<p>Our third and final child will be off in the Fall, and we once more are dealing with Acceptances and Financial Offers.
We are still amazed at the variability of award offers. Fortunately Child #3 got a great package form the private school he will attend, with 89% in gift aid. (Sadly. our EFC is very low.) He also got comparable though slightly less generous offers from two other private schools.
What surprised us is the award he got from a fourth school which was substantially lower (and at which Child #2 is a student.) It basically doubles the amount of loans which my son would have to take out, and even then left a $17,500 shortfall.
We understand that not all schools can meet 100% of demonstrated need, but what's the point of taking all of the financial aid info, calculating an EFC, and then preparing an offer that is 30% short of what would be needed to attend? Do they not believe the information they receive? Or do they know of some funding sources that we don't?
The difference in loan debt between Child #1 graduating this year (form the school Child #3 will attend) and Child #2 graduating next year is staggering, and depressing.
My question is whether colleges are generally aware of the financial aid offers being extended by their peers, and if so what the recruitment mentality is.
If your endowment isn't enough to let you compete with the "big boys", what good is it for you to make inadequate offers to highly competitive students?
I would think it better to give the top applicants free rides and hope for some big contributions in later years so that you could build the endowment for the benefit of all, while at the same time improving the competitiveness of the school itself.....</p>
<p>What would you rather the school do if it can’t meet need? Reject your child?</p>
<p>Acceptances are usually need-blind anyway. </p>
<p>The school has no idea if you might have a rich uncle or granny that will pay. </p>
<p>Since Child #2 attends this school, what kind of aid doe THAT child get? Is some of the aid merit?</p>
<p>Yes, Child #2 also gets a large chunk of merit aid from this school, but both he and his parents are spending every nickel they have to stay there. We worry about his debt load and his prospects for ever paying it.</p>
<p>I suppose there is always the possibility of an “angel” out there that could fund the shortfall, but I can’t believe that the Financial Aid policy of the school would be designed around that long shot.</p>
<p>I guess I’m more interested in the larger institutional philosophies at play from the standpoint of competitiveness.</p>
<p>Do the schools have a good sense of what their competitors are offering, or do they instead focus simply on what they can do as an institution with the resources they have?</p>
<p>Presumably those are the questions which the administrators are paid big bucks to wrestle with!</p>
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<p>That is the WAY it is at schools that do not meet full need for all students. And even for schools that do…the formulas vary so you will likely find variation.</p>
<p>Do colleges know how their aid stacks up against others? I’m sure most of the schools that do not meet full need are fully aware that there are some that do. It doesn’t really matter. Each college can only do what THEY financially can handle. What other schools do and don’t do is not really of their concern. </p>
<p>The offers are yours to take…or not take.</p>
<p>Fortunately for us the issue is academic (no pun intended), as Child #3 will go to the school that is able to meet 100% of demonstrated need. But I would love to hear the perspective from any administrators out there.</p>
<p>I’m sure this is a subject of perennial (daily?) debate for them.</p>
<p>I suppose there is always the possibility of an “angel” out there that could fund the shortfall, but I can’t believe that the Financial Aid policy of the school would be designed around that long shot.</p>
<p>Again…what do you propose?</p>
<p>Do you think that before a student is accepted, the acceptance committee look over the child’s finances? And, when the school sees that Student has a lowish EFC (which would mean giving more aid that the school could afford), the school rejects the child???</p>
<p>I’m not a school admin, but I can tell you that state schools would not likely reject a low income child because there’s too much political pressure not to do that. But, I know that you’re talking about privates. they aren’t going to reject a kid just because he has a lot of need…UNLESS the school promises to meet need and the school has limited funds. In those cases, the school is “need aware.”</p>
<p>Again…what else can a school without a lot of money to give do when it wants to accept a kid but he has high need?</p>
<p>Fortunately Child #3 got a great package form the private school he will attend, with 89% in gift aid</p>
<p>Thank goodness!</p>
<p>There are plenty of families out there who take out loans, second mortgages, retirement accounts to fill the gap. IMO this is rarely a good decision, but usually possible.</p>
<p>Colleges have enrollment managers who are very aware of the competition. They give the kids they want most the best packages. Admissions rates accepted candidates and FA gives packages accordingly. They know they have a relatively low yield rate for those with big gaps.</p>
<p>The Ivies and a bunch of other schools used to get together to compare offers to students, and coordinate them so that one school wasn’t making a better offer than the other.</p>
<p>They were sued by the DOJ for price fixing (and were also supposedly under investigation for colluding to fix tuition and teacher salaries). They agreed to stop exchanging information in order to avoid going to trial.</p>
<p>[Ivy</a> Universities Deny Price-Fixing But Agree to Avoid It in the Future - New York Times](<a href=“Ivy Universities Deny Price-Fixing But Agree to Avoid It in the Future - The New York Times”>Ivy Universities Deny Price-Fixing But Agree to Avoid It in the Future - The New York Times)</p>
<p>So, no, they don’t know how the other schools’ offers compare.</p>
<p>As for why the schools gap - there is a certain percentage who either have other sources of money that don’t show up on the FA forms, or are willing to take on absurd amounts of debt. For example, a parent might be willing to tap their home equity far beyond the 6% or so that is counted on the forms (publics, and many privates, don’t consider home equity at all), or will take out huge parent loans or whatever.</p>
<p>They certainly expect some not to accept because of financial reasons, but there is a lot of irrational behavior around this and people will do crazy things. You see it all the time here with threads like “Is $80,000 in loans too much to go to XYZ college”.</p>
<p>You are correct in that this is the flip side of the “need blind” acceptance model.</p>
<p>I think if I were running things I would probably maintain the need-blind acceptance, but then review the financial aid applications and make sure that I met as close to 100% of need as possible for the best of the needy students, understanding that the others would unfortunately be offered less.</p>
<p>That would be in the best interest of the school long term, wouldn’t it?</p>
<p>Merit based awards seem not to be too prevalent in our experience, and I’m not sure I like the idea of giving them to high achieving students who don’t have the financial need if it reduces the money available to those who do. But among the pool of needy students, I think a big merit component makes sense.</p>
<p>How would you design your system?</p>
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<p>Best interest of the school? Maybe.</p>
<p>What you describe is exactly what enrollment managers do. They make decisions about how financial aid will be packaged for students who are accepted. </p>
<p>Remember that sometimes the students with the best application packets are using the school as a safety. Enrollment managers have to balance giving money to the “best” with giving money to those they THINK will attend.</p>
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Merit money and need money typically come from different pools. There are those of us who have high EFC’s but could not actually meet them in a reasonable way, so “don’t have financial need” is not as objective as it sounds on the surface.</p>
<p>NYdad, that is exactly what they do. It isn’t always for the kids that have the highest stats, they need a diverse class so if your kid is white and from NYC where they have lots of qualified full pays, they may not “need” your kid enough to give him the aid. The money is used to meet institutional needs.</p>
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<p>This is how it works at most private schools that are need-blind and don’t meet full need. If the schools you discuss work like that, it may be that some of them felt that Child #3 was more important to the class they are building than others. And if that informed his choice of which to attend, maybe that was a good thing.</p>
<p>What you describe is exactly what enrollment managers do. They make decisions about how financial aid will be packaged for students who are accepted. </p>
<p>Remember that sometimes the students with the best application packets are using the school as a safety. Enrollment managers have to balance giving money to the “best” with giving money to those they THINK will attend.</p>
<p>This is very interesting, and makes a lot of sense. The inadequate award package that we got was from my son’s “safety” school, so perhaps it was apparent to them that he was not likely to attend.</p>
<p>Thanks to all for the insights. They really are are fascinating!</p>
<p>The Enrollment Administrator job would be interesting, and challenging. Where do I apply??</p>
<p>Actually at my daughter’s college, the position of Enrollment Manager was a revolving door which leads ME to believe it’s not all that much fun, and not all that appealing of a long term position. </p>
<p>The people in the job there had extensive experience in college admissions, and as financial aid officers PRIOR to applying for and accepting the job as Enrollment Manager.</p>
<p>nydad: I’m no expert, but after getting responses from a number of schools, here are my impressions. 1) At first glance, all the packages my D has been offered are surprisingly close to each other. They may call different components different things, but the net amount we would have to pay is very close for a variety of better known private schools. It’s as if they do know what other colleges are doing. 2) The amounts for my “9/10” D (she’s just not a “10/10”) are far above what we could realistically afford. I assume this is because the schools hope the parents will ultimately give in and pay anyway, somehow. 3) She is now being offered full scholarships to less known schools to which she didn’t even apply-they’re phoning her at home with offers. Free rides at lessor schools are much more plentiful and attainable then partial rides at popular schools.</p>
<p>My opinion? The system leads kids on then mostly breaks their hearts.</p>
<p>One more tidbit. My D’s equals at school who have gotten great offers at the best schools are all going for engineering. I’m starting to think offers depend on the specified major, so be careful which box you check.</p>
<p>*You are correct in that this is the flip side of the “need blind” acceptance model.</p>
<p>I think if I were running things I would probably maintain the need-blind acceptance, but then review the financial aid applications and make sure that I met as close to 100% of need as possible for the best of the needy students, understanding that the others would unfortunately be offered less.</p>
<p>That would be in the best interest of the school long term, wouldn’t it?
*</p>
<p>Well, in your scenario, it still sounds like Child #3 wouldn’t have gotten a great offer from Child #2’s school. It sounds like Child #2 got a good merit scholarship. This could be a situation of preferential packaging for being a very strong student for the school. Child #3 didn’t get such a package (perhaps because he’s a very good student, but just not top for the school).</p>
<p>*<br>
Merit based awards seem not to be too prevalent in our experience, and I’m not sure I like the idea of giving them to high achieving students who don’t have the financial need if it reduces the money available to those who do. But among the pool of needy students, I think a big merit component makes sense.</p>
<p>How would you design your system?*</p>
<p>The issue of merit money to affluent kids is controversial. However, if the money isn’t from regular institutional funds, and is from donors who have given that money specifically to get high stats students on campus, the school has to comply with the donors’ request.</p>
<p>But, even if the merit money is from general institutional funds, the school’s long range strategy may be one that requires these “give aways to the affluent” right now, so that in the future the school will be in “better financial health” and be able to better help the needy.</p>
<p>You see, giving money for high stats reqardless of need are the first dominoes in the line. As those dominoes fall (merit awards for top stats), the school’s reputation improves (middle quartiles rise), then rankings start rising, then even more high stats students enroll, then it becomes easier to attract the better profs to hire, then the better profs are able to snag more research dollars, the alums are thrilled and they give and give. The endowment coffers get very healthy and then the school can be generous with need-based aid.</p>
<p>The school that hasn’t gotten its reputation in place and only gives money for need (probably mostly gov’t aid), will rarely ever improve.</p>
<p>When applicants appeal their aid packages, I imagine that one reason a school asks for documentation on competing schools’ offers is that this provides intelligence about what the competition is offering the same students.</p>