Do I stand a chance with a relatively low GPA [3.35 or 3.55] at ivys and Georgetown?

Chance Me / Match Me!
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Well a PG year costs too - so while it might give you an opportunity to improve, there’s an expense in paying and in a lost year of income.

You are changing the dynamic again. You have three years paid but you need to come up with the fourth.

Let me repeat again - the budget is most important.

There are schools - very good schools - that will get you into any law school int he country - that have auto merit - so you don’t even have to worry about how will you pay.

And then your grand parents money can help you in law school.

You need to focus in - what’s your goal - $20K? $30K? $50K?

You likely need to talk to your mom and grand ma. You are getting ahead of yourself here. Are they able to pay $80K a year? If so, and you spend $30K on undergrad, he can likely pay all 4 years + law school.

Get past the pedigree - and get onto how you’re not going to strangle yourself with debt before dropping names.

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You are very fortunate that there is an account designated for your college costs. It sounds like there’s probably between $225-250k in there, which is such an amazing gift. Depending on how the account is set up (i.e. if you’re listed on the account or as a beneficiary) then it may need to be included in any applications for financial aid. If so, it might be unlikely that you would receive any need-based aid. Perhaps @kelsmom might be able to provide additional insight?

If you do not qualify for additional need-based aid, how do you propose to pay for the 4th year at $80k? College students can take out up to $27k in loans over the entirety of their undergraduate career. That still leaves you short more than $50k.

Additionally, did you speak with your family about whether they would be willing to have your educational fund be used for law school as well as college? Using the same “for instance” as before, if you went to a college that was $35k/year, then you would not only have all of your college paid for without loans (which is really the position you want to be in when you graduate from college, if possible), you would also have almost enough money for a year at an elite law school.

I am not an expert on post-grad years, so others will undoubtedly have better insight for you on that. But I do have a few thoughts, regardless. :slight_smile: Where is the money going to come from for your PG year? If it comes out of your college education fund, that leaves less money for college. Would a good enough performance change your reaches into matches? Highly unlikely. Would it make a difference in your “match” schools? Possibly. Would I do a PG year for any of those reasons? No. The circumstance where I might see a PG year being helpful is if you’re working on your executive functioning skills and you and the professionals around you think you need another year of practice under closer supervision than is likely to happen at a college.

Personally, I would visit some college campuses (small, medium, large, and rural/suburban/urban) if you haven’t to see if you really do want a mid-size to large urban campus. I would also dig in on the websites of some of the schools of interest and look for things that make you excited and that horrify you, as those are things to be paying attention to when you’re looking at any college.

Most regulars on these threads recommend starting the college search by looking for schools where you are extremely likely to be accepted, that your family can afford without loans, and that you would be happy to attend, no matter what one’s stats. For some people, those are the hardest schools to find. Once you find those schools, then you can start looking for more selective ones to add on. But there are some great options at the schools I listed above, and as you can see from the institutions of where the Harvard Law students came from, you can make it to elite law schools from just about any school in the country.

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43

The route to a top law school is a high LSAT score and high college GPA. High college GPA means higher than what your high school GPA currently is, which is often difficult because it is harder for most students to earn an A in college than an A in high school.

You can see what kind of LSAT and college GPA goes to various law schools at https://schools.lawschoolnumbers.com/ .

You can check employment outcome stats of law schools at Discover law schools | Law School Transparency . This is what actually matters. It is true that law school prestige is related to employment outcomes, but employment outcomes are more obviously reported.

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What kind of account your college money is in is important. If it’s a 529 account in your grandfather’s name, the savings won’t affect you until it’s used to pay for your tuition - meaning that it won’t affect financial aid in your freshman year. That said, it’s possible that a school that used the CSS Profile might ask about it and count it. In the 2024-25 award year, students no longer have to report gifts like a grandparent 529 payment for tuition on FAFSA, so OP won’t need to report any 529 payments due to timing of the new rules. Again, though, a school that uses CSS Profile might ask about it for purposes of awarding institutional aid.

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Agreed with above posters that you’ve overestimated your chances. And I’m not sure that you’ll qualify for fin aid if the schools find out about the grandparent account for you.

If you want law school, especially a prestigious name, keep in mind that the most important and challenging thing for you is going to be your college GPA. With your SAT score, I suspect that you will be able to achieve a great LSAT score. But it’s going to be very, very hard for you to get a high GPA at a highly competitive college, even if you could get accepted there. So why not save your money from your grandparents for law school tuition, and apply to UMass Amherst as your reach, and to one of the other campuses (Boston, Lowell, Dartmouth) as your safety, or to any of the other public state colleges in MA? You’re more likely to be a superstar there with a 4.0 GPA - that combined with a very high LSAT score will really help you to get into some highly ranked law schools.

If you’re absolutely sure that you will qualify for fin aid based upon your parents’ finances, then you need to take a look at schools that accept B students and offer them generous fin aid. There are several threads on here that suggest great schools for B students. Absolutely, if you can pull straight A’s this semester and first semester of senior year, that will improve your chances, because it will have shown a strong upward trend, but you’ll have to get those A’s before you can calculate those chances. So my advice to you is to stop worrying about chances, and focus on schoolwork instead.

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When I talk about learning more about schools that are extremely likely to accept you, here are a couple of examples of what I mean:

Seton Hall offers a B.S. in Diplomacy and International Relations where you will have at least one professional internship before you graduate. Its close proximity to New York City means that there are opportunities for internships at the U.N. and other international organizations as well as frequent speakers at the school. It has one of the top collegiate Model U.N. programs and you can also study for a semester in D.C. or at numerous locations abroad. Additionally, it has a 3+3 BS/JD program where you can shave a year off of your higher ed costs (and apparently Seton Hall’s law school is ranked #17 in the country). Using the sorry Net Price Calculator (i.e. has an income category of $99k+) and inputting your academic stats, it looks likely that you might get $16,500 in institutional money from them, making the price about $45k/year.

Or perhaps you’re interested in Goucher and its 4+1 program where Goucher grads can get a BA and then move on to Johns Hopkins’ Carey Business School for a Master’s in finance, marketing, information systems, health care management, or business analytics and risk management, should you decide that law school’s not the path you want to take. Maybe you like the fact that it’s expected that international relations majors will study abroad and/or have an international internship. Using its Net Price Calculator, it appears that you would likely get a $35,000/year Presidential Scholarship, making the cost of attendance about $33k/year.

Or maybe you like the variety of international-related degrees at George Mason with Government and International Politics, International Security and Law, Global Affairs, or perhaps Public Administration if you don’t want such an international focus on your studies. Its location mere miles away from the Capitol provides a plethora of internship opportunities to boot.

And this is only the tip of the iceberg at these schools, and others (perhaps @tsbna44 will share about College of Charleston). There are lots of opportunities beyond the Top X schools, and this is just starting with those that are extremely likely to accept you and be within your grandparents’ generous budget.

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47

You have many college options, and it’s great that you are thinking about them as a junior and that you have your grandparents’ support!

If you were my student, I would have you create a college application list within a pre-identified budget and consider realistic admission chances based on admitted student statistics. I suggest that you build your list thinking of “access:” Access to the 3 academic majors you have identified and the ability to change majors, access to internships, access to study abroad in a country of interest (especially since you’re interested in international relations), access to any supports you might need related to ADHD, and access to a sport or specific extracurricular activities that you wish to pursue. Also consider the “fit” and learning environment: Preferred campus size and student body size, locations or metro areas, campus vibe, other aspects that you find important. … If you’re serious about law school, consider others’ advice to research lesser-ranked colleges that meet your needs and where you may be able to shine and earn a high GPA with the bigger goal of law school admission. This approach may also benefit you when competing for internships or other undergraduate opportunities.

Your list should reflect you, your individual interests, your budget and your personal needs. You only need one college, and it doesn’t need to be the highest ranked college that you can get into. I think you can be admitted to several colleges that you have already identified and that others have suggested, but I don’t know which ones will be a financial fit or meet your personal needs.

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As a small fyi, Georgetown doesn’t have ED- they have a restrictive EA (you can’t apply anyplace else ED). Moreover, they are explicit that there is no admission benefit to applying EA, and that they only admit students EA who they are 100% sure they would admit based on their profile from grades 9/10/11.

One more small point: you can get internships anywhere but except for a very small number of schools (ie, those that are located so close to internship opps that you can get there & back around class times and have class schedules that work with an internship schedule), most really meaningful internships are in January terms and (especially) over the summers- and these and are not tied to the location of your college. You start applying for them as early as December.

You have gotten some great advice on these threads, and some superb suggestions (@AustenNut is particularly good at finding good programs). I think you are beginning to see how much you didn’t know that you didn’t know about college and law school admissions. Be aware that you also don’t know how much you don’t know about how your experience of college courses and internships may re-shape your goals. IR & Law are not necessarily inextricably mixed- you may find that your path is more one way than the other - or a different way altogether.

That’s why the core advice: to find a school / program that fits you- where you will shine - is the best advice. Prestige is so, so tempting! But it doesn’t matter how expensive or good looking or impressive the shoe is: if it doesn’t fit you it’s not a good one. And just because you haven’t heard of the brand, or it isn’t expensive, doesn’t mean it can’t look and feel great on you!

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If you’re fairly certain that law school is in your future, then you should follow everyone’s advice here, and play the long game, both for your financial and educational benefit. Consider two potential outcomes:

  1. You get into say, a Tulane or a University of Richmond and attend one of them. You don’t get any merit aid (because schools of that caliber are giving merit aid to the students with 4.0s) and you don’t get need-based aid due to your grandparent’s account, so you take out $85k in loans. You maintain a B average while you’re there. You take the LSAT and do really well (say a 170), but your undergrad GPA is a 3.35. With those stats you are able to go to Loyola University Law School in Chicago, and you’re full pay there, so at the end of law school you’re $300k in debt and you get a job with a mid-size law firm where you earn $90k/year as your starting salary.

  2. Second scenario, you go to UMass for $30k/year. You have all of college funded and when you graduate your grandparent’s account (which has still been accumulating interest while you’re in school) has $120k in it. You earn a 3.8 GPA and a 170 LSAT at UMass and get into Northwestern Law. You graduate Northwestern Law with $100K in debt and you have a job with a large law firm lined up which pays a starting salary of $200k per year.

I know it’s hard to forgo the short-term reward of taking a spot at the absolute best undergraduate college you can get into, but Option 2 is soooo much better for your long term success - both professional and financial!

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I’m going to mention a couple more schools for you to explore.

U. Mass-Boston: This is the Massachusetts public with the most international relations majors and it would give you access to a big urban area that you’re saying you want. Although it is classified as a commuter campus, several people in the class of '23 thread mentioned how the campus feel is changing. About $33k for tuition, room & board.

Framingham State: The only other Massachusetts public with an international relations/studies program, here called Global Studies. It’s a much smaller school, with 3200 undergrads, but not tiny. 56.9% of classes have fewer than 20 students, and none have more than 50, so you will not be sitting in lecture halls with hundreds of fellow classmates. It’s about a 30-minute drive into Boston (or 50m on the train), and that distance also saves you lots of money: it’s a $5k/year difference in room & board between U. Mass-Boston and Framingham ($13k vs. $18k). And this is a residential campus, so probably more the picture of college life that you’ve been envisioning. About $25k for tuition, room & board.

Then there’s U. Mass - Amherst. There’s no international relations/studies major, per se, but this past fall it started a major in Public Policy. Other options include Resource Economics, Social Thought and Political Economy, or developing your own Individual Concentration, with international finance and trade as a past example. About $30k for tuition, room & board.

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Thank you so much you have been a really big help. I have looked into Umass Amherst and I think the campus is really pretty and I assume an ED there would be a likely admission. What is your suggestion on ED options because I hear some people say that ED is a scam, but is that true. Also when I do ED should I use it on a reach or a match. My plan is to now do ED1 at Villanova and hope legacy and my high sat carry supplement my low gpa. If I don’t get in what would you suggest as an ED2.

I saw that Tulane takes in a bunch of low gpa students. For example, my school uses Naviance and I say kids with 3.2-3.6 weighted gpa’s having an acceptance. What that be a good ed2 option?

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Can you afford to apply ED? One of mine got into Villanova honors EA, she didn’t realize how little $ they give (she got nothing).

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As a general comment based on your academic interests, you may want to look into colleges that offer a public policy major. This interdisciplinary concentration relies on the fields of political science, economics and philosophy for its foundation and emphasizes practical approaches to seemingly complex societal issues.

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You are getting ahead of yourself. Focus on the athletic recruiting. If you get an offer at one of your top choice schools, that’s where you’ll ED.

Otherwise, you would ED at a school that is your clear favorite and that you can afford.

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You need to slow down. Why are you trying to decide your ED school in January? Work on your grades, figure out if you have options for being a student athlete, figure out your actual college budget with your parents/grandparents.

And when the time comes to decide on the possibility of applying ED, only do that if it is your clear cut #1 choice and you can afford it.

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Also, did the OP share a dollar amount that the grandparents have set aside? If not, @Ben111 , please make sure that your grandparents know how much college costs these days , including room and board and incidentals, so that when they say they can cover 3 years, you know they are working with accurate information.

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They don’t have ED at UMass Amherst – just EA. The good news is that you can still apply to UMass (and any other public college) EA even when you are applying ED to Villanova (or any other ED school).

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well said

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I agree with the others that you’re getting ahead of yourself in thinking about ED. First, you need to research schools and have your family run the Net Price Calculators (and perhaps reach out to the financial aid office for a pre-read if there are factors that you think may sway your aid and the NPC is too general). Then, double-check with your family (anybody who’s going to financially contribute) that the school in question is affordable for four years, without anyone taking out extra loans. Then, make sure you visit the school, preferably while the school is in session. If it remains your first choice above all other schools, then you can start thinking about EDing.

That being said, however, I would strongly urge you to have some frank discussions with your family and some other trusted adults about what might be the most sound path for your future. Lots of people on this thread have been giving you advice to go to a less expensive college and save a lot of your grandparents’ money for law school. You’re obviously not keen on that advice and you are under no obligation to take it.

But I think if you do any kind of internet searches about the cost of law school, the amount of time it takes to pay off the loans, etc, you might start to realize what LARGE sums of money are being talked about here (and how many people regret taking out the big loans). And when you’re paying back those loans (and interest rates are going up), that means that there’s other things you can’t spend your income on. Saving for a down payment on a house, or qualifying for the size loan you need for the type of house you want, or having a more expensive car, paying for childcare, going on a vacation, etc, besides the need to save for retirement. All those things may get delayed or might not happen because you’ll be paying off far more in law school loans. Think about the number of years you would have been able to retire earlier, if you didn’t have those loans.

Deciding on where you apply and where you attend college will obviously be up to you and your family. But please don’t forget that you can go to U. Mass or a number of other schools and get an excellent education for less money and then save more of your grandparent’s incredibly generous gift for law school.

Additionally, perhaps in May after you’ve been on medication for most of the semester, you may want to speak with your teachers and health care professionals about any special considerations they think you should include in your college search. There may either be issues about particular supports needed, or class size, or other factors that may influence your college list as well. For instance, generally a lot of students with ADHD do better with smaller class sizes. If that’s the case for you, then you may do better at a school like Framingham where there aren’t any classes with more than 50 students as compared to U. Mass - Amherst where 18.3% of classes have more than 50 students. U. Mass’s honors college is reportedly very challenging to gain acceptance to, so in all likelihood you would be dealing with the large classes at U. Mass. So that’s something to think about and discuss with your support team.

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That’s a really reach-y list of schools under that public policy major link!

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