Who really gets into Ivy Leagues?

Parents Forum
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<p>So I spent a little time looking at the stats of some athletes at Princeton (baseball, basketball and football) and it was eye opening. For the most part, even the athletes appear to be from upper class, connected backgrounds. I saw sons of famous athletes, many parents who were doctors, lawyers, and other professional people. What was interesting is when there was no career listed for a very few athletes; I am guessing these are the true URM-kids that come from unconnected, unimpressive backgrounds. Even many/most of the URM were connected to academia in some way (sister, brother, parents at Ivy League or other highly selective school such as Stanford).</p>

<p>Honestly then, how many "normal" kids do Ivies really admit? I consider my son in that category. I am a stay at home mom and my dh is a blue collar worker (driver) and we are middle class (between 70-80K). We homeschool and have no connections besides a cousin on the opposite coast that graduated from Penn many years ago. Yes, my son has strong stats and is 1/2 Puerto Rican but I think we need to be realistic and realize that kids like my son rarely if ever get admitted to Ivy Leagues.</p>

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<p>With acceptance rates in the single or low double digits, it IS very hard to be admitted to a highly-selective school (Ivy or otherwise). However, there are many students like your son that do get admitted. It takes high scores, great grades, something that makes the applicant stand out (and it need not be a “connection” or wealth) and some luck! There are many fine colleges outside the Ivy League that you should consider for your son.</p>

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<p>Realistically, most people do not get admitted to Ivy Leagues. That doesn’t mean your S should not try if he is interested in going to Princeton, etc. What it means is that he needs to have some matches, where he is pretty likely to be admitted, and some safeties, where he most certainly will be. No one should set their heart on a school with an admission rate of 8% (except maybe Bill Gates kids :)). But there is nothing lost by trying if he has the stats!</p>

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<p>^agree with Mom. It’s a combination of hard work in challenging classes, good achievement at school, good ECs, LoRs and essays, and something that makes him stand out. He should be able to expain his major interests intelligently. He should be able to connect his interests to his relevant grades and experiences- eg, if he wants to be an engineer, he should have the right math and physics classes and do well and have some ECs or outside experience that shows he’s serious. One problem is if a lot of kids in your area apply to the same Ivy; then he’s compared against them, to some extent. Just think with an open mind about what he has done and what he has been involved in and show his strengths. Being 1/2 PR wil be noticed, but they like it when you show some connection- that can even be any small reference. All colleges want a balance- not everyone can be tippy top legacy athlete. Think how boring that campus would be.</p>

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<p>The chances of getting into any Ivy League college are low, but you can’t get in if you don’t apply. I can assure you that from our large public high school kids get to these schools every year, and they are not all athletes, URMs and superstars. They are all in the top 5% or so of the class. There’s usually a mixed of the all round accomplished types (class leaders, maybe some medals in county or statewide events - academic or sporting, music), others maybe very good at one thing - Intel winners or kids with beyond average accomplishments (computer programming for example). I think that having a blue collar parents is a bit of a plus if everything else is there.</p>

<p>If an Ivy doesn’t work out, or turns out not to appeal, there are plenty of other great schools out there.</p>

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<p>Getting into is one thing, but whether you can afford them if you are from the middle class is another.
In 2009, my older son got accepted into most of the lvy Leagues, even some 5 years Master programs, but none gave merit scholarships. (They made that very clearly that NO merit scholarship other than need-based aid)
Even though all the schools claim they meet full need. We don’t qualify for any aid since we don’t have “demonstrated need” so the price tag was 250K-300K for 5 years. So it is either forgoing most of my retirement money or finding a similar school else where. The choice was obvious then. He managed to find a mid-west school initially offered some merit money in freshman, which later offered him full ride for the rest the 4 years.</p>

<p>The best and brightest from his school last few years, although most got accepted to Ivies, did end up in Vanderbilt, USC, CaseWestern, U-of-Oklahoma, and UC and state colleges. This either due to the generous merit from those schools or the low tuition. The exceptions are those from poor families or students from underrepresented group.</p>

<p>This year, my young son did not even waste time on any Ivy league.</p>

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<p>The OP considers her/his family middle class, but with an income of $70-$80K, the family would be in very good shape to receive great aid from several of the Ivies. Some give aid to families making upwards of $180K, so money should not deter the OP from encouraging her son to apply. The Ivies are reaches for everyone, but they do admit people every year.</p>

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<p>In the context of home-schooling, is your son able to find any leadership opportunities? I would say that this is the one characteristic that ties together all of the Ivy admissions from our high school - which come from many different backgrounds.</p>

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<p>While I think leadership is important, what I see as the common thread in top Ivy admissions (aside from grades and scores) is significant individual achievement, preferably outside the high school setting. This could be musical, scientific (i.e., research), writing (winning contests, publications), charitable, etc.</p>

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<p>There used to be a lot written on this site about how to package your child’s application. I would think this is especially important for a homeschooler. It needs to have a theme and grab the reader’s attention. imo :)</p>

<p>I know a lot of people who are surprised when their child, who is the most accomplished individual ever at their high school, doesn’t get into the ivies. For example: if someone is applying to do math/science at these schools they are competing for the math/science student openings with the very top math/science students not only nationally but, to some extent, internationally. This is pretty intense competition imho. The application needs to show why the school should pick one student over another.</p>

<p>Sometimes unconnected, academically focused kids are admitted because their applications demonstrate not only why the school would be a good fit for them, but also what they would bring to the school. Sometimes there are particular programs in which these students are interested and professors with whom they want to study; the school anticipates these students winning various national awards.</p>

<p>At least this is how it seems to me. ymmv</p>

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<p>That you have to pay the full price tag suggests that you’re either not middle class or have a high amount of assets, or you’re unaware of the very recent changes that have very much improved financial aid at top private schools. Your older son being “accepted most Ivy Leagues” is a great example of how kids from “normal”, “blue collar” are indeed represented in selective colleges.</p>

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<p>I like what I have read in other threads about the Ivies and Acceptances". It’s like a lottery! Every application looks exactly the same - give or take a few extras. We hired a pr girl a few years back to do some freelance for us - she worked as a Harvard admissions screener after graduating from H. The first stop an application makes is to the essay reader. This girl we hired was an essay reader - if she liked an essay the application went on to the next desk for the next round of evaluations. She admits the process isn’t perfect but told us a lot of “normal” kids get in every year. I remember her also telling us noone actually pays the sticker price for a Harvard education.</p>

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<p>sbjdorlo:</p>

<p>As an Ivy League grad, I would recommend you strongly consider reading [Harvard</a> Schmarvard](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Harvard-Schmarvard-Getting-Beyond-College/dp/0761536957]Harvard”>http://www.amazon.com/Harvard-Schmarvard-Getting-Beyond-College/dp/0761536957)…written by an [Ivy</a> League grad](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Mathews]Ivy”>Jay Mathews - Wikipedia).</p>

<p>Many have noted here and on other forums that we’re very luck in the U.S. to have so many top notch schools along side the Ivies.</p>

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<p>Because it is priceless?</p>

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<p>kandjad, I think that girl from Harvard was pulling you leg a bit. I can’t believe that the first screen for applications is the essay, for one thing. And there are plenty of full pay students at the Ivies.</p>

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<p>Lookingforward,</p>

<p>When you speak of “kids in the same area”, are you talking about general region, city, or community? We live in a large city with plenty of rich families, private schools, high achievers, but we live in a neighborhood where the median income is 22K, the schools are underperforming, and a murder here or there isn’t unheard of. It’s a typical lower middle class neighborhood. So if they look at just the geographical region, my son will certainly be at a disadvantage. If they look closer, they might see an unusual student in a humdrum community.</p>

<p>My son will definitely apply to a variety of schools. He only has 2 Ivies on his list currently. He has a friend from math circle at Princeton (where we will be visiting along with Penn in a week) and our pastor and his wife actually graduated from there, though none of their kids got in.</p>

<p>“Home” school really doesn’t describe my son’s education. “Community resource” schooling might be a better name. I don’t teach him; I find resources for him. You can see some of his stats from my earliest posts on CC a month or so ago.</p>

<p>I think he is a pretty strong leader at church and with music (youth worship leader; Children’s worship leader, wedding music coordinator, volunteer violin teacher to disavantaged students, etc.), at work (has several jobs including private violin teacher and math tutor), he was MVP on his freshman baseball team, etc.</p>

<p>He has some good national honors such as physics olympiad semi-finalist 2 times, AIME 2 times, and is nationally ranked in chess for his age. He’ll be doing physics research at the local state university (just 2 trolley stops away from us, so it makes more sense than trying for an “in” at the higher ranked UC univ, which is 1/2 hour away) and maybe he can enter a big science competition.</p>

<p>He’s done community college and several university audits since he was 12. He’s got a 4.0 gpa in his college classes and his test scores are strong. (2320 SAT, 3 SAT II ranging from 730-800) I do think essays will be critical for him to nail. He enjoys writing but as a math/physics kid, he tends to leave his heart out of it. We will work on essays this summer.</p>

<p>I still have a very nagging feeling that most of the spots at highly selective schools go to people with money. And I am not begrudging the schools in any way. It’s a very smart way to run a business and I would probably do the same. It’s just that, while my son’s been told he’d be a good candidate for such schools, I think we need to be realistic and know that it’s a slim to none possibility and go forward with that mentality rather than one that thinks it’s really possible.</p>

<p>He’ll get a college education somewhere. :slight_smile: I’ve just found it very eye opening as I research Ivies a little more.</p>

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<p>(Sorry, previous comment was directed at Dadwith2Sons, not the OP)</p>

<p>sdjdorbo-</p>

<p>Your son has great stats and if he find himself liking some selective school, it’s definitely worth applying. Look up an organization called Questbridge: not that your son definitely should apply to the scholarship, but rather that he should pay attention to how the organization advises kids in his situation to not to be afraid to turn the adverse factors into an advantage. Some of the sample essays on there are also worth looking at—shows you how to highlight a different kind of uniqueness.</p>

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<p>There are only ever so many spots at the Ivies, but thankfully there’re plenty of other good colleges to choose from :)!</p>

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<p>More than half the students at Princeton are on financial aid. I don’t know what it says about them being “upper” class, but they did qualify for needing help on the college costs.</p>

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<p>sbjdorlo: I hope, just for a backup to Princeton, your son is also applying to Duke, Chicago, and Washington University in St. Louis, all schools that frequently offer merit awards to kids like yours. Caltech??</p>

<p>Yes, I am pretty sure he will get in somewhere!! :slight_smile: LOL</p>

<p>His interest in Princeton is because of the math dept? You have exactly the sort of kid I was describing in my post. Good luck!</p>

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<p>The same is true at Harvard. Also, 20% of the students at Harvard College qualify for the Harvard Financial Aid Initiative, where parents with total incomes less than $60,000 are expected to pay nothing.</p>