Do normal kids get into Ivy League or Top 20 Universities?

Parents Forum
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<p>Who cares? Its like these obsessed parents think they are failures or their kids are not genetically talented so to speak if they dont get into Harvard Princeton or Yale or any other Ivy or elite school.</p>

<p>I just love all this obsessing that goes on every year with the super elites. </p>

<p>Your kid should go to the best school for him/her and that is a fit factor, not necessarily a prestige factor.</p>

<p>If you get into an Ivy or super elite, then congratulations. But if you don't or don't apply to one, that is perfectly "normal" as far I am concerned.</p>

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<p>hey univmom.</p>

<p>i would like to consider myself to have been a pretty normal, well rounded high school kid with bright stats and a lot of potential. friends who share the same stats did not find much luck with top schools due to less-than-perfect GPAs (and by that, i mean that i "only" had 3.9 rather than a 4.3 that wasn't even possible at my school) or test scores (i "only" scored a 32 on the ACT rather than a perfect 36!). i was involved with a few clubs, played some recreational sports, and held a job for a few years. i volunteered every once in awhile. i had plenty of time to have what i would consider a normal life: much more normal than my friends who were obsessed with grades or building their resumes.</p>

<p>i got my chance to shine at an interview for UVa's Jefferson Scholarship. It's a pretty prestigious program and it pulls out all the stops to reward well-rounded bright kids. perhaps your kids would be interested in it--at least worth a shot! disclaimer: they must go to a school that is able to nominate someone. there's a list on their website at Jefferson</a> Scholars Foundation</p>

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<p>I like your sentiment catfishin. </p>

<p>BTW, I get confused often on CC. Is it the Mom/Dad who is the applicant or is it the Daughter/Son who is the applicant? It's like that famous scene in the movie "Chinatown" -- "My mother, my daughter, my daughter, my mother, etc." </p>

<p>And remember that overwrought drama on CC with Andismom. It's regularly evoked to this day. I read the entire string recently. Yikes. I don't ever recall seeing a post from Andi. Where was Andi in all this?</p>

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<p>Well, Balletgirl, there are a many kids who are on CC whose parents are not. There are parents on CC whose kids are not. To me it shows that the parents are NOT pushing the kids to read, post, be part of an interested college app community if they choose not to be so involved. For many parents, the college app process involves advice, decisions, and payments. In that case, it behooves us to know the situation. We get the standard lines from the counselors, schools, kids, friends. But these days, the online communities are useful in sharing a wide range of experience and opinions, that we may not get in our own small communities. COnsidering that college is considered the parents' responsibility in terms of financial investment, I would think it would be wise to learn what we can. Considering the investment runs upwards to $200k, it may be the largest single investment some of us make. Heck, our last house cost less than that. </p>

<p>Having said that , there are parents who are over involved and uninformed to boot. Better to see where these lines are for overinvolvement and to be informed. </p>

<p>Oh, and this is the PARENT'S forum here where you are posting, I believe. Not that students' sentiments are not welcome, as I assume parents' knowledge is not unwelcome in the student forums where I occaisionally post when I have information that may be useful.</p>

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<p>Captain -- You explain part of my confusion. This was a Parent's Forum thread that got elevated to the general population. There is, however, a level of emotional involvement on behalf of many parent posters that goes way beyond sorting out whether a school is a worthwhile investment or not for a child. </p>

<p>In many cases, the students described appear here come off as if they've been raised like hot house flowers and that can't be good for college admissions. </p>

<p>I am happy that my parents are relatively uninvolved, supportive though they may be, in the day-to-day of my college journey. Were they to be like many parents on CC, I would find it terribly meddlesome and creepy.</p>

<p>Do you think that Andi's mom shared her threads with Andi? I bet not. And if he saw them I bet he'd be royally put-out.</p>

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<p>Think about - why would any ivy want a 'normal' person when they have such a more interesting applicant pool to choose from? It sounds harsh, but its the truth. </p>

<p>The 'average' person has a 2.0 GPA and 1500 SATs and has no ECs, according to average being around 50th percentile on a normal curve. Why would an Ivy or any top school full of culture and intellectual and wordly wisdom want someone like that who is unmotivated and pretty much boring?</p>

<p>Of course, here I take normal at it's literal definition. If you mean normal as in excellent, such as ~2000 SATs, 3.0+ GPA and someone who does ECs, then they do have a chance. 15% or so of Princeton students had a x<3.75 GPA in HS, and the 25 % have below 660 on each SAT section. Normal people can get into the best schools, as long as you show you aren't 'normal', but mearly seem 'normal' when you are actually unique.</p>

<p>In short, normal people, make yourself seem non-normal. True normal people have a 0% chance at top institutions because there is no reason for a top school to want them.</p>

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<p>Balletgirl- If you truly read the whole "Andi" thread, you should have figured out that Andi is the parent and that she has a SON who was the applicant. His name is not Andi. The point of the thread was to point out what can happen if you don't have safety schools. Andi's son was a talented, highly qualified applicant who applied to a number of excellent schools and had every expectation of receiving acceptances from at least some of them. They were NOT all Ivys.<br>
It was very generous of Andi to share the story so that others could benefit. I'm not sure what your problem with the thread is. If YOU wound up with no college acceptances, let's see if YOU handle it with as much grace and maturity as Andi's son and his family did! By the way, he is now at MIT.</p>

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<p>I discovered this forum when my third child was coming of the age to look at colleges. I enjoyed the comments, insights, and people on the forum. Wish I had known about this earlier as it would have helped me tremendously and in turn helped my older kids. Made many mistakes that were discussed here. Am still learning but also sharing what I now know from experience as my oldest has been out of college for a few years now along with his friends and classmates, so I have seen a whole cycle of kids from search to choice through college years to afterwards. </p>

<p>My son is pretty straight forward about colleges. Doesn't think too much about the process. Does look at what I find and listen to what I have to say, but isn't at all concerned, much less obsessed about the process. He is not the slightest bit interested in the forum, and would think that anyone his age is a little strange to be spending time doing this. He's busy with his school work, sports, ecs and social life. But he is not applying to highly selective school either. All of the schools on his list are matches or safeties , stats wise since we are looking for merit money and he is not waaay up there in academic profile. Another reason why I like reading CC, because it has given me some great ideas on schools where there is a decent chance of merit money. Since I'm going to be paying for a good portion of this, I am quite motivated to look for the best deals out there right now. Do I wish my son were more involved in that part of the search? SUre I do. Do I push it? Nope. He's happy enough to go to a state school, and grateful to have options to check out, but he seems to feel he'll be happy where ever he goes. Much healthier attitude than some kids who are pinning their hopes to a highly selective school, trying to talk themselves into believing they have a great shot at it and at the same time trying to believe that it won't matter whether they get in or not. </p>

<p>And yes, there are kids who probably need a more nurturing environment than others--I happen to believe mine does for a number of reasons; he has a few issues that are bit different from most, including medical problems. At his age, he does feel they are that relevant. They may not be, but as a mom, I am concerned. I'd like to see him in an ideal environment whether or not he cares. </p>

<p>Sort of like when he was buying a jacket. He did not care about style, or anything. Just wanted to get the thing. I wanted value for the money, and had some ideas on what would be the best purchase. Since he did not care that much, and I did, why not give input? Especially since it is my money paying for the purchase. College is sort of the same thing except it can cost upwards to $200K a year. If I'm going to advise on a jacket that costs far less and is easier to replace if it doesn't fit, doesn't cut it, than a commitment to a college, I think I should be involved in the college search as well, don't you? I was not as involved with my older kids because they had pretty fixed ideas on what they wanted which automatically limited their choices. And I did not argue or debate their preferences. Probably should have been a bit more involved for the oldest though. It's great you are doing this all yourself; I think that is a big advantage when the student is interested and informed. But I think all kids your age would do well with an adult's take on your opinions and choices. I know I did my college process alone, and would have benefitted from parents who knew more. Involved, informed, and non pushy parents who help and advocate for their kids is quite a big help.</p>

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<p>

No, he's at MIT.</p>

<p>I met him last year and found him to be a great kid -- and he introduced himself to me as Andi's son. I don't think he thought it was a big deal.</p>

<p>I'm not sure exactly what your problem is with the whole affair, but he certainly didn't seem to have a problem with it.</p>

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<p>Nice note Captain, deeply felt and beautifully written.</p>

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<p>I read Andismom's posts even though all of it was before my time here. Actually an interesting situation. You wonder if a kid with high stats and good ECs can possibly NOT get into ANY of his schools. According to a number of threads going here, it is highly unlikely. I agree with the unlikely, but it CAN happen and as Andismom's experience tells us, it has happened. That's why someone who really wants to be in college next year should have a good safety school on his list. </p>

<p>What does someone in Andi's situation do? Pretty scary for a sharp kid like that. The advice given, I thought was very helpful to a Mom who is faced with this problem with her son. It also helped her come up with some options that he may not have come to on his own. And it shows how taking year off and trying again can pay off, especially with a good gap year. A good alternative to grabbing an open enrollment school just to get something. The second time around, he probably did a much better job with the apps as well. If you could not glean any information from her posts you either know it all , and don't need to be on this forum, or you have your nose up in the air too high to see. I , for one, learned alot from her posts, and from the advice and comments of all who helped her. Another phenomonal thread is by MomfromTexas (I think that was her name). A goldmine of info that is not easily found anywhere.</p>

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<p>MomofWildChild,</p>

<p>It's still melodrama. And you make my point beautifully about the emotional over-investment.</p>

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<p>Balletgirl, it's great that you are doing all of your own search, and wonderful that your parents are supportive without being intrusive. I have no doubt that there are parents who are too pushy and obsessed on CC and not on CC. There are too many uninformed parents that are pushy and obsessed, in my opinion. But it seems to me, that many of the parents here are those who are done with the admissions dance with their kids and are just still on the board because they like the people they "met" here. Some of the old timers here have no vested interest to be posting. Their kids are in college, many are done. The advice they can give is valuable, in my opinion. THeir opinions and comments are not what you can easily find face to face or in guide books. And they are very willing to help kids who do not have this info and want to get into a selective school, and to also give them a more realistic take on this process. Since I only have a very part time job, and spend much time on the computer, I can afford to look around for boards like this that give me a true person's perspective on an issue. So I do look around. I only belong to one other board which is medical, and again it's for info and because I am an oldtimer in terms of the issues ther, so I can give info to those who were once in my shoes. I'm here because it is interesting and I like it. Why are you here?</p>

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<p>UnivMom,</p>

<p>My daughter had similar stats: 34 ACT, valedictorian, AP scholar with distinction after junior year, hardest course load, great recommendations and ecs at public high school, contacted by harvard, penn, columbia. After visiting her schools of interest her number one choice was WashU over HYP and Brown. She was not interested in name recognition or prestige and fell in love with WashU. She is now a freshman there and is thrilled with the school. It is the perfect fit for her, which was what she was most interested in.</p>

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<p>Balletgirl, I found CC this summer out of boredom while my DD was at Governor's Honors School for six weeks. I am uneducated myself, and if not for finding this forum, my DD would probably be going to the state flagship school come September. Not everyone has access to a GC who actually has resources or time to actually talk to the students. It is left to parents or students to do the legwork for college admissions. Through CC and the parents that post here I found that she has many other options, and I'm extremely grateful for it, and my D as well. One day you will understand.</p>

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<p>I think im a pretty normal kid, especially by CC standards, and ive gotten into 3 top 20 schools (Notre Dame, JHU, UChicago)</p>

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<p>then you must not be normal</p>

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<p>"My 2300 son with some very nice things to recommend him went to Dartmouth.
My 2350 daughter who is a very, very talented dancer is attending Princeton."</p>

<p>I'm sorry, but what kind of parent would identify their children by their SAT scores?</p>

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<p>Agree. Since when are SAT scores = intelligence? = interest in the world around them? = empathy?</p>

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<p>One top Ivy admissions dean said that well over 1/3 of their admits were just well performing "normal" kids with great potential. By "normal" he meant not a recruited athlete or Uber-genius or violin prodigy.</p>

<p>The HYP college I attended had lots of "normals" -- me included. I had excellent academics (3.9GPA in the most rigorous programs), OK stats (1320SAT, 29 ACT(yeech)), OK extracurrics (work, band, JROTC), and good "story" (Asian kid, excelled in leadership in mostly black HS).</p>

<p>I was accepted at all schools applied. Again, looking at my friends, they were great but none of them were world class athletes or Westinghouse winners.</p>

<p>Really looking back at it and as I interview/recruit now, I'm fully convinced it's really an arcane art -- nothing scientific at all.</p>