Divorced Parents disagree about Applying ED

<p>Actually, I think it was wise for the kid to apply ED – it protected him from the predictable interference of the step-mom and a protracted fight in the spring. Kid wants to go to his top choice college. His mom agrees, and his father probably also would like to see him at his top choice. Step-mom doesn’t give a rat’s ass about the kid’s welfare (we know that from the way she writes about him here – she has not spared one kind word for him) – and she’s demonstrated a willingness to interfere with college admissions by her contacts with the ED college, trying to knock his app off track there. </p>

<p>So the kid can have a done deal now, or a huge fight in the spring with a lot of pressure to attend his bottom of the list, last-choice safety rather than any of a number of higher ranked colleges he might be admitted to in the spring.</p>

<p>There’s a really easy solution here. The mom and dad sit down and have a cordial, friendly chat in which the dad honestly discloses his current financials, and as parents they agree on what would be a reasonable and expected contribution from them. Mom contributes whatever she thinks her fair share should be, and kid arranges a private interest-bearing loan with rich step-dad to pay off the balance. Rich step dad has the assets to bear the risk, and probably can write the kid a loan on terms that are equivalent or better to the terms he would have with a need based Stafford. </p>

<p>But as long as the step-mom is busy driving a wedge between the husband and son, it’s going be hard to come to terms on this. This isn’t just a matter of short term costs-- it has the potential of impacting the long term relationship between father and son. If son gets forced away from his first choice college, knowing full well that his parents collectively had the ability to pay if not the willingness, and ends up unhappy at Podunk U… the resentment will still be lingering for years to come. If son goes to his top choice college because the stepdad comes in and saves the day – and easy check for him to write – then the son will always know that when push came to shove, his dad let him down and his stepdad picked up the tab… and that will also be there for years to come. Ten or fifteen years down the line there will probably be a daughter-in-law and grandchildren in the picture, and the grandchildren will definitely know which is the preferred set of grandparents.</p>

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<p>intparent, probably not a worry for anyone given the particulars of this situation. This isn’t something that the GC could have prevented, and it’s not a simple matter of the ED applicant suddenly deciding they’ve changed their mind. </p>

<p>If I’m remembering correctly, the divorced couple had two kids, and this is the older one. If that’s right, then I’d guess that the agreement to split college costs goes for both kids. I wonder if the mother is thinking ahead to the ramifications for kid #2.</p>

<p>OP, if your stepson is dead-set on Davidson, have him find out if his stepfather would be willing to make a no-interest loan to your stepson to cover any gaps in funding. Stepson gets to go to Davidson with skin in the game but without massive worries about finances, stepfather doesn’t feel he’s being taken advantage of financially, no need to call in the attorneys. Worth a try…and I see that calmom suggests something similar. </p>

<p>Are there any college savings funds for any of the four children?</p>

<p>calmom, I think you’re being too harsh. I don’t think the OP has said much personally about the stepson, most of her upset seems to be directed at the ex-wife. If it is true that the father communicated to the son that he didn’t consent to the ED application and son and ex did it anyway, then that is completely unacceptable by any standard. I think sometimes one has to take a poster’s word for his or her own situation and in this one, I would be irate, too, whether I loved the stepson with all my heart or not. A lot of people don’t favor ED for very good reasons and I think a situation like this with different income levels would be one of them. We’ve all surely seen situations in which one spouse intentionally did something against the expressed wishes of the other. It’s not even unusual, it’s not like the poster was coming up with some outlandish scenario. I believe her. I don’t think the situation as posted is something that can’t be resolved, though.</p>

<p>Everyone here has their point of view and everyone is entitled to it.</p>

<p>I just want to point out that the birth mother wants to have it both ways. She wants to require that the father pay for half the tuition and she wants to Dickinson to accept her word that the tuition will be paid in full. (I’m assuming this because Dickinson has no agreement from the father regarding the early decision acceptance so they clearly don’t think they need it). To clarify, she has not agreed to pay the tuition in full, she has agreed that the tuition will be paid in full. A fine line perhaps, but an important distinction.</p>

<p>She has decided for the father what he will pay, not only without his consent but against his express agreement. She can’t make this decision for him, that is not what the divorce agreement stipulates.</p>

<p>And as others have pointed out…Dickinson will send a bill to the STUDENT (yes, the bills go to the student). They don’t give two hoots who pays the bill, but unless it’s paid, the student cannot go there.</p>

<p>So…if the family cannot come to an agreement that they will shoulder this bill somehow, then the kiddo needs to go elsewhere and if they can’t pay it at Dickinson, the kiddo needs to find a less expensive option.</p>

<p>This situation might get resolved for THIS coming school year…but there are going to be (at least) three more for this student and a younger sibling. If the money is an issue for either parent at a more expensive school, then let the kids know NOW…and help the student MOVE ON. Stop dragging this out.</p>

<p>^^^</p>

<p>I agree.</p>

<p>* the divorced couple had two kids, and this is the older one. If that’s right, then I’d guess that the agreement to split college costs goes for both kids. I wonder if the mother is thinking ahead to the ramifications for kid #2.</p>

<p>*</p>

<p>Exactly…the OP is right to be concerned that the same problem is going to happen when child #2 goes to college (while #1 is in college). Because of SF’s income, even with 2 in college, there won’t be any aid. So, this family could be expected to pay $50k per year when 2 are in school at the same time.</p>

<p>Considering that the OP estimates that their FAFSA EFC is in the teens, that suggests that paying $50k per year is about half of their gross income. That could mean that 2/3 of the net income is going towards 2 kids in college. :(</p>

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<p>I’m assuming the above reference to paying $50K per year assumes Profile schools where the actual family contribution is MUCH higher than what this OP is able to pay. So they need to find schools where either merit aid is forthcoming to offset some of the costs…or schools that cost LESS.</p>

<p>No one is suggesting they pay 50k. The profile EFC for them is 22k. That won’t change. They will still be able to afford the same amount. Dad promised half. EFC is 22k. Pay the 22k and let kid get loans for the other 5k. Let mother pay her half. And stepmother has been hostile about how spoiled the kid is and he could stand to work /earn etc. Father agreed to send in profile so kid assumed school was okay with dad. Stepmom is the one who is shocked/****ed/resentful…not the dad. Would love to see what they do when “her kids” are ready for college. College is a sacrifice and she doesn’t want to sacrifice for his kid because his ex wife remarried someone rich. Treat all the kids fairly and don’t screw this kid and your life will be richer for it.</p>

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<p>This is the best solution. But I wish it hadn’t been embedded in a wicked stepmother message, calmom. As a stepmother (they’re now grown, with kids of their own) I’ve been in situations where simply voicing my opinion was “driving a wedge” or refusing to cave to outlandish manipulation was “not caring about the child’s welfare.” The OP does sound harsh; if I were in her shoes, I would have left out the frustrated rants and stuck to the details. But from the information she’s given it sounds like a very difficult situation. When my SD went to college at age 20, there was nothing in the divorce agreement. We paid half, her mom (an attorney) paid little to nothing, and my SD took out loans to cover the balance. Years later, she berated her dad for sticking her with loans. Sometimes things just aren’t rational in Divorceland.</p>

<p>Every year on CC there are questions and stories about the wisdom of ED. I have known married couples who disagree strongly about applying ED. There are enough stresses around college admissions without introducing this one if you are not absolutely sure everyone is on the same wavelength and can make the financial commitment.</p>

<p>No one is suggesting they pay 50k. The profile EFC for them is 22k. That won’t change. </p>

<p>???</p>

<p>Where are you getting that their “profile EFC” is $22k?</p>

<p>The profile “efc” for the children in this family is “full pay” because of the step dad’s huge income. It would be “full pay” with 2 or more kids in college at the same time.</p>

<p>So…if child #1 goes to a $50k per year school, then the OP and her H pays $25k. If child #2 goes to a $50k per year school, then the OP and her H pays $50k per year.</p>

<p>So, yes, they will be expected to pay $50k per year IF this willd-haired scheme of the exWife holds and the kids go to pricey privates and the bio dad is expected to pay half.</p>

<p>BTW…when someone has a REAL Profile “family contribution” of - say - $22k. That does NOT mean that it stays at $22k when 2 or more kids are in college. First of all, each school gets to use their own formula, and Profile “family contribution” doesn’t split 50/50 when a second child goes to school…more likely it gets split 60/60.</p>

<p>And…for those who think that CSS Profile schools barely look at the incomes of “second spouses” - this case indicates that that is not so.</p>

<p>I also find it strange that the rich husband isn’t more sensitive to the plight of this other family. If I was a muli-millionaire, I would just offer to pay all costs and be done with this matter. Why would he feel the need to dig the knife into this other family?</p>

<p>That is what the court order requires.
Until the court order is modified, it is unchanged, even when the life circumstances of the parties change.</p>

<p>Dig the knife into the other family? These aren’t his kids. Why should he pay more than his wife’s half (which he is obviously paying since she doesn’t work) when the kids’ own father-- who had a lifetime to save for college-- won’t pay the only big expense he has had to pay because he spent it on a house and lifestyle he can’t afford? </p>

<p>There are a lot of assumptions on this thread but a few that I will point out: 1- There is no reason to believe the divorce agreement was vague. She’s not quoting it and she hasn’t said what his attorney has said. The decree may be VERY clear. We just don’t know what he and his ex-wife agreed to. 2- I don’t know why some people are assuming this man is an idiot. He probably had an attorney and this divorce agreement was signed by a judge. In my area, the judge would look closely at parents who agreed to waive child support because the purpose of the child support is for the children’s best interest-- not for a bigger house and better lifestyle. But if wife #1 was willing to give up child support so her kid’s dad could be closer to them and neither ever went back to court to have the order modified (because, since she’s not working, she could have tried to get more child support), it makes me think that there may have been a history of putting the kids first. 3- It makes no sense that, with over $100K income, knowing you would have to provide for your kids’ college, there is no savings. </p>

<p>As far as your calculations mom2college, it doesn’t matter what the Profile says because he is limited to half tuition or half expenses. Most intact families on cc with an income of around $100K income would be happy to pay $25-ish for a private education.</p>

<p>* Father agreed to send in profile so kid assumed school was okay with dad.*</p>

<p>I may have missed this, but did the dad do CSS Profile or did this family not bother to apply for FA because they knew that they wouldn’t qualify? </p>

<p>Either way…because of the step-dad’s income, when there are 2 kids in school the family contribution for 2 kids will go up because they will be “full pay” even with 2 in school. </p>

<p>Wealthy families aren’t given a $99k “family contribution” for CSS schools. They’re just given a family contribution of the COA of the school. So, when they have 2 in school, they can be given 2 “full pay” family contribution amounts.</p>

<p>*As far as your calculations mom2college, it doesn’t matter what the Profile says because he is limited to half tuition or half expenses. Most intact families on cc with an income of around $100K income would be happy to pay $25-ish for a private education. *</p>

<p>AND…when child #2 goes to college (while #1 is still in college) this family will be expected to pay ANOTHER $25k ($50k total per year). Not many $100k income families would be happy to pay $50k per year when there are over-lapping years. </p>

<p>I agree that the dad should have been saving for college. And, it could be argued that maybe he shouldn’t have had 2 MORE kids (with wife #2) when he was already financially commited to pay for his first 2’s college costs which would be difficult for him. </p>

<p>But…I don’t get the feeling that the OP and her family have been living lavishly. It sounds like they had to move to a more expensive area in order to share custody and the kids would be near their school. They have 7 people living under one roof (3 adults). They can’t live in some tiny 2 bedroom apt.</p>

<p>And when I asked why the wealthy dad would want to “dig the knife”…what I meant is that the bio mom obviously knows that the bio dad can ill afford this school, but she’s getting some kind of “pay back” by pushing this. However, the stepdad shouldn’t have a dog in the hunt. So, if this were me and I was the multi-millionaire (and I knew that MY income was preventing any aid) I would step up and pay.</p>

<p>“maybe he shouldn’t have had 2 MORE kids (with wife #2) when he was already financially commited to pay for his first 2’s college costs”</p>

<p>I think this is another assumption. I never read a post from her saying the kids living with them full time are his. They may just be her kids and they may have a non-custodial dad (or a shared custody dad) of their own. But, if they ARE joint kids, you should know that state law varies on how they will be considered. My state, for example, will not take ‘new’ kids into account when considering obligations to ‘first’ kids. The thinking is that the responsibility to the first kids was already there when the ‘new’ kids were acquired and the first kids should not suffer because of the ‘new’ kids. I believe states vary on this but I just wanted to give you one state’s viewpoint. </p>

<p>I am not assuming the OP has been living lavishly; I am just saying that, according to what she wrote, they’re living beyond their means. She’s saying they put what would have been child support $ into a house which she says is expensive because of its location, not its size. So fine, buy a house in a cheaper neighborhood and use the equity for the colleges. Or, if they need to stay close for another 2 years for kid #2 to finish high school, take out a home equity loan for those 2 years and then sell. (It may be a better market by then anyway.) I certainly didn’t mean to imply they HAD To sell; it was just an idea on finding college $ based on what she said about their finances. </p>

<p>You’re absolutely right: assuming the kids both choose privates and are done in 4 years, $100K for each of 2 kids is a lot of $ for college but that’s what they agreed to and, if it was in lieu of child support, it may have been reasonable. Mom, I have a friend whose husband earned somewhere in the low $100Ks and he was ordered to pay right around $50K in child support/alimony a year. (I believe it was a bit over $3K a month in child support and an even $1k/month in alimony.) That’s a pretty typical child support settlement in my area-- about a third of gross income. In the OP’s case, the parents have joint custody so he wouldn’t have been ordered to pay all that. (I know a number of people who go for joint custody on paper just so they can decrease their child support payment.) But I want to point out the kind of $ that divorcing parents are ordered to pay are not necessarily in line with what a normal 2-family household spends on the children. (In the same line, courts won’t order intact families to pay for college tuition but they will order divorced parents.)</p>

<p>As far as what the stephusband thinks… I suspect he WILL end up footing the bill and mom may then just sue dad or maybe mom just wants to push to see what the top figure is from dad. If court is in the picture, I do think IF the agreement is vague (which I’m not convinced it is), he could be ordered to pay considerably less than half of Dickinson (perhaps half of an instate public) but, personally, I’m not convinced the dad has been taken advantage of. (I do think the mom should have taken dad’s finances into account but it sounds like she can piece together the bill with her current husband’s finances.)</p>

<p>You’re honestly suggesting someone take out a home equity loan to finance private college bills when a perfectly good education can be had at a public institution (or a different private!) for tens of thousands of dollars less?</p>

<p>Seriously, that is insane and far, far beyond what anyone should reasonably expect. My parents (income ~$100k, only child) paid for my WUE tuition at an out-of-state public flagship, books and travel. Everything else was my responsibility, and I considered that more than fair.</p>

<p>Attending a $50,000-per-year college is not a right, nor is it anything that 95% of Americans ever expect to do.</p>

<p>Reality check: most kids go to state schools and are happy and have the ability to be successful. Have we learned nothing from the last 4 years? We bought houses that we couldn’t afford, we bought things on credit, we lost jobs, security, retirement plans, for what? No child should be guaranteed a private school full cost education when one family can’t afford it. This family is already supporting multiple children and an elderly parent. why should they risk their other childrens’ futures when a quality education can still be had. If the other part of the family wants to step up, that is great. I also think most people should lay off the stepmother. She has supported this child 50% of the time.
BTW, for tax purposes (IRS rules) when parents have 50% custody, the rule for custodial parent is number of days over higher salary for salary. Take the kid for the rest of the year and claim him on the tax return (and FAFSA). I hope the H wins in court, and the S gets to go to his first choice school, with student loas and work-study. It will probably teach him to rely on himself, since his parental situation is obviously less than ideal.
(I say this with the obvious bias as someone who lost all safety nets in the last few years, so private schools are only possible if my kid earns it though merit aid).</p>

<p>It seems to me that the mom is able to pay whether or not her ex comes up with his share, and she’s likely to be thinking that she is willing to do whatever it takes on her end to finance her son’s college education.</p>

<p>When parents are divorced, the primary custodial parent has a choice. She (or he) can spend all of their emotional energy worrying about whether the ex is paying their fair share; or the parent can decide to move forward, accept responsibility on their own, hoping but not assuming that the ex-partner will contribute as agreed. Since the mom has married a wealthy man, there is no reason for her NOT to take this attitude – her own needs are met, she’ll be able to put her kids through the college of their choice one way or another. </p>

<p>This sort of situation is pretty common with divorce. It’s pretty common for one parent to end up with an inordinate share of the costs because the other parent is unwilling when the time comes. </p>

<p>That doesn’t mean that the mom should give up on her rights under the divorce decree. The fact that her current husband is rich isn’t a legal or moral reason to absolve the father of monetary responsibility for his own offspring. As a matter of principal, it makes sense for her to seek to enforce the divorce agreement – and it’s pretty easy for the father to protect his own interest without interfering with the kid’s schooling. All the dad ever had to do was to write a letter to the mom stating the maximum that he was willing to contribute, briefly stating why that amount is appropriate (for example, “I can pay up to $15,000 per year. That is well over half of the full cost of attending our state flagship university, so it is consistent with the spirit of our marital settlement agreement.”). If the dad pays the amount that he says he would pay, an it comes up short, then the burden is on the mom to seek a court order, and if she acted unilaterally in choosing a more expensive college without the dad’s consent, she’d have the burden of proof as the moving party as to why the greater amount of money was needed.</p>

<p>It’s surprising to see all the strong opinions in this thread, because there isn’t enough information to support them. </p>

<p>All we really know is that the divorced parents aren’t getting along, and that the stepmom is bitter and angry. But even she doesn’t seem to have all the facts.</p>

<p>“You’re honestly suggesting someone take out a home equity loan to finance private college bills when a perfectly good education can be had at a public institution (or a different private!) for tens of thousands of dollars less?”</p>

<p>I am suggesting people not live in houses they can’t afford and I am suggesting that people live within their lifestyle and save money to live up to their commitments. And polarscribe, I agree with you that $50K/ year schools are not a right but this man signed a contract that requires him to pay something (we don’t know exactly how much) and they don’t seem able to do that for both kids. So I was just suggesting they get rid of whatever it is that is eating all their money. </p>

<p>Mizzbee, the decision of who takes the child as a dependent is probably already in the divorce decree but if it isn’t, yes, if they took the boy for the rest of the year, they could claim him on FAFSA (regardless of whether he’s on their taxes) but it won’t help them with Dickinson. Their income is too high for federal grants and Dickinson is a profile school.</p>

<p>Calmom, I agree with you. From what I have seen on this thread, the mom hasn’t tried to take the dad to court for additional $ over the years so I wouldn’t be surprised if she doesn’t go to court if he comes up with $15K or so. Frankly, I think the boy applied to Dickinson ED because, in the end, mom will figure out a way to make it happen. I suspect mom may be trying to figure out what dad’s top figure is but stepmom isn’t happy with the agreement, especially because if they tap out on child #1 and child #2, there won’t be much money for her kids.</p>