With regard to the “peer” list, it may be that a number of applicants to Colgate, Hamilton, etc have also applied to SUNY Geneseo as an instate financial safety, with few actually intending to go there. Geneseo might actually be talking about overlap, rather than a truly “peer” institution.
Can Geneseo be sued for it? Most anyone can be sued for just about anything, but the case would almost certainly be dismissed. And what would be the point of a suit when the Common Data Sets are available for all to see?
Just read a CC post from March 2014 regarding Fall 2014 admission that read, “Acceptance letter indicated that the number of applications this year was overwhelming: 10,000 applications received for 850 spots.” Apparently, SUNY Geneseo sent out acceptance letters last year with a lower number for anticipated class size than noted in this year’s letter. Geneseo enrolled 1,215 students in Fall 2014, 365 more students than anticipated, according to their letter. Moreover, according to the Common Data Set, there were actually 9,305 applicants for Fall 2014, not 10,000 applicants, as noted in last year’s acceptance letters (a bit more of a difference in reported versus actual numbers than one would expect from rounding numbers).
The fact that SUNY Geneseo now notes an incoming class of 900 students this year may not, therefore, be an indication that the college plans on reducing the size of the incoming class this year relative to the last couple of years. It does make one wonder if, rather than 9,000 applicants this year, the actual number may ultimately turn out to be closer to, say, 8,305 applicants.
Does anyone know if there tend to be such discrepancies between projected vs. actual enrollment numbers at colleges and universities generally?
my friend has an 1800 i think. didnt even send in his sat scores officially from CB, though it mustve been mentioned somewhere on the suny portal… and he got in… 94ish gpa with a semi rigourous courseload, virtually 0 ECs
@ggwpafk823, Geneseo states on its website, “• SAT and/or ACT results (these may be submitted through the testing agency or on your high school transcript)”. As long as it was listed on his academic transcript, that requirement was met. SUNY Geneseo rates standardized test scores and the academic rigor of coursework as very important factors, GPA and extracurricular activities as important factors in admission selections.
So the freshman entering class of 2014 was over 40% larger than what students were told in their acceptance letters? It’s hard to believe that this is because the yield was much higher than they anticipated. I’m sure there will be well more than 900 entering freshman this fall as well. Total number of applications probably includes transfer applications, which is why it’s higher than reported in the Common Data Set.
@dcalb1, respectfully, I’m not sure that I agree that the number they include in the freshman acceptance letters may include transfer applications because they clearly state that the numbers are for students in the class of 2019 and the anticipated graduation date for transfer students would be the class of 2017 or 2018.
I may look back at CC posts from 2+ years ago to see if I admitted students from previous years also shared how many students Geneseo anticipated for their cohorts to better assess whether or not Geneseo consistently underestimates the size of their incoming class. If - year after year - Admissions sends out letters predicting a significantly smaller entering class than actually turns out to be the case, then they are not adjusting their anticipated yield based on established data patterns.
Clearly, Geneseo should know the number of students who applied to the college when they send out the letters. It is understandable to round, but for the Fall 2014 cohort, with 9,305 actual applicants, rounding to the nearest 1000 students would mean reporting 9,000 applicants, not 10,000 applicants. Does anyone know how common it may be for colleges and universities, in general, to inflate the number of applications they’ve received and deflate the anticipated size of their entering classes in acceptance letters they send to admitted (and perhaps, declined) students?
Much has changed since 2010. The number of high school graduates in the Northeast has declined. Colleges that attract most of their applicants from the Northeast and are not easily able to expand their geographic target groups can be expected to raise admissions numbers to maintain class size. The stock market has improved. That means the endowments of private colleges–and thus their ability to offer grants–has improved. Hence they are in a better position to enroll students who would have been priced out a few years ago. Geneseo has the atmosphere of a small liberal arts college. It offers great return on investment. Based on Naviance at my daughter’s school, there is much overlap between Colgate, Hamilton and Geneseo. There is also overlap between Geneseo and St Lawrence and Hobart. Geneseo is clearly a financial safety for strong students seeking an LAC environment in upstate NY. In years when a financial safety is salient to more students, Geneseo will be able to meet enrollment with lower admissions percentages and their admissions will look more like Colgate’s or Hamilton’s. In years when more money is available and financial safety is is salient for fewer students, their admissions stats will look more like those from Hobart or St. Lawrence.
It appears that Binghamton does not include test scores from a significant portion of students who attend, such as those in the Advanrage program. I suspect including them would drop Binghamton’s scores markedly. Some schools look more competitive because they are less transparent about their data and everything else.
Binghamton Advantage students take their first one or two years of classes at Broome County Community College. They stay on the Binghamton campus but they are not Bing students until they transfer.
What does it mean to be a student at a college? Advantage students pay Binghamton room and board. So Binghamton is able to fill its expensive dorms without the obligation of providing an education. Students pay about $15,000 in room and board and they attend classes at a school that has open enrollment. lol. so they fill their dorms and the seats vacated by students who left but don’t have to include the scores of these 200+ students or the scores of EOP or International students when they publicize their 25%-75% ranges. But these students will be in the upper level courses with Binghamton students after these students have completed 2 years in a community college with open enrollment. What does it mean to get better than a 3.0 at a school with open enrollment? Probably not much. Since these students pay just about the same amount, their choice to attend is likely due to not having other reasonable options at 4 year schools.
A student at a college takes classes at that college, regardless of where s/he sleeps at night.
Most states have articulation agreements to accept community college students with a certain GPA. That doesn’t mean that the community college students’ high school test scores are included with freshman scores.
As for EOP and international students, I didn’t know that their scores aren’t included in the 25-75 ranges. Evidence? Is this a widespread practice?
nothing would surprise me at this point regarding accepted practices. seems these bastions of integrity will do just about anything to protect the ridiculous trough of money they all have their snouts in. presidents multi miliion$$ deans all over the place at 300 400 500k $$$+ salary have a deep rooted interest in keeping their fiefdoms. remember, it’s all for the kids it’s all for the kids. keep repeating. they actually have deans of lbgtqaen or whatever they call it, all for you to pay for. so, would they fudge the 25-75% numbers anywhere? nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Oldmom, apparently Bob Morse, king of the US News and World Report (now Times)rankings has acknowledged that Binghamton does not include all its scores. That does not refer to the Advantage scores-It seems to be EOP, International students and perhaps others.
The 2020 profile doesn’t really shed any light. There is a number of apps and class size, but no number accepted. With a 20 percent yield, it’s reasonable to think the acceptance rate was again north of 50 percent.
I think Geneseo is one of the best deals out there.
I agree with @Meismom that it could be about money. Not only are endowments fatter now, but parents are feeling much more financially secure now than they were in 2010. So they’re probably more likely to go for a private LAC over Geneseo.
Enrollment did go up by 207 students over the period 2010 - 2014. I’m sure it’s a tricky game trying to increase enrollment without affecting the admissions rate and yield.
If you suddenly accept more students, then your admissions rate goes up, which makes your school less desirable in the eyes of some people. Now your yield goes down. So you have to accept even more students next year to fill the seats. The admission rate takes another hit and the cycle repeats.
If you’re a state school, experiencing budget cuts, and you can’t buy high stats students to offset the effect of the slide in admissions rate, you’re in a pretty tough spot.
I’m glad I don’t run a school. That must be a nightmare
If I WERE running a college, I’d hire a bunch of slick marketing kids to go around to the high schools and explain that these numbers mean absolutely nothing, and that the same professors are at the school, the same rigor is in place, and nothing has actually changed. And I’d do that before the average SAT score of the admitted kids actually changes, because that would be a real change at the college. But it probably doesn’t have much of an impact if the change is small.
One problem. It’s hard to hire a bunch of slick marketing kids when you’re experiencing budget cuts:-) I’m glad I’m not a school administrator.
