Do graduate students overshadow the undergrads?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Illinois Institute of Technology
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My daughter is a high school junior interested in Illinois Tech with a major in electrical engineering. We both like most of what we’ve read about the school, but we are also both concerned about the large percentage of graduate students (I think it’s about 50/50). A lot of schools make a point that they have few or no grad students which gives undergrads more opportunities for research and getting to know profs. She definitely wants to do research in her field and has found a number of professors she might want to work with and research centers/labs she is interested in exploring.

So, what do students think? Do the grad students get most of the attention or is the division pretty equal?

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The ratio of graduate students to undergraduates is actually about 70/30 not 50/50. Most of the graduate students are Professional Masters students, however. These students take graduate courses but are not involved in research. The number of Ph.D. students is significantly smaller than the number of undergraduates and these are the ones involved in research.

Having been on the faculty for over 30 years, I don’t think that graduate students dominate. In fact a lot of the focus is on undergraduates. With regards to research I have always thought that being at a research university, like Illinois Tech, where as an undergraduate you can work on funded research projects alongside Ph.D. students is a big plus for undergraduates. This, of course is possible at a big state flagship too but the smaller student body also provides benefits in the students getting to know the faculty very well. Small schools which are not research universities have undergraduate research as well but it is certainly a different feel than being in a lab with Ph.D. students. Overall, I think the balance we have at Illinois Tech offers students a very good opportunity to get involved in research and to get to know faculty. They can take a 5 year B.S/.M.S. program, they have access to graduate courses that can be taken for electives if they want to have the most rigorous academic preparation for a Ph.D., and they are exposed to a significant international population which can only be a plus in the future.

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My daughter is in her second year at Illinois Tech in an engineering major. She has been offered opportunities to do research. Research is not a primary focus of hers and she was not seeking out an opportunity. I think the opportunities are there for undergrads. She also knows her professors and they know her.

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@xraymancs That does sound like a good opportunity to work alongside grad students. I did look up a few of the research areas she interested in. One seemed to only have PhD students, but most didn’t show the make-up of the teams, just the faculty in charge. I think it would be worthwhile for her to write to some of the individual professors and find out what her prospects might be. My husband and I have also talked about encouraging her to do a 5 year BS/MS program, though for 17-year-old her, five years sounds like a long time!

@Parentof2014grad Offers for research sound promising. I’m really glad to hear she knows her professors well. That is important to my D as well.

To both of you (and anyone else who happens along!), what do you think of the competitiveness in the engineering program. The Fiske Guide mentioned heavy course-load and fiercely competitive atmosphere. Heavy course-load is not an issue (I guess kids wouldn’t go into engineering if it was for them…) But she does like the idea of a more collaborative “we’re all in this together” atmosphere. I don’t want to judge a school by one comment in a guide book, so any opinions on this area?

D will probably apply here, but just deciding whether to do a visit first.

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I asked my daughter on this one. She seemed surprised to hear IIT described as fiercely competitive. She says it depends on the major to some degree. In her major students are encouraged to work together and learn from each other–much more on the collaborative side. She said her roommate is EE and that seems to be more competitive. She would not describe it as fierce.

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I tend to agree with @Parentof2014grad, some students are competitive but that is not the general ethos of the student body and most faculty emphasize absolute performance rather than performance relative to classmates. I have always told the students in my classes and nothing would make me happier than if everyone of them earned an “A”. Of course my standards are high so that might not happen but it would be great to have all students in a class do well.

I don’t think that there is a lot of grade inflation at Illinois Tech and the workload is high for STEM majors, however, I would say that most students are satisfied with the academics here.

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@Parentof2014grad and @xraymancs Thanks for answering my questions – it’s great to have input from a professor and parent!

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Here comes the student input. I am a ChE and EE double major and I just got done with my 3rd year here.

Research Opportunities: I wouldn’t say that there are plenty of opportunities, but a passionate student can always get one! Let me be very honest here. Armour R&D is a paid research program for undergraduates of the College of Engineering. The university is currently going through issues with finances and it has affected most, if not all, the departments and offices. Until two semesters ago, the research program had taken around 25 students. Last fall, the number fell to 19 (I think) and it went further down to 12 in the spring. Since they are taking a limited number of students, they tend to fill most of the spots with new students every semester. As far as engineering undergraduates getting paid research opportunities, it is safe to say that this program is the only one.

There are many professors who have no issue taking undergraduates as research volunteers, though some of them prefer the student to complete certain amount of coursework before being able to work for them. It is indeed a great experience working alongside grad students, PhD students and post docs. Most of them are wonderful people and they are usually willing to help the undergrads.

What qualifications do I have to make these comments? I have been working in a professor’s lab for over a year now. I was funded by Armour R&D for one semester and now I am being paid under “REU” (Research Experienvce for Undergraduates) program. As I said, I study ChE and EE. I work for a MMAE professor in an energy lab (batteries and supercapacitors). I had previously worked for a ChE professor who’s work is focused on the interface of ChE and EE (smart grids, Hybrid Plug-in Electric Vehicles, fuel cells, etc)

Course Load/Difficult and Competitiveness in Armour College: I personally have never found anything too difficult here, but many do say that the curriculum is very difficult. It definitely depends on the individual. And again, I can’t comment on the “heavy course load” topic either because I have been taking course overload (over 18 credit hours per semester) for two years now and I am totally fine with it, though most students find it hard to get by with 15-18 credit hours per semester.

I don’t think that people here want their peers to suffer. Most people help each other and work together. There’s also the TAs, ARC (Academic Resource Center) and other official ways of getting help. And then there are good people like me who are always willing to help out anyone in need ( :smiley: ). On a serious note, I do enjoy helping others learn. The more people who understand the concepts, the wider the scope of intellectual discussion – this is what I strive for in college. In my experience, there is plenty of help available for EE students than ChE students. That’s just how it is.

I hope to see your daughter here before I leave, though I am not sure whether I am going to be here by the time she gets in. I will be studying in Denmark for the next academic year. Oh, there’s just one more thing I need to say. It’s more of a plea than anything. We need more smart women here! Please.

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@hopingforbetter, wow thanks for taking the time to give such a detailed answer! The experience you’ve had with research sounds amazing, but it’s also clear you’re not a typical student (in general). I went to an engineering school and taking over 18 credit hours is crazy hard! Not to mention double major in EE and ChE. I’m glad not all the students are quite that hard-driving.

I’m a bit leery that the paid undergrad research seems to be in decline. But a lot seems good from what I’ve read that D and I will have to think further.

Yep, D has gotten a lot of cheers from people for being a STEM girl. That 70/30 divide is very common at the tech schools where she’s looking. It was 75/25 when I went so at least things are getting better. Albeit S l o w l y

I am jealous of your long stay in Denmark. I do a lot of genealogy work and would love to visit the land of my ancestors – hope you have a great time!