<p>The system might as well be a clown at this point. I don't even have to try to make it look silly.</p>
<p>How is it that EVERY SINGLE THREAD becomes another top ten debate?</p>
<p>People, you need to realize the fact that, regardless of whether it is right or fair, it is the law and it ain't changing. Learn to live with it and beat the system instead of complaining about it.</p>
<p>
[quote]
How is it that EVERY SINGLE THREAD becomes another top ten debate?</p>
<p>People, you need to realize the fact that, regardless of whether it is right or fair, it is the law and it ain't changing. Learn to live with it and beat the system instead of complaining about it..
[/quote]
IT seems that your the only one around that is actually FOR the top ten percent rule. I see no debate here, nobody likes it, I was just saying it did what it was set out to do, but its still a messed up law. It really seems like your trying to create an argument... </p>
<p>And I know this is a grandeur example, but if nobody questioned slavery, and just lived with it, or pretty much anything that was messed up with this country, nothing would change. </p>
<p>And since when is this not able to change, Texas is pushing every legislative session to get it change. This isn't a scientific law, it can change.</p>
<p>No, actually 85% of Texans and their legislators don't want to change the law.</p>
<p>And there has not been a push in every legislative session to change the law. The only session there has been any attempt to modify the law is the current session, and that attempt failed miserably.</p>
<p>And simply comparing the top ten law to slavery stupefies me. I am absolutely dumbfounded that you could even BEGIN to make that comparison.</p>
<p>I'm not trying to create an argument. I like educating people about the law, because many people are poorly informed about the law and what it exactly entails. But this board isn't going to do anything about the law. You are hijacking a post about diversity and complaining that an admissions policy is unfair, and then have completely started a tangent which isn't connected to diversity from that. There's no need for that. If you want the law to change, you should write to legislators and convince them that they ought to commit political suicide and hurt their constituents' chances of admission to top universities so some kid in Plano or Sugar Land or Round Rock or wherever can have a "fairer" shot at admission than his $250k yearly income and Karen Dillard's and AP classes and extracurricular opportunities provide, by all means go ahead and do so. It's at least proactive.</p>
<p>I have written my misguided senator and told her that, perhaps to her surprise, her district on the whole does not resemble her own West Plano neighborhood (though of course not that bluntly) and that the law has tremendous advantages for a large number of her constituents. Sadly, somehow District 8 to her only means Plano, and not the rest of the district which acually outnumbers Plano.</p>
<p>But yes, changes will certainly be proposed, debated, and discussed next spring, and you should absolutely write your legislator to tell him your opinion. The fact that this non-issue which won't change in the slightest will be a huge part of the agenda is a sad statement of the condition of our once proud Lege that can't fund children's health insurance and can't keep the cost of attending an IN-STATE university under twenty thousand. </p>
<p>Where have you gone, Bob Bullock?</p>
<p>85% of Texans don't even know enough about the law to have an opinion. The whole problem is that the Universities don't agree with the law. If everyone was all happy and skippy about the law, then your right, there really could not be any room for change. But because the law is making admission outside the top ten percent into UT Austin ridiculously more difficult than even the university wants it to be. While being in the top ten percent is a good achievement, UT doesn't want to limit their admissions strictly to that. </p>
<p>If they didn't have to regard everything so heavily on rank and SAT, I know I would have actually done something beyond the bare minimum requirements in high school. I wasn't top ten percent, but I knew I could still get in, so I didn't bother becoming that well rounded student. It would have hurt students like me, but with 8 community service hours, compared to hundreds that some people have, even I feel bad that I had it so easy.</p>
<p>foxshox,</p>
<p>I like the top 10% law! My children are in one of the very large and very competitive school districts in Texas with a 1000+ in a senior class. My children knew the rules when they started high school. They knew they would have to work harder than their peers to be in the top 10%. My son is one of the top 10 students in his class and my other child is in the top 5% so far.</p>
<p>I know that the top 10% law has forced my children to study and work harder, and I'm sure it has encouraged other students in Texas to do the same.</p>
<p>
[quote]
foxshox,</p>
<p>I like the top 10% law! My children are in one of the very large and very competitive school districts in Texas with a 1000+ in a senior class. My children knew the rules when they started high school. They knew they would have to work harder than their peers to be in the top 10%. My son is one of the top 10 students in his class and my other child is in the top 5% so far.</p>
<p>I know that the top 10% law has forced my children to study and work harder, and I'm sure it has encouraged other students in Texas to do the same.
[/quote]
You know because if there wasn't the top 10% law, they could just slack off and do nothing, and still make it into UT. They have no actual standards otherwise.</p>
<p>Say what?
(10 char)</p>
<p>I'm writing for a top 4-5%</p>
<p>Colleges get more space to admit, kids still get admitted.</p>
<p>I think mine is Sam Johnson... wait...</p>
<p>sam johnson is a U.S. congressman...so that wouldnt be the right guy to write to.</p>
<p>If your US Congressman is Sam, and your handle is westsidewolf, I'm assuming you live on the west side of Plano, so your state senator is most likely Florence Shapiro of district 8 (she lives in West Plano and was formerly mayor).</p>
<p>Somehow, Mrs. Shapiro does not realize that the majority of her district is not that similar to the noveau-rich West Plano area in which she resides. My neighborhood, for example, HASN'T been taken over by McMansions, something I think she'd find shocking!</p>
<p>
[quote]
If your US Congressman is Sam, and your handle is westsidewolf, I'm assuming you live on the west side of Plano,
[/quote]
.... From this information I can also assume you like long walks on the beach, your favorite color is blue, your house is painted rosy red, your room is the second one from the right side of your house, your middle name is barry, and you enjoy pistachio ice cream.</p>
<p>This is all very off-putting for the parent of an out-of-stater about to begin his academic career at UTA. My son attends a competitive public high school that requires an entrance exam and is in Harlem, on the City College campus. It is 30% latino, 25% african-american, 15% asian and 30% caucasian. They all are pretty smart, and they all come from families that value education.</p>
<p>In other words, my son is very used to diversity and in fact decided against other colleges that accepted him because the only black people he saw were working in the cafeteria or on the football field. We are under the impression that UTA is comparatively diverse, and that all ethnic groups and races represented are able to handle the academics.</p>
<p>Are we mistaken?</p>
<p>Nobody is saying they can't handle the schooling itself, its more of people(myself including) feel that there are many students who are more deserving of admission who get denied. </p>
<p>I wish I knew how well the top ten percent students fared in comparison to the non-top ten percent students, but I doubt they would ever release those numbers. And if they did, then link me please someone.</p>
<p>But there are some races that are over represented(asians), and some under represented(hispanics and african americans), and unless they resort to some kind of "race quota", that will never change. While it is diverse, your not going to see the kind of numbers at UT that you saw in the high school your son went to, just never going to happen.</p>
<p>The following is the URL to UT's top 10% reports.</p>
<p>Admissions</a> Research: Top Ten Percent Reports - UT Austin</p>
<p>Reading these reports is like drinking water from a fire hydrant.</p>
<p>Wow... the data still needs to be filtered more, but still crazy statistics. It makes it harder to argue against the top ten percent rule. Though its hard to filter out those who "belong" and those who "dont belong" that got in through the top ten percent rule.</p>
<p>I see it just fine, and in fact (unless I am high on pot, and I'm not), every year those top 10% kids are having lower GPAs while non top 10% kids are having higher. How's that?</p>
<p>Sedna, that's just not true.</p>
<p>If you read the documents, you can see that the average top-ten GPA is usually about 3.2-3.3 and the non-top ten GPA is about 2.9-3.0.</p>
<p>Top ten kids, it has been demonstrated, have higher academic success at UT.</p>
<p>So you must be high on pot...</p>
<p>Its obvious that the top ten percent kids should have a higher GPA, because it would be stupid to argue that all the top ten percent kids are dumber then the non top ten percent kids. There are kids that don't deserve to get in the top ten percent, but a lot of them should get in regardless, so you can't argue for the top ten percent rule, just by saying the top ten percent kids perform better... they should. </p>
<p>But Sedna is trying to say that the GPA for the non-top ten percent kids is going up in comparison to the previous years, and the top ten percent kids' GPA is going down as compared to previous years. I am not really seeing a linear trend, but I guess it technically is happening very little.</p>
<p>
The mean SAT scores of entering Texas high school students track basically as Sedna describes, from Table 3 of <a href="http://www.utexas.edu/student/admissions/research/HB588-Report10.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.utexas.edu/student/admissions/research/HB588-Report10.pdf</a>
I didn't include all the data you can see in Table 3, but the four years I list below suggest two linear trends heading in opposite directions.</p>
<p>Mean SAT Score for "Top 10%" Texas hs grads enrolling at UT
1997 1249
1999 1231
2002 1226
2006 1220</p>
<p>Mean SAT Score for "Non-Top 10%" Texas hs grads enrolling at UT
1997 1180
1999 1193
2002 1222
2006 1257</p>
<p>Not sure what to make of this, but I wanted to say that I am seeing something similar to what Sedna described, but I am not sure if she meant HS GPA's or UT GPA's.</p>