Do i stand for a chance?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Smith College
1

<p>Heyy, </p>

<p>I'm currently a graduating student from a junior college in Singapore (equivalent to high school grade 12 in the US) and i'm considering applying to Smith, probably through ED, for class 2011. </p>

<p>here are my stats,</p>

<p>SAT I: i took tiwce.
1st time 2170 (maths 800, critical reading 650, writing 720)
2nd time 2210 (maths 800, critical reading 740, writing 670)
SAT II: Math II 800
Phy 800
I took Cambridge O-Level in my 10th grade, distinctions in English, Chinese, Math, Advanced Math, Phy, Bio, Chem, Chinese Literuture and a merit for Social studies
Going to take Cambridge A-Level this year for Maths, Further Maths, Phy, and Econs, pridicted 3As-and-1B or 4As</p>

<p>E/C:
Vice President of Students' Council in Grade 9
member of the current school's Students' Council (with about 150 community service hours)
School Interact Club (with about 50 community service hours)
School Chinese Culture Society
School Choir for 2-years</p>

<p>Background:
I came to study in Singapore in 9th grade from China, so i'm still holding onto a Chinese Mainland passport (which may either hurt or strengthen my chance of getting into an american college).
Since both of my parents are still residing and working in China, Mainland, their annual income converted to US dollars only amounts to apporx $13,000. So i'd definitely need to apply for financial aid, which may be another disadvantage.</p>

<p>So do i have a chance for Smith? esp if i apply for ED?</p>

<p>Thank you guys! =)</p>

<p>ps, i heard rumours saying you can send the highest marks scored for each section of SAT I. is that true?</p>

2

<p>Oh sorry, i forgot to mention about recs. </p>

<p>In addition to the standard recs that come from my current school councellors and subject teachers (which would be fairly good but may not be too bombastic), i should be able to get a fab rec from the principal of my secondary school in China, where i held alot of EC poses and did many projects for the students' council. I am also getting an rec from the Head of Department in my secondary school in Singapore, which i hope could add a more credits. yup yup.</p>

3

<p>Well, your SAT scores are very good, and you seem to have taken a good prep course, so academically, I'd say you have a solid chance. Besides that, your status as an international student makes you very interesting to colleges. Something to know, however is that students accepted under early decision do not get as good financial aid packages as students accepted under regular decision. This is because ED students are legally required to go to that college, and so teh school doesn't have to try and lure them with sweet financial aid. Smith and other schools save the best packages for regular decision students who are deciding between many schools, and that puts students at the advantage. Students who, for example, get into Smith and Williams, and want to go to Smith, can use their Williams financial aid package as leverage, because they can then say "Oh well, I want to go to Smith, but Williams gave me this amount of money, and you only gave me this amount", and in that way you can negotiate for even better aid if you need it. ED candidates don't have that kind of position. Just somehting to think about.</p>

4

<p>Your SAT scores and A-level predictions are so good!! And your background must be attracting to the college. I can't think a reason of rejecting such applicant like you:-) </p>

<p>btw will you take TOEFL or IELTS? how long have you been in singapore , 3 or 4 years?</p>

<p>good luck! ppl say that A-level exams are getting harder this year (coz ppl got too many As in past few years). but i'm sure you will handle well!:-)</p>

5

<p>thx so much, guys :)</p>

<p>To SmithieandProud:
so you would think that i can actually apply thru RD? my concern was that the admission staff may consider me more sincere and more "desperate" to get into the college, if i apply ED, so that my chance of getting in is higher. anyway thx for your advice. i can see you're really proud of being a Smithie :)</p>

<p>to pumpkin:
by right i will need to take TOEFL; but since i'm also taking A-level General Paper (an English writing and reading comprehension paper), i may just ask the colleges to waive TOEFL. it is quite common for international students. and yup, i've been in Spore for 4 years; time for a change of place, i think :)</p>

6

<p>You should not apply ED unless you can afford to attend Smith no matter how reasonable or unreasonable the Financial Aid you receive is. Thus, apply RD. In fact, the less "desperate" you appear, the better your FinAid may be. I say this because I don't know of Smith awards any of its merit scholarships, such as the STRIDE, to international students (anyone know for sure?), but if they did, you might have a shot. S&P is exactly correct about sometimes being able to use competing financial aid offers to your advantage; it doesn't always work but it sometimes does and it's certainly worth it to you if you can save some money.</p>

<p>As the preceding implies, I think you have an excellent chance for admission.</p>

<p>One piece of un-asked for advice: on CC and in any communication with the schools, I would stick with formal English, not using IM-text like "thx" or abbreviations like "Spore," using proper capitalization for "I'm" and "American," not use spellings like "thru," etc. Your English is very good, mind you, but there are a couple of word choices and spellings that caught my eye and the fewer bumps in the road you present a reader, the better your opportunities may be. (I think that communications from international students are either consciously or subconsciously read with more closely than the same communication from an American student would be. Cynical of me, I know. And if not, the practice does you no harm.)</p>

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<p>Smith makes financial decisions based on documented need, period. The college will not get into a bidding war with other colleges. The amount of aid awarded is the same whether applying RD or ED. The only instance when an amount is changed is if a review is asked for b/c another college offered a different aid package and a mistake might have been made--as hard as it is to believe, Smith can make mistakes-- or financial conditions change between when you were accepted ED and the start of the yr. </p>

<p>Hz_ paula, applying ED doesn’t make you look desperate. In fact, it demonstrates to admissions you have a sincere desire to attend Smith. </p>

<p>BJM8’s daughter was accepted ED and additionally awarded a STRIDE. To Smith’s credit, applying ED doesn’t negate the possibility of receiving a merit award.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, internationals are not eligible for the STRIDE</p>

<p>There is one downside to applying ED. The <em>amount</em> of aid won’t vary between ED and RD, but you won’t know if another college, even though the aid was equal to Smith’s, would allocate the aid funds the same. By that I mean grants vs. loans.</p>

<p>Hz_ paula, I sincerely believe you would make an incredible contribution to the Smith community, love the college and the town of Northampton. I hope the college becomes your 1st choice.</p>

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<p>I understand that the official doctrine is "no bidding wars." However, when confronted with better offers from other colleges for my D, they reviewed the file and decided to interpret certain elements differently, resulting in an award that topped the previous best offer.</p>

<p>Did Smith participate in a bidding war? Certainly not, they never used the term and I never quite put them in that explicit position. Did they come up with a better offer after being aware of what other colleges had done? Most certainly. Cf., what it's called vs. what its name is vs. what it is.</p>

9

<p>they reviewed the file and decided to interpret certain elements differently, resulting in an award that topped the previous best offer.}}</p>

<p>I completely agree in your case it did make a difference. In Smith’s view they might have made an error in calculations. You’re a special case, however, b/c you’re self-employed and business deductions, car, home office, baot (yes, you can deduct a boat :) meal expenses, travel, etc. are up for myriad interpretations. If you had asked for an aid review if your daughter had applied ED, Smith still may have made adjustments. We’ll never know. This is one of those black holes. I should have issued a disclaimer for those who have parents that are self-employed. My mistake. Thanks for pointing that out.</p>

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<p>I also have the feeling if they didn't really want my D they would have said "Have a good time at Wellesley." Or perhaps the fact that Wellesley and Barnard were their competitors got their motivation up. No way to know, absent an NSA tap.</p>

<p>But I have a strong hunch that an "error in caculations" wouldn't have been found if there weren't competing offers. Because what they said to me during frank and comradely discussions was that X, Y, and Z were interepreted this way and I pointed out that X, Y, and Z should be looked at <em>that</em> way instead.</p>

<p>I may join D at Law School.
+</p>

11

<p>I don't think some of these comments were in the best interest of hz__paula, who asked for some advice. Anecdotal comments about how a faher fenagled more money is not the question. My advice -if you think Smith is your first choice (or would make a good choice for your college) by all means apply ED! From your information you are well qualified..and I think Smith would be a great school for you. Smith guarantees they will meet your financial aid if accepted so let that be your guide. Apply ED!</p>

<p>As for this forum - I think DADs (and Moms) should join a parents forum. Their comments are porly directed and I wonder what their kids think to let their parents get so involved in their college experience. Let the Smith students and alums answer the questions - and that way the parents get meet online to discuss issues in a way (and with the verbage)only parents can!</p>

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<p>Patience, I agree it may seem that <strong>sometimes</strong> a few parents are a little overly enmeshed in their child's college experience, but there are really not many students and alums around the forum to answer questions. This is not a student only forum -- a lot of the people asking questions in this forum are parents too. I would try LiveJournal if you're looking for a student forum. There are lots of students there to answer questions. The parents here are just answering the questions out of a desire to be helpful to prospective students and they put a lot of time and work into it -- so they should be thanked for that.</p>

<p>But.... while we're on the subject, for one of the same reasons that I chose to attend an all women's college, I really wish there were a critical mass of Mom-type parents on the Smith forum instead of Dads. IMO, some of the dads (!!NO ONE IN PARTICULAR!!) do have a tendency to "compete" and argue with their answers in a way that really strays off-topic to the point of not being helpful.</p>

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<p>I want to comment on applying ED/RD. Unless you know this is the college you really want to go to and you can afford it without looking at other financial aid offers, ED is a bad idea. hz_paula, you have a good chance of getting in ED or RD, but unless you are REALLY sure Smith is where you want to go to college, I would not recommend ED. My D loves Smith, it is a great school and has been a wonderful choice for her, but she did not know that until she visited. Also schools that sounded very good to her on paper dropped much lower on her list after visiting. Good luck.
Ellen (the Mom parent in the mini house)</p>

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<p>Patience, your advice to HZ is so poor that it exactly the reason that it's useful to have parents with experience as a reality check. "Meeting financial aid" can mean lots of things; if one college is giving you eighty percent loans, another 80 percent grants, it can mean a big difference to the financial burden a student will carry after graduation...but the college giving 80 percent loans has still "met 100 percent of financial need." </p>

<p>It's easy to be cavalier about other people's money, perhaps. In that vein, perhaps you might find it irrelevant to consider the nuts and bolts of how financial aid may and may not work but I guarantee you that many readers who are footing the bill will find it of interest...and remember, these threads are archived and are not only read by whomever is posting in the thread at a given time.</p>

<p>As for what my D thinks, she has enough on-line obligations of her own but is happy to pass on information if I run a thread by her.</p>

15

<p>[[Because what they said to me during frank and comradely discussions was that X, Y, and Z were interpreted this way and I pointed out that X, Y, and Z should be looked at <em>that</em> way instead.]]</p>

<p>We aren’t in a disagreement TD. I’m saying you’re an unusual case b/c of your self-employed status. Although I don’t know the exact figures of how many Smithie parents are self-employed, I would hazard a guess a very small percentage. Most parents fall into the W-2 category and Smith can very easily, via a fairly standard formula, arrive at the appropriate aid figure.</p>

<p>You aptly pointed out there are different interpretations of complicated self-employed tax returns. I’ve had three CPAs arrive at three different tax returns for one of the business I owned. It’s no surprise a college might interpret x. y and z one way but reconsider their hypothesis when presented with intelligent reasons ( which I have no doubt you did ;) and arrive at a satisfactory outcome for both parties. </p>

<p>As you said, there is no way to ever know if other colleges played a role in the financial aid office reconsidering their assumptions of the validly of certain business deduction allowances. </p>

<p>Another consideration is, I imagine, we’re usually talking about a few thousand dollars per yr. savings, if any. If one was to amortize the small saving over a lifetime, each individual parent and student has to ask themselves if it is worth the saving and risk of loosing both future alumnae connections and income by applying RD if ED1 or ED11 will substantially increase the chances of acceptance.</p>

<p>Personally, I’d much rather pay a few more dollars per yr. to assure I was able to attend my 1st choice college even assuming, and it’s a big assumption, I had to pay a small additional personal contribution over another college I might very well not be as suited for. But I’m the same fool who will blow $100.00 on gas taking the kids waterskiing and wakeboarding. Everything is relevant</p>

<p>I agree with Ms. Mimi also. ED is not for a student who isn’t completely sure Smith is the college they wish to spend four yrs. However, a vast majority of internationals apply to colleges without ever visiting. I haven’t an answer to that dilemma. And for the life of me, I’ll never understand US women who accept Smiths offer of admission without having visited the college. I actually know of some.</p>

<p>I will reiterate, and TDs correct, when applying ED, you have no way to compare how the aid dollars will be allocated-- i.e. grants vs. loans. </p>

<p>My comments regarding a student receiving the exact same aid package whether applying ED vs. RD was very emphatically expressed to me by the financial aid office some time ago. If a student has any further questions, I suggest they call financial aid directly.</p>

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<p>I don't know how admissions workd at Smith, but it seems as though you have a good shot at getting in. But Ed is risky. Firstly because you wnd up putting all your hopes and dreams into one school, and secondly because it limits your options. Its nice to have all you acceptance letters and aid packages laid out and be able to pick and choose between all the schools. That extra time gives yout an oppurtunity to inact with each school more, and a chance to visit etc. My advice would simply be to keep our options open, look around see whats out there, and that's really easy to do with the common app. I can say from personal expirence that I would not be going to the school im going to now without the commonapp and the above mentallity. good luck</p>

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<p>Patience, I agree it may seem that <strong>sometimes</strong> a few parents are a little overly enmeshed in their child's college experience, but there are really not many students and alums around the forum to answer questions.]]</p>

<p>Laurel, thanks for the comment.</p>

<p>Patience, with all due respect, indirectly there are students and alumnae helping with the posts. TD knows many alumnae and has his daughter to check answers. Mini has done some work for Smith, and also has his daughter to consult with. Not to mention he’s a walking encyclopedias of information. BJM8 is a research genius when it comes to women’s education studies. I have a Smithie daughter, an alumna wife and many alumnae friends—some on the board- as well as had numerous conversations with different administrators on various subjects. </p>

<p>Love,
!! NO ONE IN PARTICULAR!!</p>

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<p>To SmithieandProud:
so you would think that i can actually apply thru RD? my concern was that the admission staff may consider me more sincere and more "desperate" to get into the college, if i apply ED, so that my chance of getting in is higher. anyway thx for your advice. i can see you're really proud of being a Smithie ]] </p>

<p>Why yes, I am an awful proud one, what can I say. I think you stand an excellent chance of being admitted RD. And then, you'll have the added bonus of being able to consider other colleges in terms of aid and other things too. I'm not saying you should do one or the other, and there's obviously much debate on this board and elsewhere about which one is "Better". You just have to think about what is most important to you. Applying ED makes you appear very committed and if you are sure that Smith is the one and only place for you then it saves you a lot of time and anxiety. However, it also locks you into one school, with one financial aid offering to consider and not a lot of space to negotiate if you feel that your aid was not calculated correctly. Applying RD means you can consider many offers from many schools, as well as gives you more time to prepare your application. And if you have second thoughts about Smith, you have a backup plan. However, you'll also be thrown into a bigger pool of applicants and you have to wait longer to hear your results. It's up to you to decide which is the best thing for you to do. the best I can wish you is good luck :-)</p>

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<p>thanks loads, all the experts! :) wow I am now a little bit overloaded by all the information provided :-) </p>

<p>I guess I need some time to think about whether Smith is really the school of my choice. Actually, I was first considering Dartmouth for ED; but it ended up that my SAT I score did not improve significantly (only by 40 marks) to well qualify me for an Ivy League college. then I turned to Smith. I read quite some stuff on the college (including all the commencements found on the website :)). I realised it is really a great place for me to spend four years, if I can ever get in. Therefore it made me consider Smith as my first choice.</p>

<p>However, after reading all the replies you guys posted, I became a little concerned with regards to financial aid. My parents are willing to pay for my education; however, we're not rich and I am already 19 years old. It occurs to me that I should be as financially independent as possible. So, may I ask one more question, that, is it a common case for most colleges and universities that ED candidates would not get as satisfactory an offer as the RD candidates do, if admitted?</p>

<p>Thank you very much! :-)</p>

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<p>hz_paula, I am going to answer in the same manner as others have, but from a slightly different angle. My daughter was a late applicant transfer. Every thing was completed on the final date (5/15). Prior to sending in the application I called the financial office at Smith and asked about the availability of financial aid at this late time in the admission year and was told that financial was based on the formula and not the time of application. BTW, she is 19 and not financially independent enough to afford to pay the thousands not covered by the Smith financial grant. Few 19 year olds are that independent.</p>