<p>You can tell a lion by its claws. I knew from your earliest posts that I won’t be able to have “fun” with you as I do others. Your last two posts simply confirmed it.</p>
<p>Whenever I want the truth, I look at power relationships and money flow. They don’t usually fail me. There is enormous wealth in Hong Kong and I remember Oxford was there looking for donations as well. If I were those donors, I would use the money to “encourage” behaviours that I want to see. Then again, their children do not face the problems of most Asians.</p>
<p>I think Jews are able to use their considerable wealth (curious how much is TARP money now.;))and political clout to influence elite admission policies. For all intents and purposes, they are part of the ruling elite. Having white skins also allow them to blend in easily. Whether Asians can achieve the same level of success over time is not knowable at this time. My feeling is that they will have a hard time duplicating the Jewish success. For some reason, Asians have a hard time getting away from the “perpetual foreigner” label, something Jews, blacks and others don’t seem to have.</p>
<p>The chancellor of Berkeley is Dr. Birgeneau? He was President of U of Toronto (the neighourhood where I grew up), his alma mater, for a while but was not effective. Being Chancellor may be a better fit for his personality type.</p>
<p>FYI, I graduated in the early 70s in Chinese foreign policy (Mao era). My minor was a combination of logic (philosophy) and quantitative methods. My interest in Asia was rekindled by last year’s Olympic games, and the rest is history. LOL</p>
<p>I didnt choose any time window. I just picked the most recent 4 years as an example. Your belief that the number would remain relatively unchanged over time is due to your complete unawareness of the changes in US demographics, especially in the Asian communities. Had you gone back a couple more decades, you would have reached a different conclusion. In fact, the number of MOPpers and IMO team members for Asians (or other fast changing communities) is a trailing indicator of the larger base of top matheletes, AIME and USAMO qualifiers built up in preceding years. Therefore, it can be argued that a better analysis should use comparisons of IMO team number with the previous years MOSP number and MOSP number with USAMO qualifiers of the year before. (A similar comparison is the womens presence in the upper management in business, which is significantly lower than the female percentage in the middle management and top B-schools. However, the mid management number and top B-school attendance should be a good predictor of future number of female CEOs, unless if you also believe women are intrinsically dumber than men.) Most IMO team members took more than one try to make the team and some took 3 or 4 attempts. Future stars amongst todays top mathelets wont be competing in IMO for another 3 or 4 years. </p>
<p>If you want to see how the numbers changed over the years, here are some real data, the number of east Asians making IMO teams from 1974 to 2009 (numbers expressed as east Asians/total team members):</p>
<p>I dont have the time to do the USAMO or MOSP numbers, a quick glance showed only 2 of the 20 1983 MOPpers were Asians, and the percentage of Asians in two other mid 80s MOSPs (which I took a quick glance) were probably all in the low to mid teen range. If someone has the time and energy to pull out the USAMO and MOSP data, I expect them to resemble the IMO numbers over the last 4 decades, just time shifted back a few years. </p>
<p>But lets go over the old table one last time (with your adjustment, but it doesn’t affect the analysis) and analyze the USAMO -> MOSP data for each year (comparisons between the same students at least).</p>
<p>If this is what you needed to prove to yourself that you descend from some super race and are intellectually superior to East Asians, it is totally fine with me. I just hope that you have some achievements in life which would make your ancestors proud, beside the twelve hundred some posts on CC.</p>
<p>By the way, this years US IMO team finished in the 6th place out of 104 teams, a respectable showing. The 5 teams finished ahead of our US team just happen to be:</p>
<h1>5 North Korea, #4 South Korea, #3 Russia, #2 Japan, and #1 China – all countries situated along the east shore of the Asian continent.</h1>
<p>But this just confirms my point about perceptions’ varying wildly from region to region.</p>
<p>If you like, we can take a look at the leadership of [The</a> Crimson](<a href=“http://www.thecrimson.com/info/about.aspx]The”>http://www.thecrimson.com/info/about.aspx). In News, one of the associate managing editors is Indian, and two of the news executives are Chinese. In Business, one of the advertising managers has either Hong Kong or South Korean heritage, another is Mongolian; one of the circulation managers is Chinese; one of the contract printing managers is Chinese; and one of the operations managers is Chinese. In Design, the director of web strategy is Japanese. In Magazine, one of the associate editors is Korean. In Information Technology, the IT chair is Chinese. In Sports, one of the associate editors is Chinese. In Photography, one of the chairs is Chinese, one of the associate editors is Chinese, and one of the editors-at-large is Japanese. In Arts, one of the associate editors is Chinese.</p>
<p>Unless Harvard is also “quite different from most of the schools we are discussing,” I am not sure how much you can generalize your observations to other populations.</p>
<p>But do you know how many applied and were admitted? If 275 Asians applied to West Point, and all were admitted, I don’t think it proves much about the breadth of Asian applications when you compare it to the 5,000 or so Asians applying to HYPetc, where only 7% or so are being admitted. (I don’t know the exact numbers on HYP applications, just estimating).</p>
<p>As you said, that Jews are white in appearance “allow[s] them to blend in easily.” Moreover, blacks’ being in America since the seventeenth century makes them absolutely American; I daresay only white nationalists would argue that they are “foreign.”</p>
<p>The story for Asians, however, is not the same mainly because we can’t blend in as easily. As a humorous anecdote, I was in the library early this semester when a guy across from me said, “Hey, can I ask you a question?” I didn’t know the guy, but if someone wants to ask a question, I’ll do my best to answer. I’ll never know his motivation, but if you read on, I think you’ll agree with me that he thought I was an international and he wanted to get a kick out of me:</p>
<p>He asked, “What does, ‘You’re a jerk’ mean?” (He didn’t actually say jerk; he used a more offensive term that per TOS, I cannot reproduce. Use your imagination.) Of course, I was quite taken aback. The guy seemed to have South Asian heritage - he had darker skin and definitely wasn’t Western European - but he was no doubt American based on his accent. I replied,</p>
<p>“Where are you from?”
“Kansas.”
“They don’t say that over there?”</p>
<p>At this point, I think he had realized that I’m American, not an international. So he made up what I considered to be an incredibly lame story to bail himself out.</p>
<p>“Uh, well, in Kansas, I’m known as one of the ‘mean people.’ So, uh, does ‘You’re a jerk’ mean ‘You’re a Jerk,’ and 'You’re a jErk, and ‘You’re a jeRk’”?</p>
<p>“Yes, that is what it means. You have understood it correctly.”
“Alright, thanks.”</p>
<p>I’ve never seen the guy since then, so I’ll never know exactly why he wanted to ask that question. But I doubt that he had any motivation other than wanting to see how an international would react to that question.</p>
<p>The “pro[of]…about the breadth of Asian applications” is evident in the high percentages of Asians at schools other than “HYPetc.” As I said, quite a few of the UNSWR Top 20 National Universities have freshman classes that are at least 20% Asian. They wouldn’t have those numbers unless Asians applied there in large enough quantities.</p>
<h1>801, ““You can tell a lion by its claws. I knew from your earliest posts that I won’t be able to have “fun” with you as I do others. Your last two posts simply confirmed it… FYI, I graduated in the early 70s in Chinese foreign policy (Mao era). My minor was a combination of logic (philosophy) and quantitative methods. My interest in Asia was rekindled by last year’s Olympic games, and the rest is history. LOL””</h1>
<p>Did I spoiled the party, and should I go back to hibernation inside my den? Actually, I don’t browse forums much these days, because of time constraints. I enjoy your other messages regarding China, for which I know they are generally factual. But I also find it interesting that your insights are more aligned with genuine Chinese than foreigners peeking from outside. It is rare at least from what I have seen on the Internet or the western media.</p>
<p>““Whenever I want the truth, I look at power relationships and money flow. They don’t usually fail me.””</p>
<p>I like to use the Marines’ approach ----- burning it down before building it back up. The set of ideas can become more robust after proper shaking and smelting. I appreciate your common paradigm across your messages and we actually subscribe to somewhat similar lines of thoughts in more issues than it may seem. Happy Halloween. :-)</p>
<p>I actually think that Asians may assimilate and blend in more quickly than Jews did–especially those Asians who are Christians. I don’t think most white families would particularly object to their children marrying Christian Asians, for example, and intermarriage is one element of assimilation.</p>
<p>Five and under is a “narrow” range, but twenty? That’s stretching it.</p>
<p>We can add the top twenty liberal arts colleges, if you like. According to the College Board, the freshman class of only one school had an “underrepresentation” of Asians: Washington & Lee. Asians are “proportionally” represented at Davidson and “overrepresented” at the other eighteen schools. The “overrepresentation” ranges from mild (West Point) to noticeable (Williams) to pronounced (Wellesley).</p>
<p>Of the top forty national universities and LACs as ranked by USNWR, only one school does not have at least “proportional” representation of Asians, and the freshman classes of many were at least 2-to-1 “overrepresented.” Sounds like lots of Asians are applying to top schools in addition to “HYPetc.”</p>
<p>If we use the asian population in each state as a base reference, the enrollment of asian students in many (if not most) state flagship schools rival the numbers of UC Berkeley and UCLA.</p>
<p>So you’re saying that a “wide range” is bigger than 20 but less than 3,000. I’m chuckling at the two meanings of that sentence.</p>
<p>In any case, how many of these 3,000+ colleges are selective? At least with my bright line of twenty, I’m including seventeen highly-selective schools other than Harvard, Yale, and Princeton (ie. HYP).</p>
<p>I think what people mean is that, supposing one is (for example) interested in engineering: Instead of a “do or die” emphasis on MIT, HYPS, CalTech – there are great additional schools like Cooper-Union, Rose-Hulman, Harvey Mudd, U of Rochester and more (including many excellent publics). It’s the program that’s important, and often the opportunities (internships & placements & exposures & locations) related to those particular programs. Clearly this is true for more than just engineering. I just use that as an example.</p>
<p>On one of the “Race-FAQ” (or similar) threads there was a fairly recent discussion about how supposedly only certain (tippy-top) institutions provided (by way of reputation) significant career opportunities, and that therefore limiting one’s college list to a narrow range was justified…Leading one to believe that at least 100 of the above choices are what, comparatively worthless?</p>
<p>Of course there are hundreds of reputable, commendable schools in America that would garner most people’s respect. And many Asians do attend schools that might not have huge names but are great programs.</p>
<p>The argument that Asians are only applying to the top 20 is not only untrue, but also is self-defeating because even if it held ground, it implicitly suggests that there can be too many of one ethnicity at one school and that in order to prevent this, college admissions ought to pin applicants against others of their own ethnicity. It’s essentially a pro-AA argument used by AA-deniers, an irony that continues to baffle me.</p>
<p>Why should an overrepresented group have to look towards other schools if the only reason to care about their over-representation is their ethnicity? Isn’t THAT racism?</p>
Actually, I don’t browse forums much these days, because of time constraints. I enjoy your other messages regarding China, for which I know they are generally factual. But I also find it interesting that your insights are more aligned with genuine Chinese than foreigners peeking from outside. It is rare at least from what I have seen on the Internet or the western media.</p>