aid has been pretty common at the privates below the Top 20-25 as they have to compete with the top publics (example: three years ago, my son was offered enough merit aid by two good but not top 25 privates that the COA was competitive with the cost of OOS publics) but the Ivies and the top 25 privates (Duke, Stanford, Northwestern, Georgetown, Wash U, Emory, NYU, etc. - these are just examples, don't flame me for including a school you scorn or excluding your school or for daring to include "that" school in a list with your school) didn't have to worry about that - they could get enough to pay full price or close to it. Now, the Ivies, for reasons both altruistic and self-preserving, have gotten more generous. </p>
<p>Now aid is better at both the privates above Duke (the Ivies) and below (American and Ithaca, my son's examples) and, of course, all the publics have lower COAs, whether IS or OOS. Your experience exemplifies this. </p>
<p>Now, the question is "How will this 'sandwich' group deal with the problem?" A lot depends on the size of their endowments, whether they can afford to "keep up with the Ivies" or whether they decide to try to continue in that middle category. Some, probably including Duke, will follow the Ivies' lead and try to keep up with the Ivies, others will not or decide they cannot and will continue to lose the most desireable students to the Ivies and the privates who follow them and will start to see other desireable students bolting for the still very good privates that do offer significant merit aid. </p>
<p>So, again, this is not Duke consciously deciding to be stingy -- it is just playing by the rules of the game as they have been in place for the past few years. But the rules are changing.</p>
<p>Frankly, I'm in the camp that no school that is $45-50K per year is a good value. That doesn't mean it is not an excellent education, but is an Ivy (or a Duke or Georgetown) really worth 5x more than it would cost to go to a very good in-state public (in our case U Delaware) or twice what a very good OOS public or very good private would cost? If you can afford it and if you are willing to spend the money then go ahead and do it, but don't kid yourself that you are getting a great deal. Also, try to remember, it's not personal, it's business.</p>
<p>--K9Leader</p>
<p>
[quote]
The formula for determining your EFC (expected family contribution) was developed by the federal government (Dept. of Ed.) and not by Duke, so you can't blame Duke for its results.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This statement is not correct. The federal government does determine eligibility for federally subsidized grants, loans and work study, but Duke relies on its own "formula" to determine how it distributes its scholarship money and Duke subsidized loans. In addition to the FAFSA, Duke requires the applicant to file the CSS PROFILE for its institutional methodology. If you look at the Duke website you will find:</p>
<p>
[quote]
Consensus Approach to Determining Family Ability to Pay
Created by the 568 Presidents' Group, this reformulation of the institutional methodology is used at approximately 35 colleges and universities, including Duke University, to determine the ability of each student's family to support the annual costs of attendance.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I stand corrected -- Duke, along with 35 other schools, uses an additional process for determining "family ability to pay" above and beyond the "expected family contribution." </p>
<p>Still, though, it is not personal, it is business. And, it is not just Duke -- there are 35 other schools using this same formula. Ths comparisons by Fast27 were both Ivies and the Ivies have moved toward more generous aid packages. While the Ivies' actions may lead to some positive changes in the way aid is doled out and in the amount given out, it will take time, which doesn't help those facing the big tuition bills right now.</p>
<p>K9Leader</p>
<p>hey thanks for the feedback.
wut im really worried about is that i have a brother going to college next year. I got almost nothing this year, and i do not know if it will increase next year. Duke financial office sed they wont "consider that cost" in their finaid next year, but it leaves me with this huge uncertainty. As of now, im still going to duke, but i feel kinda scared that my parents cant pay for both kids. does anyone here have any experience with finaid increasing by how much once a sibling enrolls in college? I do hope they increase it so that my parents can pay for both while not going broke. any feedback would be greatly appreciated and would make me feel a lot better. thankss.</p>
<p>@stilldeciding.</p>
<p>If you were eligible for any aid, your financial aid will increase if you have a sibling enroll in an undergraduate institution. I was in the reverse situation (when I began college, I had a sibling in college, but she graduated before I did), and my grants decreased by about $6500 (this was also mid-year so the financial information had not changed). So, I'd imagine you should expect a similar increase (although this was a few years ago and the financial aid policies have changed slightly). Every situation is different, so the calculations will be different. But I'd expect some increase in aid as they *do * take other siblings' enrollment into undergraduate universities into account (they don't care about grad school, however).</p>
<p>My own view is that high achievers should study out the web sites of colleges and see if any of the colleges of interest offer good merit aid/scholarships. If you have any concern about finances, a good look at the web sites will show some interesting programs and potential merit scholarship where you could be happy. As far as your situation at Duke, do you have another scholarship/financial aid package at a comparable school which you can present to try to get Duke to come up with more money?</p>
<p>I think the people who are most adversely affected by Duke's financial aid are the 125-200 k income bracket and those whose parents own a business. Duke does not have the same 10% plan, if you will, as HYP seem to have, and their aid even falters when compared to that of the rest of the Ivies. In addition, one of my friends wasn't able to get a cent bc./could not enroll at Duke bc. they expected his family to liquidate much of his parents' business profits (quite sad bc. he had been a lifelong duke fan). I wouldn't be surprised, however, if Duke stepped up its financial aid initiative specifically to target those two aforementioned groups, espcially if the school starts to slip in rankings. If Duke slips out of the top ten this year in the USNWR rankings(which I think is VERY possible), I think it will start taking very proactive steps to boost its yield, and the most likely of those is to increase financial aid.</p>
<p>We had an interesting conversation with our admissions couselor who promised to look into some financial relief and get back in touch with us. After a week or so, I called and she honestly admitted she had done nothing with our request. I didn't honestly think we had a chance for financial help but was quite surprised and disheartened that she did nothing after telling us she'd see what she could do.</p>
<p>Our S loved Duke but when confronted with the reality of how his choice would "Rock his world" (i.e. require going into debt, changing summer plans, living on a tight budget, etc.), he realized that the added value of a Duke education/experience was not worth the very real costs for him.</p>
<p>He is now quite happy with his college choice and very honored to have been admitted to Duke. It's a win win situation.</p>
<p>Financial Aid is certainly an area that Duke needs to improve upon. The entire endowment argument is ridiculous (look at Penn, similar endowment, more students, yet still got rid of all student loans). </p>
<p>I like Duke. I would go here again if I had the choice. But there are some things that could def be changed (i.e. more proactive administration, better financial aid policies, massive over-haul of auxiliary services). Only when Duke stops their "let's see what Harvard did" policy will they become a great school. Quite frankly, I think current leadership is simply too conservative too initiate change.</p>
<p>To be fair, the "added value of attending a school like Duke" is quite an elusive phrase and certainly not quantifiable, as it will vary drastically from person to person. In terms of future earning potential it can have as little as zero effect (or negative effect if you wish to count the excess debt) to as much as being an investment worth several orders of magnitude more than the extra tuition money spent (for instance, if you make the right business connections or take advantage of the opportunities to be recruited by elite firms.) I'm only a junior and I've already had two experiences with being offered extremely competitive internships partly based on the "Duke factor" simply because I would not have formed the necessary relationships had it not been for the vast Duke network. </p>
<p>IMO, as long as you're a person with some sense of direction in life, you're going to find a way to make ends meet if you come to Duke and work hard, regardless of student loans and other initially daunting finances that might seem very intimidating to an 18-year-old highschool grad. Being on a "tight budget" as a college student really isn't a big deal at all, the room and board provides essentially everything you need to get by. Throughout all my time at Duke my bank account generally has less than $50 in it at any given time and it just hasn't been an issue.</p>
<p>I seriously hope that my finaid will increase significantly becuz if my brother goes to college next year, my family will not be able to pay for both kids at this price...otherwise i might have to transfer. which is currently my plan. if i cant get enough even after my brother enrolls, i might just transfer elsewhere.
when i plugged in my family's income sitaution on collegeboard's financial aid estimator, it came out way different from the amount i got from duke. almost by 25000. really strange. any ideas?</p>
<p>NEW BUDGET INCREASES FINANCIAL AID FOR DUKE STUDENTS
WRAL, May 11 -- Duke's Board of Trustees voted on Saturday to approve a
budget that designates $86.4 million - an 18.8 percent increase - to
financial aid for undergraduates.
New</a> budget increases financial aid for Duke students :: WRAL.com
-Also, Duke News & Communications: Duke Trustees Approve 2008-09 Budget
Duke</a> Trustees Approve 2008-09 Budget</p>
<p>I agree with CNI...the $125-200 tax bracket families are supposed to pay full price at Duke.
Yes, you will receive a good education at Duke....but is it worth more than $200,000? Will you be much better off than if you go to a university that costs half as much?
I, myself, thought about it long and hard and decided that NO it is NOT worth it.
Which is why I sent Duke my "thanks but no thanks letter" and as a result somebody got off the waiting list and is facing similar questions now.
Good luck</p>