DO NOT GO TO W&M - Advice from a Graduating Senior

Colleges and Universities A-Z College of William and Mary
21

<p>Thanks for a very informative post, Datkid. Your link to grade deflation info is truly helpful and eye-opening – I recommend that others click on it (here it is again: <a href=“http://www.gradeinflation.com/”>http://www.gradeinflation.com/&lt;/a&gt; ).</p>

<p>The last year of W&M info posted in the link is 2005 * – at which time UVA and Virginia Tech had lower average GPAs than W&M: 3.213 at UVA, 2.96 at Tech. Other selective public schools with lower GPAs than W&M that year include Alabama (2.89), UNC-CH (3.16), Miami-Ohio (3.05), and Penn State (3.07). At Michigan, the average GPA was almost the same as at W&M (3.24). It’s a fact that public schools tend to post lower average GPAs than private institutions.</p>

<ul>
<li>Unless things get really dull around here, I’m not going to try to find the 2013 GPA info for these other selective public schools. But W&M’s was 3.28 in 2013, an increase from 2005 of .05. </li>
</ul>

<p>I also appreciate the description of the library “trampling” incident. Looking at the clip again, no one seems grim or even especially stressed. My d, who was a student at the time, studied quite a bit at Swem on Sundays and some evenings, but not during exam period, when she found it too crowded with people who weren’t regulars. </p>

22

<p>My son transferred from UVa to W&M for reasons unrelated to academics or the social opportunities. He has now spent an equal amount of time both places. During his orientation, he repeatedly heard how difficult courses were at W&M. He has not found the classes any more challenging than those he was taking at UVA. There is a difference on the social front. At UVA there were many more social activities taking place on any given day. That makes sense given that UVA is a much bigger school. My son has also had the opportunity to live in dorms and off grounds (but close to the University) both places. He found his neighbors in Charlottesville much more tolerant of students than those in Williamsburg. Likewise, when my husband and I have visited, we find the restaurants that border the W&M campus seem a bit more uptight about the noise level of students than those on the Corner at UVA. That could be a factor of the nearness to Colonial Williamsburg and the tourists, I really can’t say.</p>

<p>As many people have pointed out, each school has its own “personality.” It is a good idea to visit, get a sense of the place, and then make a somewhat more informed decision for yourself. I think it is sad that the OP didn’t pursue a transfer. No one should feel as though they have to stay at a school for four years if it isn’t working out.</p>

23

<ol>
<li>Academics: W&M students are very smart and very motivated to do well. If you want an easier track, you can choose a different school. If you want to spend your time in the library, that is your choice. Personally, I spent almost zero time in the library. You might not realize this now, but your life is not defined by your GPA. Also, I don’t think that you should be surprised that some of the most desirable employers among certain sections of college grads have GPA cutoffs of 3.2 or 3.5… there are plenty of other places you can work that do not have GPA cutoffs.</li>
</ol>

<p>Your statement about the tour guides is factually false. Numerically, there is not severe grade deflation at W&M, but I do believe it is possible students at W&M work harder for the same grades than students at some other schools.</p>

<p>I think W&M grads success with grad schools and job placements show they are not at a disadvantage, and instead show that the W&M degree is valued and respected.</p>

<ol>
<li>Fun: W&M is not a school where the majority of campus gets drunk tuesday-saturday. This shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone. If you wanted a big frat party scene (or house party scene) thursday-saturday and you thought you would get it at W&M, then you didn’t do your research very well.</li>
</ol>

<p>Williamsburg’s geographic location should not be a surprise to anyone that has looked at a map.</p>

<p>If you want a city and a roaring club scene, there is no reason for you to be at W&M.</p>

<p>I don’t think it’s surprising that people would say “without something I put tons of my time into [in your case, greek life], I wouldn’t have nearly as much fun here”… I mean… duh?</p>

<ol>
<li>School Pride: Factually, VERY large percentages of the student body attend football games, and basketball games as well when the team is decent. I watched 2000+ students attend football games many times while I was at W&M, which is more than 1/3 of the undergraduate population (a few times we hit 3000!). I also think it is factually inaccurate that lots of students don’t feel connections to W&M. I think the senior class gifts are pretty successful, at least that is my impression. W&M just set a record for donations, so I think many alums feel proud of their W&M roots.</li>
</ol>

<hr>

<p>… overall, your post reads like an unhappy student, likely facing the realities of a difficult job market and the stress of senior year job search and lots of life changes… your first chance to be out on your own without guidance is coming in a few months, and there is no path set in stone. Further, you are calling your personal views the “majority view” of students at W&M… which is factually false.</p>

<p>As far as the 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 statement… I have never heard that. Also, I think the only 1/3 that you listed that is close to accurate is the 1/3 greek life (a greek life that is pretty tame compared to many schools).</p>

<p>No school is for everyone, including W&M.</p>

24

<p>soccerguy315-</p>

<p>You have 6,560 posts on College Confidential. You need to get a hobby. It does not surprise me at all that someone that spends that much time on this type of website AFTER they have gone through this process feels this way about William & Mary. </p>

<p>You are definitely a “TWAMP” For those of you that don’t know, TWAMP (Typical William & Mary Person) is a negative term that refers to the weird kids at William & Mary. TWAMPS propagate the negative William & Mary stereotypes.</p>

25

<p>Really? An ad hominem attack? Not your best moment, there.</p>

<p>Funny thing is, most W&M students wouldn’t really consider “TWAMP” to be nearly as negative as you think it is. It may come as a shock to you, but those “weird kids” - you know, the valedictorians, the Math Club presidents, the Science Fair winners, the Debate Team captains - those weird kids are precisely the ones who’ll be getting those jobs at the Big Four, who’ll get into those top-10 law, medical, and other graduate schools. </p>

<p>You have to understand, those things you want are highly competitive - most kids I know who went on to those kinds of careers worked <em>hard</em> to get there. It’s a competitive world - “average” students don’t get handed a 4.0 GPA just for showing up, nor a 40 on their MCAT, or a 180 on their LSAT. I’m not sure what Lake Woebegone school and result you might’ve been hoping for, but trust me, the world doesn’t work that way. </p>

<p>Sorry you spent your college years at a place you didn’t enjoy - but there’s really nothing to be done for that now, I’m sorry to say. At the risk of being pedantic, the only advice I can offer you now is, while it’s perfectly fine to vent about it here, or to your friends or family, when you do interview for those jobs, internships, or grad schools, don’t carry a whiff of your negative feelings with you. Wherever you go, those interviewers will have interviewed W&M grads who graduated summa cum laude, who had co-author credit on published research, are PBK inductees, who were successful in every way, and you coming in blaming the school for being a “hard grade” won’t serve you at all - self-justifying negativity will land you on the rejection pile before you’ve even left the building.</p>

<p>The one thing I can kind of empathize with you is on the subject of the Senior Gift. Most Seniors are broke - they’ve spent four years going to school, and have no money, and when their class starts hammering them for a contribution, most can’t help but wonder “with what?” Which isn’t the same as somehow hating their school - every W&M grad I know are very proud to have attended there. </p>

<p>Here’s the thing - I’m not disputing W&M wasn’t the place for you. Your advice, while overly broad and lacking in supportable assertions, does underscore the fact that W&M isn’t for everyone. No college is. The W&M student body and culture is different from UVA, which is different from JMU, which is different from VT, and on and on. And if your posting prevents someone from enrolling there with the expectation of easy grades, “Animal House-style” 7-day-a-week keg parties, and a jock-ocracry worthy of the SEC, then that’s a good thing. It’s best for everyone - the student, and the school - that the student is happy there. I don’t know anyone who’d want someone to enroll in the school based on a faulty sense of what the school is about. </p>

26

<p>If you think kids that make things like this are going to be " kids are precisely the ones who’ll be getting those jobs at the Big Four, who’ll get into those top-10 law, medical, and other graduate schools."… You need your head examined.</p>

<p><a href=“Lips: Expressions of Female Sexuality, Spring 2013 | The W&M Digital Archive”>https://digitalarchive.wm.edu/handle/10288/18064&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Also, for all of those people that think I am just trying to spit negative poison on William & Mary… I start my job doing consulting at in NY on June 30. I got the job through family connections. </p>

<p>My job hunt (really my internship hunt the year before) was actually what gave me the idea to post this a few months ago. It was really frustrating that kids from schools that dont have nearly the reputation of W&M were getting jobs over W&M kids. I think that’s W&M’s fault.</p>

<p>My point of this was to try and steer as many kids as possible away from W&M before they have to decide schools on 5/1</p>

27

<p>You’ve lost me with that link, wmstudent14. Are we supposed to faint dead away at the thought of a publication on human sexuality? What does that have to do with your points about W&M students having no time for fun, the undeserved treatment of fraternities by W&M administration, and the dire job prospects faced by W&M grads? </p>

<p>You have a valid point to make here. As most respondents have agreed, W&M is not for everyone, and particularly not for students who don’t want to work hard for their grades. I hope you have steered as many of those kids as possible away from W&M, so that they aren’t posting in 2018 about their miserable experience there. But the many, many students who will thrive there deserve to hear facts as well as opinions.</p>

<p>You lose credibility by attacking responses merely because their authors are long-time cc members with many posts. Respond to their points with evidence, and you’ll be more persuasive.</p>

28

<p>I read CC for 10-15 minutes every few days; I’m good thanks. I notice you did not taking any issue with the points I made, just that in 10 years I have posted a number of times.</p>

<p>Very impressive that you got a job through family connections. Good work. I hope you are successful and make arguments with better support than you do in this thread. If not, you will probably not provide much value as a “consultant”</p>

29

<p>I don’t think I’m a weirdo?</p>

<p>I’ve always genuinely loved W&M and was so upset that I didn’t get in for my freshmen year. I personally LOVE that there’s no party scene. Where I’m currently at, there’s too many parties and no one takes their work seriously. Very few people are passionate about what they study. At W&M, I found that. I love books. I also love socializing and talking about global politics or the economy. People at W&M do that. It’s not weird because everyone’s weird and W&M embraces that in its “small, smart, and historic” motto. </p>

<p>It sounds like a lot of people chose the name of the school and the reputation of it over the place that genuinely fit them. It sounds like this person may have fit in better at JMU or UVA, where there are more “activities”. </p>

<p>I’m so excited to go to school at W&M next year and be surrounded by "TWAMP"s. What’s wrong with being passionate about something? The classes are great, the campus is beautiful, it’s not overwhelmingly large, and there’s not excessive partying. Sounds great to me.</p>

30

<p>Okay I haven’t even read the whole thread, but as a tour guide, I strongly feel the need to defend William & Mary and the Admissions office.</p>

<p>I LOVE William & Mary. I’m a member of a social sorority and several other on-campus organizations. William & Mary has given me some of the smartest, most compassionate people in my life, professors and peers alike. I have had classes that have changed my life, met the best friends I have ever had, and realized dreams that seemed impossible only several years ago. </p>

<p>The OP addresses several points in their post, primarily Academics and what is perceived to be a stressful atmosphere. I can honestly say that yes, while this college is difficult, it is by no means impossible–it just takes a bit of hard work. The point here is to achieve balance between studies and fun, and NOT to spend all of your time in the library. This is a difficult school, and a large part of why I chose W&M is that I wanted to be challenged–not to graduate Phi Beta Kappa. I’ve had classes here that have cemented my career goals and inspired me to publish my writing. It took some trial and error freshman year trying to achieve the balance between work and fun, but it is absolutely manageable and attainable. Know your limits, know your goals, and you’ll be just fine. </p>

<p>On the topic of fun, no, W&M isn’t your typical party school. Are there parties? Yes. Are there parties five nights a week? No. There are the Deli’s, AMP (substance free) events, nights lounging around with friends, Greek Life events, and yes, the triathlon. If you want to rage Wednesday–Sunday, you probably want to look for a larger, more urban school–W&M is not the place. </p>

<p>And finally, in terms of Tribe Pride–it takes many forms other than football games. Tribe Pride is cheering at basketball games with your friends, even when we lose. Tribe Pride is feeling proud to wear a W&M sweatshirt, and having strangers walk up to introduce themselves when they see you went to W&M. Tribe Pride is solidarity at the library with four of your closest friends the night before a geology test. Tribe Pride is Day for Admitted students, having students yell “Come to W&M!” whenever you give a tour. Tribe Pride is being proud to attend the school that has educated 4 US presidents (3.5, really), having met amazing mentors and professors, and having free access to Colonial Williamsburg. That is the meaning of Tribe Pride–not a partially full football stadium.</p>

<p>WMstudent14, I am truly sorry you had a less than ideal experience here. I really am. I hope your journey post-grad brings you happiness and success. But saying that “most students agree” with the things you wrote simply isn’t true. Is W&M an easy school? No–everyone will struggle here at some point, for some reason or another, because making the transition from childhood to college student is hard. It just is. But I wouldn’t trade any of the friends, experiences, or dreams I have gained by attending this school for the sleep I have lost. Attending W&M has brought me the sense of community and belonging that I had always wanted, but never found elsewhere, and when I conclude my tours by saying that W&M has brought me closer to my dreams, I mean it. It hasn’t been easy all the time, but it has been worth it–every dollar of out-of-state tuition–and I wouldn’t want to spend my four years anywhere else. </p>

<p>Just my two cents. #Harkuponthegale</p>

31

<p>The original poster lost all credibility with me when he/she insulted fellow students that he obviously thinks he is way better than - because those students prefer quiet socializing, quidditch team, etc. over whatever the OP’s preferred social activities are. The OP prefers to personally attack those who have respectfully disagreed with his posts. Insulting students for being themselves and being different from you shows a real lack of maturity OP. Good luck to you in NYC, I think your going to need it.</p>

32

<p>OP: your statement “I got the job through family connections.” is childish. You know with “family connections” people even get to be the President of this country we all hold so close to our hearts. So dont make a lot of that “family connections”. If even after getting through the 4 rigorous years at W&M you still flaunt a “family connection” to get a job, then I am really appalled that some folks like you got in to W&M to begin with.</p>

<p>Wish people like you would go to some other schools so that folks like me, waiting on the waitlist, can get in to W&M.</p>

33

<p>A different perspective from the parent of a social butterfly at WM: it is actually a lot of fun for the non-nerdy, non-bookworm, non-TWAMP type. My daughter made lots of friends and was very social. There was always something to do. </p>

34

<p>There are so many blatant, nonfactual lies in this initial post I find it comical. If you would like an honest and enlightening opinion regarding W&M, please inbox me! Don’t let someone who thinks the world is against them change your opinion on a school. </p>

35

<p>Well a job based on “connections” isn’t really all that. I bet if the OP had gone to another school his/her GPA would have been about the same and even a friend of his family would have seen right through that. Thankfully he had gone to a school like W&M because his family could not be that embarrassed by his performance there since its SO HARD</p>

36

<p>I have to agree with the OP, W&M is suffocating and does hold many back from full potential. Please think things through before attending…</p>

37

<p>Can you give us an idea of why you say that, @CollegeInformed? Are you an alum or the parent of a recent student at W&M? Your post history indicates that your son was interested in Florida colleges and will be a freshman at FSU in the fall.</p>

38

<p>frazzled 1, I’m not sure why you care so much about this… You have 5,000 posts on college confidential and I keep getting alerts that you are commenting on this thread. Find a new cause. Again, I went to WM for the last four years… I think I know a lot more than you do.</p>

<p>It ain’t called the “suicide school” for nothing…</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.wydailyarchives.com/local-news/5232-surge-in-deaths-leaves-william-and-mary-battling-suicide-school-reputation.html”>http://www.wydailyarchives.com/local-news/5232-surge-in-deaths-leaves-william-and-mary-battling-suicide-school-reputation.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

39

<p>Welcome back, wmstudent14. I hope your last set of exams at W&M went well. How’s the job working out? Those family connections are nice to have, whether you attended W&M, Yale, Bama, or refrigeration school, am I right?</p>

<p>Sorry the notifications bother you. Perhaps there’s a way to adjust your settings so that you aren’t notified when people comment on threads you’ve started. And you have the option of using the “ignore” function for posters you don’t want to read, as well. CC, so far at least, is not just for the cool kids. So whatever my reasons/qualifications for posting, I can post. People who want to know what disaffected students who wanted a different college culture think of W&M should read your posts. People who want to know what the parent of OOS students who paid nearly $300K to send two kids to the school for three degrees thinks should read mine. There is room for differing opinions here. </p>

<p>In your very first post, you said

So are you now saying that W&M IS a “suicide school”? I wonder if you can find us a data-based report on the suicide rate at individual US colleges. I’ve looked for one each time this subject has come up and never found one.</p>

40

<p>Guess I hit a nerve there huh? </p>

<p>The statistics are irrelevant here. The article is about the school’s reputation. It would be worthless for me to go and dig up statistics because the reputation would still exist regardless. </p>

<p>The string of recent suicides combined with the school’s culture and academic rigor created this reputation. Do I think it’s really a “suicide school?” No. However, I understand where people are coming from.</p>