Discussing My Application

Applying to College
1

Hi everyone,

I’ve been trying to practice telling my story and portraying myself in the best possible light (not necessarily done below, as I’m trying to understand the situation above all else), so I thought it would be really helpful to engage in a discussion about my application and why I am weaker than most applicants.

Info:
Straight As through everything, 33 ACT, two subject tests in fall, recs should be pretty good considering I’m doing online school, Canadian full pay, family history should help me out quite a bit, six years and a summer to finish school (first three years were really bad for me, only completed grade 9 p/f), full APs for senior year, almost full APs for junior year, in summer school right now, no APs before junior year.

Background:
Almost six years ago, I started grade 9 with my mom and my brother. We did homeschooling, which consisted of four core pass-or-fail classes that my mom would teach us. It quickly fell apart. We only did like 20 minutes of course work a day and it took me two years just to finish my grade 9 courses. I did another 5 months (grade 10) but didn’t get far and decided to pretty much give up. It wasn’t working. I was either spending all my days at home playing video games or at my lake having a good time-- academics were nonexistent. Spring came around and I was feeling pretty bummed out. I felt like my potential was extremely high, yet I was about to drop out. After some talks with my dad, I tentatively-- I say tentatively because our expectations were so low that we weren’t too confident-- decided to start up school again, but this time I would be entirely in control and everything would be through an online accredited school in America. Despite having to do another three years (six total) of high school all by myself, I started to excel. I got straight As, I enjoyed myself, and I stayed on top of my courses even when we traveled. I kept this same pattern going to this day, always pushing myself harder and harder.

I work every day at my cottage in northern Canada, hoping to wake up early enough to finish school before everyone is ready to have some fun.

Why I (kind of) think that I have a chance at top schools:
this is going to sound really arrogant. I apologize. It’s not my intention and I have incredible respect for all other applicants. However, I think candor is the best approach here.

I’m genuinely having troubles understanding why my application is considered worse than a lot of applicants. I know it is-- almost everyone has told me that, but I can’t quite figure out why. From my point of view, I see my stats in the context of my environment and am really proud when compared to other applicant’s stats in their context. I had no expectations apart from “dropout.” I had to work at a lake or on vacation where the last thing I wanted to do was school. I had no accountability, meaning I could have fallen extremely behind. I had to work when everyone around me was waking up at noon and sitting around watching TV or playing outside all day. I don’t understand how someone can look at stats and not see the advantage (I think) I have. Literally, nobody from a few years ago (including myself) would believe it if you told them I would be in a position to apply to a top school.

My parents didn’t really care if I dropped out and lived off of them and their money-- in fact, they expected it. After doing three years of failing, I could have said “screw it” and went boating all day every day at my lake. I could have taken the easiest courses, which would have taken me only an hour per day to complete. I could have not taken the ACT and go to my local college. But I didn’t. I decided to push myself as far as possible for no real reason apart from personal goals. These choices I made were not encouraged by anyone or anything apart from my drive to succeed. I was so incredibly alone in the process and made myself from a dropout to an applicant at Brown-- I feel like that is worth something.

Tl;dr: Who would you want running your business, a trust fund kid who took over their parents’ billion dollar company and managed it well, or a kid who started their own million dollar company from the ground up. An argument could probably be made for either, and it is a poor analogy with plenty of false-equivalencies, but I think you get my point: context changes everything. I think a lot of other applicants are incredible and I really respect them, but I’m having troubles understanding how I’m at a disadvantage when the context is taken into consideration.

ECs:
This is where I can understand my application can fall slightly behind. But, I would ask you to name any trait that a person will have demonstrated through an EC and I can try to make an argument for how I’ve done the same.

I have done a lot of stuff like put in and take out four docks and boat lifts in 50-degree water for three elderly neighbors every year since I was 5. Lakelife for me, living at a shared cottage with five other families (very rarely all they all up at the same time), has taught me so many incredible life skills. There is a lot of work to go around: tarping and caring for boats; getting gas; cleaning up top-to-bottom every time we leave, so like once every two weeks; getting a ton of groceries and packing up to road trip up to the lake every few weeks; etc. I also chop down small trees in the village and sell the wood as a small job. I’m looking for more ECs to do this summer.

Schools:
Brown (behavioral decision sciences), Stanford (symbolic systems or product design), Dartmouth (econ or cs), USC (Marshall), Northeastern (business or something), Amherst (psych and econ), Tufts, Babson(ED?). If I don’t get into one of those I’ll just go to one in Canada.

Tl;dr: Similar stats but no conventional ECs that most applicants have. I think that my personal context of doing everything by myself and transforming myself from a dropout to an applicant at top schools can carry my application. I was at the bottom and made my way to the top with no accountability, no real help, and with plenty of disincentives; I think that this can boost my application because most applicants have plenty of expectations and are pushed to become Ivy-material. My lake lifestyle and sharing a cottage with my extended family can (hopefully) make for a great essay in which I can describe my character.

I think my stats, story, and essay can be better than most applicants, but I think my ECs are weaker than most. If you have any comments I would love to discuss them with you!

Thanks for reading this wall of text. Again, I am sorry if I came off really arrogant. If I dance around the issues I have, I don’t think I will achieve much from this thread

.

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my guess would be that your essay and interviews will be where you shine. other questions though: you will be applying internationally right? I am not positive about the process for international students regarding these things but that’s another aspect to consider. Also there are some amazing Canadian schools where you will be paying a lot less, why have you dropped that idea?

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@averageapp1852

Correct! I’m actually in the process of getting more information on international applications and what I have to consider.

Generally, it’s because of the programs offered. I fell in love with some in the United States and most in Canada can’t really compare. I honestly couldn’t live in Toronto, Calgary or Montreal, which limits my options quite severely. I’ve been having some troubles finding good schools (for me), considering all these variables. I’d imagine I’ll likely end up at a school like Waterloo or Simon Fraser.

My family can afford either and they are actually encouraging me to not worry about money at all (I’m extremely blessed!).

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You say you can’t live in Toronto, Calgary, or Montreal yet you have schools in Boston, Providence, and Los Angeles on your list. If you don’t want a school in a city then those are not good choices for you.

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You will need to make the most of your essays. And don’t make it about how what you did was better or harder than what others did – everyone worked hard who’d applying to these schools (even that trust fund kid from the uber selective boarding school). Focus on what you accomplished. I like the idea of an essay that references how you spent your time and what you were thinking about then. You have an interesting back story. This should be an asset to you, not the chip on your shoulder.

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@me29034
I wouldn’t say that’s the case. It’s not that I don’t like big cities-- I love Vancouver, LA, San Diego, and almost every other big city I’ve visited. It’s just a cultural thing with Toronto and Montreal. Calgary is more of a personal thing for me. I’m visiting the east coast this summer so I should be able to get a good feel for everything there. Thanks for the comment, regardless.

@gardenstategal Understood. Thank you. I never planned to compare myself against other students (except, maybe, in the ‘why homeschool section’ that some school require); I really wanted to compare myself here because, to be honest with you, I’m really confused why I’ve consistently been chanced at much lower odds than a typical applicant. I’ve come to terms with it, and I definitely trust everyone saying it-- I just don’t quite understand it.

My essays will be about lake-life and the past few years for me. I hope that I can write a really good story about how life works and who I have become over the past few years.

Thank you for the comment!

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You’ve hashed this out over several previous threads. Your stats are on par, and you can write a good story. Take your shot with those as your gifts.

"I’m genuinely having troubles understanding why my application is considered worse than a lot of applicants. I know it is-- almost everyone has told me that, but I can’t quite figure out why. "

  1. I think you are still underestimating the importance of extracurriculars. Great stats and supurb academics are a baseline for admissions. Most applicants stand out (or not) based on what they do outside of school. You've got some boating skills, but you're not even marketing those correctly. Have you earned boating certifications (in the US it would be a Coast Guard certification)? Have you won any notable waterski, sailing, or fishing competitions? None of those will tip the needle per se, but they will show that you pursued your passion beyond happenstance of your parental habitat.
  2. None of the schools you listed are known for assigning points for being a late bloomer. Almost everyone with those great stats worked very hard and exhibited great determination to get them, and given your fairly comfortable socio-economic status, the fact that it took you six or seven years instead of four is not a point in your favor. In fact, doing it on your own time and pace is an indulgent luxury that most wealthy kids aren't even permitted. Doing it within the traditional four-year schedule while your parents are each working two jobs, when tutoring or test prep or online classes are not in the budget, and you might get to one activity a week (if that) because you have to watch your younger siblings and prepare them dinner every night - that's the grit that impresses.
  3. One of the questions admissions officers often ask themselves is, "Would I want this person as a roommate?" As someone 3-4 years older than the traditional applicant, that's got to give them pause. I am honestly not sure I would be happy with my freshman rooming with a person that much older.

I’ve said before… you tell a good story. If that’s the tool God gave you, then use it. Just be sure to have some solid match and backup schools on your list.

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@Groundwork2022 Thanks for the help!

Sorry for the repetitiveness, I’ve tried to wait a while in between posts so I don’t flood the forum. I don’t get many (or any other) opportunities to talk about my story, so I really like coming on here to discuss it in greater detail. There’s a lot of self-discovery that I’ve been making on this forum just by simply writing.

  1. Fair enough. Not many competitions where I'm at. I do have my boating license and take some family members out quite often, but I'm not sure if there's anything impressive that I can tell about boating.

For the sake of brainstorming, would you suggest I do things like try and develop some products for the passions I enjoy? I wouldn’t really be able to pursue boating/surfing/fishing/etc to the point where it would be too impressive, but I could definitely develop some products and do some entrepreneurship stuff within these fields. Good idea or could my time be better spent somewhere else?

  1. I would strongly disagree with this. I didn't take 6 years to finish grades 9-12. I took 3 years to finish grade 9 and another 3 to finish grade 10, 11 and 12. I didn't even think about being a 'late-bloomer;' that's not really the point I am trying to make. I'm trying to make the case that I chose to do three more years of school and finish it, despite the fact that I failed for three years and had the option to completely bail and live off my family. I like to talk about expectations; at that point in my life where I made the decision to start up school by myself, everyone in my life expected me to drop out and live off my wealthy parents. Everything was against me and nothing was really helping me (except for the wealth that provided me with a good test prep program and enrollment to begin with).

I really don’t mean to sound arrogant here-- I’m sorry if I do-- but I genuinely think that if you put thousands of kids in my situation, they wouldn’t be where I am right now. I have a massive amount of respect for those kids who are working their butts off on ECs and stuff-- I’m not trying to take anything away from them; however, I think that their environment, their expectations, their teachers, their peers, really helped them through the entire process.

  1. Totally understandable. I forgot to mention, I skipped a grade in elementary school. I will only be 19 in freshman year. If this is still an issue please let me know. I haven't even thought about it :confused:

I really appreciate all the help and kind words. Enjoy the rest of your night;)

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“For the sake of brainstorming, would you suggest I do things like try and develop some products for the passions I enjoy? … Good idea or could my time be better spent somewhere else?”

Late changes and additions to ECs usually signal changing interests or exploring something new. There is nothing wrong with that, but do be careful at this point because you don’t want to come off like you are only doing it to check boxes. It is sort of pointless to start a business that will have to shutter when you leave for college. Inventions always look good, but you would probably need a patent or proof of sales for it to catch an AO’s interest. Personally I wouldn’t worry about it. Go for a respectable, but lower tier school, become the big fish in the pond there and save the prestigious college for grad school. You’re in a solid position to do this both academically and money-wise.

“I didn’t take 6 years to finish grades 9-12. I took 3 years to finish grade 9 and another 3 to finish grade 10, 11 and 12.”

Spin it however you’d like, but 3+3=6. Remember, the AO is only going to spend 8-10 minutes on your application, and a lot of the good stuff will get glossed over if you waste time trying to argue 3+3 = 3+3 ≠ 6.

“everyone in my life expected me to drop out and live off my wealthy parents”

This is pretty far off the norm culturally, so understand that AOs may be skeptical or unsympathetic. Don’t bring it up - avoid that red flag altogether.

"I genuinely think that if you put thousands of kids in my situation, they wouldn’t be where I am right now. "

I disagree, but no matter. It is completely hypothetical and therefore an unfitting selling point to present. My suggestion is to use your excellent writing skills to explain how your younger and less mature self happened to be a terrible match for homeschooling. Tell what changed, how you got and stay motivated, and what you’ve achieved academically since. Give it a shot, but also give serious consideration to a less selective college followed by a superstar grad school.

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@Groundwork2022 I can’t tell you how much I appreciate this comment. I can’t say I was looking for anything more than what you’ve given me in this thread, so I want to thank you for that.

Everything you said I will be noting and taking into heavy consideration during my application. I truly want to thank you!

Enjoy the rest of your evening.