<p>The data is from a recent study of 1997 applicants to seven elite colleges. (Not sure why the recent study used 1997 data.) From the article:</p>
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[quote]
Translating the advantages into SAT scores, study author Thomas Espenshade, a Princeton sociologist, calculated that African-Americans who achieved 1150 scores on the two original SAT tests had the same chances of getting accepted to top private colleges in 1997 as whites who scored 1460s and Asians who scored perfect 1600s.
<p>Of course, the tone of the article implies that SAT scores and GPA are and should be the prime determinant of whom is admitted. Arguably, one could make the case that once some minimum standard was met to insure that the student could do the work, additional academic accomplishment past that point should be merely one of a variety of factors like leadership, community service, athletic or musical ability, and so on.</p>
<p>Elite colleges often have Asian (as well as Jewish) populations significantly out of proportion to their numbers in the general population. So one might also make the argument – a wek one admittedly – that based on overrepresentation they are favored in admissions. No doubt MIT could fill their ranks 100% with Asian-American students with a 3.9+ GPA and 1550+ on the SATs but I’m not sure that would be perceived in many quarters as desirable, particularly in the Asian-American community.</p>
<p>so the discussion here will tend in a different direction. </p>
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<p>Once you start trying to show that everything else that might reasonably make a difference is largely the same, and yet “race” is having a huge impact, that is quite controversial. </p>
<p>Too bad we don’t have explicit statements from college admission committees about just what their policies are.</p>
<p>just because some arrogant hispanic from Queens has a “tough” life he should be given an edge over a slumdog from India who has to go for days without eating, just what is this coming to, affirmative action is creating the same evils it tried to abolish</p>
<p>Oh well, I am an Asian American who has lived a very rough life. I had to live in the deep south where I was the only type of my kind, I wanted to play football but the players on the team did not want me there so they jumped me after practice and told me to go back to my own country. I had to go to a magnet school instead because of that incident in middle school (parents forced me to) and as a result I now have a 3.3 Overall GPA and only made an 1840 on my SAT (which I plan on retaking). The same score that could easily get a Hispanic or Black from the “rough” (I laugh at this) streets of NYC to Harvard or Princeton.</p>
<p>^ My wife is a music teacher, and she doesn’t talk about any ethnicity that is conspicuously lacking in music ability. That seems to be a human cultural universal.</p>
<p>Does anyone know what the seven institutions are? Maybe I skimmed too fast, but I didn’t find them listed in the USNews article, or the pdf file of the original study. When I tried to go to the NACAC site, I couldn’t get past the home page.</p>
<p>“Involved in” is not the same as having talent. If you have talent but your parents don’t see to it that you have piano lessons, and make sure you practice, or if your school has cut out band and orchestra to balance the budget, how can you be involved in music?</p>
<p>Talent is important, but it’s still only one aspect. An average person driven to succeed will ultimately trump a prodigy with no work ethic.</p>
<p>If you think we’re really missing out on lots of talented folks who have been shafted by The System ™, why don’t you fund a program that will seek these people out?</p>
So true. Although I can say from my own experience that a prodigy with mediocre work ethic matches an average person with strong work ethic if I wanted to pursue a career in music I could have been great. but I only want it as a hobby, so I do enough to be considered good. haha</p>
<p>A Chinese friend of mines now goes to UGA. </p>
<p>He had an 800 on the SAT math section, a 750 on the SAT reading section and a 790 on the SAT writing section. A 2340 SAT score. His GPA was a 4.0 (that is just core) and his overall was a 4.2 or something since he took AP classes.</p>
<p>He was a member of the soccer team at our high school, he played tennis as well, he was great at both sports. Also, this kid volunteered at elementary schools in the poor areas of the town and he took his time to teach kids about math. The teachers at that school loved him as a mentor to the kids.</p>
<p>Now my friend got into UGA, Georgia Tech, Emory, Mercer (full ride), UNC Chapel Hill, and Cornell</p>
<p>He did not get into Harvard but yet someone with an 1150 can. I fail to see how life if rough in the streets of a big city. I honestly have been to the Bronx and I mean the poor areas, the life there is average and definitely not as bad as life in a third world slum (especially in Asia). </p>
<p>Life is an unfair game, no matter how far America has come, race is still an issue.</p>
<p>Whether or not life is bad in the slums/ghetto isn’t the point. The fact is, those people are still missing out on opportunities.</p>
<p>Which is why AA should be based on socioeconomical standards, and not race alone.</p>
<p>Also, interpretation for bias should be based on the proportion of one group within the school’s community to the amount of applicants of that same group with respect to the entire applicant pool. So if 10% of Asians make up the applicant pool, then, holding all else equal, 10% of the school’s community should consist of Asians.</p>
<p>It’s abundantly clear that Asians are discriminated against in the admissions process at top US colleges.</p>
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You could make the argument that colleges are biased for students with top grades, top test scores, etc. There are very clear reasons why Asians are getting in at many times the normal rate; without racial affirmative action, I think you could expect the Asian percentage at top schools drift closer to 45% (UC-B’s current Asian population percentage) than the 15% as cited from the Princeton official in the USNews article.</p>
if I wanted to pursue a career in music I could have been great. but I only want it as a hobby, so I do enough to be considered good. haha</p>