Do private prep schools aid in better college admissions?

<p>In answer to your most recent question I would say no, don't move your child out of the school she's happy in, especially if it means a financial sacrifice, unless the public school is dangerous or incapable of private a decent education. As far as finding out about great colleges for her, you can do that research very well on your own via the various guidebooks, videos, and visits to nearby schools. As far as the high school experience, if your daughter is happy and doing well, that will be a great help both in terms of college admission and in terms of doing well in life generally. I agree with the first few posters who answered your first query; there's no single right anwer to whether it is better to come out of a good prep school or a good public school; the key is to get a good education so that you don't struggle in college, but it is also important to have a life beyond the classsroomn--ECs, friends, sense of place.</p>

<p>My perspective is shaped by our family's experience. We live in a district whose schools get mixed reviews--the top is considered pretty elite but funding is not great and opportunites for kids who don't get into the advanced track are often perceived to be compromised. Not having sent either child to the public middle school or high school it is hard for me to say if they would have done well in the public school but I suspect at least one of them woud have. Instead, both our children attended a well-regarded independent (as non-religiously affiliated private schools are called in our area) school that most colleges are fairly familiar with. Both did well in this high school--they were very good to excellent students in terms of both GPA and standardized tests and mostly had very good teachers. My son found a niche to display his creative talents, and my daughter found ways for her personality to shine. </p>

<p>The college guidance was indeed very good in terms of alerting parents when to schedule standardized tests, when to plan college visits, how to structure a list so it contained schools with various levels of what they called admissibility (that is, reach, match, safety), and occasionally providing insights into schools kids might not have thought of applying to. There are always four college counselors (two full-time andn two who also teach regular classes but have time built into their schedules to serve as college counselors for a senior class that mumbers between 120 and 130 each year. In that sense, the process was probably superior to what our public school would have offered. MY children received very good educations and were well prepared for attending rigorous colleges. I do not think, however, that they necessarily had a better background than kids from widely recognized good public schools, or than kids from the top track at our local public school. But certainly the college app process was well explained to both paretns and students, the counselors were generally available to the students, feedback on essays and interview techniques was widely available from both the counselors and the English teachers, and paperwork was handled extremely efficiently by a very nice departmental secretary.</p>

<p>The school does pretty well with college admissions but not as well in the last few years as it used to; that may be because personal ties between the college counseling office and some of the top schools are not what they were, or it may be that the school's students, though quite diverse ethnically, aren't offering the kind of socioeconomic,
geographical, or other diversity that colleges are increasingly looking for. But it still has quite a good track record. The success relates in part to the fact that the students really are well prepared academically and are encouraged to get involved in ECs and sports. But it also is tied to the reality that some families are really wealthy or well connected and those applications may very well get special consideration. I believe, now that I have been through two admissions cycles, that the favorable college admissions figures for private schools owe quite a lot to the athletic/wealth/connection factor as well as to academic preparation. My own children got into multiple excellent schools; one gaduated from his top choice and the other attends what I would characterize as a surprise good fit, a top ten school that would not have been on the list except for the college counselor's suggestion). But they mght very well have done as well coming out of the local school, assuming they had thrived at that school, which we will of course never know. </p>

<p>Regarding that issue of going to school with rich kids when you are not rich: I think that's a tricky one and depends very much on how your family sees itself and relates to people, and maybe to the degree of disparity there is. We are, I guess, at least upper-middle-income and well educated (multiple degrees), so we have the right credentials though not lots of money. However, at their school my children were certainly among the middle-middles or even lower-middles in terms of lifestyle (scholarship kids aside, and there are relatively few at this particular school--maybe 10 percent of each class). There will always be some snobs, whether in a private or a public setting, but in our case, after the first year or two, it was not a major issue. Not being one of the rich kids did not keep my children them from making friends and having a good experience at school, nor were they deprived of leadership opportunities (at least not many that I know of). However, going to private school did isolate them from our rather distinctive community, and it gave them a skewed idea of how people live, a sense that "everyone" has a beach house or a mountain house, flies away on skiing vacations at Christmas and warm-weather vacations over March break (athletics permitting); I regret that that and I think maybe they do as well. </p>

<p>My older child looks back on it in rather scornful wonder now, but acknowledges that the school gave him opportunites that might very well not have been available in public school. He is a rather specialized case and might not have flourished for the first couple of years of high school if not given a particular opportunity to do so. My younger child benefited from some lovely invitations to ski and beach houses from richer friends and we were comfortable with accepting them, knowing that real friendship was the basis for them. Also, I suppose another reason it more or less worked for our family is because--and this is cynical but a real factor--we were affluent enough to provide the same kidn of clothes other kids were wearing, though not in as large quantity or as many variations. Thanks in part to grandparent assistance, both children had safe, new, but not superexpensive cars to drive to school once they got their licenses. Our house and neighborhood are nice by normal standards. The fact that we don't an incredible rec room, five acres, and a pool meant that my chidlren spent more time at other people's houses than at ours, but since I knew the families, I felt that was fine. Most important, both children were recognized at school as kids who were contributing to the school community in various ways--good students, active in various activities, rather distinctive in personality and generally constructive. Frankly, I always felt that although we weren't contributing to the annual fund at the levels some parents were, my chidlren were helping to make the school the kind of place those parents wanted their children to attend. And keeping moderately active in the parent's association helps, too.</p>

<p>In reading what I have written I think it sounds like a success story that suggests one should go the private schol route but I don't actually mean it that way. I don't regret the money spent on tuition because I feel both children blossomed; I do somewhat regret that because of the cost of tuition we did not go on as many large-scale family trips as we might otherwise have done and all of us missed out on the enriching experience that would have been (though we did make a couple of March break trips to Europe when fares were low and terrorists were only something you read about). But if I were doing it again I am not sure I would be so quick to choose private school. I might move to a town with a more consistently admired schol system, or I might have a little more faith in my children and at least experiment with the public schools before sending them to private school. if you do continue to consider private school, try to get a good sense of the social aspect before you do it. Edcucationally it probably is a plus, but in terms of college admissions and life skills there may be more variables.</p>

<p>I've actually seen adcoms brighten up at the mention of my public school district. Of course, I think only those on the west coast know its reputation very well, but its a highly competitive district that's very very geared toward college prep (I think all four of our HS made top 200 schools in the country, with two in the top 20 or so). High GPA's from our district apparently look "very good" and have some weight. And, one of the amusing things, I got the second "worst" of the schools (Read: one in the poorer area). However, many of the adcoms I spoke to "brightened" up even at the mention of my school, and if not they recognized the district.</p>

<p>Our college counseling isn't great, but we usually send kids all over the country, and a fair bit go on to Ivies. Of course, in my Washington, Whitman is also recommended a lot, as are a swatch of California and Oregon schools. </p>

<p>The funny thing, I didn't have a clue how good our district "was" until this year. :P</p>

<p>You should consider the benefits of private school for reasons other than college admissions.</p>

<p>We had a great experience with the opportunities afforded to my son during high school that would not have been available to him at our local public school. These included stronger academics, better theater department, more diversity, and stronger athletics.</p>

<p>He did have a lot of disappointed classmates who went to this particular school in quest of the elusive ivy admission. Many of his friends did not gain admissions to their top choice schools, and their parents were shocked.</p>

<p>I would not advocate anyone sending their kids to any school for the college counseling. First of all, that is not what those 4 years of life and growing up are all about. I can blather on about all of that, but if college is the only reason a kid is in a highschool or not in a highschool, you are certainly defining things too narrowly. Second of all, even the best college counseling situation may not be the best for your kid. I have seen countless families, bitter of the outcome of the college process because their expectations of what they felt they would get from a specific school did not pan out. If your kid ends up wanting schools that do not fit the area of expertise of the college counseling team, it does not matter how good they are on what they do--they don't do that. As an example, I know of several kids at our prep school who did not get into some large state schools where the gpa/SAT are a set academic index and they do not adjust for the type of school you come from. The fact that there is no class rank, no weighting of courses, no AP designation sank them. No question about it. A call to the adcoms confirmed it. There are kids from top preps that cannot get into their own state flagship schools, miss out on honors programs and do not get merit money because of the grading scales of these top schools. Not so good if that is where your kids wants to go to school. Also, sometimes too much info from the college counselors to the adcoms is not so good. In many public highschools, the GC deliberately insulates himself from the students and you can paint your own picture of yourself with a resume, interview, transcript and questionnaire. In a small school, everyone knows everyone and everything and that personal touch does not benefit everyone. It is possible the counselor just may not like your kid or his style. In the vanilla flavored recs some public schools routinely give, it would not make a difference, but in the detailed submissions from private schools plus those great personal connections, some info may slip out that is not so favorable to the kid. </p>

<p>I know at our school, if you are into the LACs, there is some boost in going there, as many of the teachers came from such environments and it is a small academic world. I have seen kids get into certain schools with a little help. But if those are not on your kids' lists, it is not going to do any good. And as a freshman, it is difficult to predict what precisely is going the case for your kid. I knew several kids in Westchester County that would have been better off with the science research programs in such districts as Byram Hills where several kids make Siemans semifinals each year, as opposed to some preps schools where there is no infrastructure to do those things. Also the mandatory sports and community service requirements many prep schools have are not specifically beneficial for someone who could be better spending his time on something else. It so depends on the kid.</p>

<p>We felt we couldn't afford a prep school and sent our kids to a well-regarded public, from which they went on to ivies, elites. While I don't feel they were the least disadvantaged in college admissions, I will do my best to insure my grandchildren go to excellent private schools. My own children just did not have enough appropriate educational opportunities during that time in my opinion. I think it is a miracle they made it through without having every intellectual impulse thoroughly squashed. And this is a good public that routinely sends the top of the class to the top ivies.</p>

<p>I agree with "dogs," & some others, that a variety of factors can make a difference. My own D, with her quiet personality, flourished at a small private school in a way that she would not at a large public; that got her a lot of attention (& even though many others in her small class were also strong achievers like her). The smaller Senior class at this school provided more personal attention, follow-up, etc. by the GC. However, the quality of the GC was as important as the size of the class. The three previous classes had two inadequate GC's, successively, resulting in poor college placements for the high school during those yrs. That was despite the very fine academic reputation the h.s. has on the East Coast.</p>

<p>We have a friend at a large public school with an excellent reputation & student body. There are so many high-powered achievers at that school, that our friend has been doubly hindered by both that fact and by the size of the (single!) GC's student load. This student needed special attention to get noticed by colleges, & a more diverse list than many other students needed. (She's fine academically & in e'c's, just not as stand-out as the many over-achievers there.) She has already rec'd 1 Reach + 3 Safety rejections, & is expecting at least 3 reach/match rejections in the near future. </p>

<p>As to the question of the quality of a class, this is actually a 2-edged sword. People tend to look at it as a question of how it affects the top students, whose achievements & rank will look diluted juxtaposed with other achievers. However, it is also true in my D's class, anyway, that the supportive atmosphere, their collaboration & mutual inspiration have, I believe, enabled the capable students to accomplish even more. The abundant intellectual stimulation among peers has been operative in the advancement of all of them, i.m.o. There is already a very fine college acceptance list, & I expect more good news within 2 of weeks. (P.S.: This is not a very "connected" class, economically, legacy-wise, etc. I would not call this h.s. a feeder-type prep school, merely one with an excellent academic profile.)</p>

<p>one of the main advantages of going to a prep school, as mentioned in other posts, is the individualized attention of the GCs. However, the GCs at many prep school also have better and closer relationships to some adcoms. For example at my h.s. one of my classmates was waitlisted at both brown and dartmouth. He really really wanted to go to Brown. A few days later he got a call from dartmouth saying that he'd been taken off the waitlist. My friend was happy but he still wanted to go to Brown. So he went to our GC he called the adcom at Brown, which he had really tight relations with, and told him that the kid had gotten into dartmouth and was going to accept...the GC asked the adcom to reconsider and over the phone they instantly took the kid off the waitlist and admitted him. </p>

<p>I definitely think that prep school give you an advantage in getting admitted to selective schools. In my graduating class of 60, 32 went to an Ivy, 2 to MIT, 4 to Stanford, 1 Caltech, 8 to UCs (out of state), 11 to top LACs (Pomo, Swat, Middlebury, Williams, etc.), and 2 to the local state honors college.</p>

<p>It's important to keep in mind that your child will probably not be accepted at a private school where she won't do well. The bottom of the class is generally athletes, kids from special programs and legacies. A middle class, unconnected kid will get in only if they appear very capable by the school's standards.</p>

<p>hypermom:</p>

<p>What grade is your D in? One of the key benefits of a private high school is the superior guidance, as many have said. And this guidance is in place since at least 9th grade, for college preparation involves course selection and steering students toward ECs, not just the college application itself. But this benefit can be obtained far more cheaply by parents educating themselves, by good high school counselors and private college counselors (and by CC!).
Another issue is the quality and range of course offerings. If your public high school offers the possibility of honors classes and a good selection of APs, and there are enough high-achieving students, then the public school might be a good choice for your D.
Still another is the student body. There should be enough students focused on academics to provide the kind of spur and support that is taken for granted at top private and top public schools. My S, as I mentioned, attends a public high school that is very diverse ethnically and socio-economically. The median SATs are below the national level, but as the superintendent pointed out, more students take the SATs in our hs, and the top performing students outperform the national average (the large proportion of lower-performing students bring down the SATs scores). If I remember correctly, the school had 12 NM semi-finalists this year. While my S has a very diverse group of friends, he is in classes that are challenging and with excellent students.
A consideration for us was that students at our high school have access to college classes. Many students, for example, take multivariable calculus and linear algebra in college, as well as some science classes. So if your high school is located near to a college and the high school permits students to attend the college, that would be another plus in its favor. My S has so far taken 8 college courses. The total cost to us has been less than $1,000.
Another factor to consider are ECs. Does your high school have Ecs in areas your D is interested in, be it arts, sports, or academic subjects? There are other factors to consider, such as school climate and friendships. Good luck making a decision.</p>

<p>S went to independent elementary and middle schools and a public high school (in a high quality county school system). The public school had many, many more opportunities for both academic advancement and in his EC areas. I agonized over the decision back then, but he has flourished, loves his school, and I was spared having to come up with $85,000 over four years.</p>

<p>I think that a few of the the criteria for selecting an independent high school vs. a public school would be: 1) how is the school district? If really substandard, independent school may be best; 2) Is there a magnet school that the student can get into? If so, public school can be dynamite 3) Does the student have LDs, are they ADD, depression, OCD, etc? If so they can often get better mainstreaming as well as more accomodations in an independent school. 4) Is the student quiet and/or shy, such that they would be unlikely to participate in discussions in a large class? Once again, independent school can be the perfect remedy for gaining confidence. You pay for the nurturing and individual attention, which can be well worth it.</p>

<p>That said, I found that the teachers were, as a group, better in the public school - S has only had one in four years that he thought wasn't up to par. There was more teacher turnover in his private school because the pay is less than the publics, and also a higher percentage of advanced degrees in the public arena.</p>

<p>As I have mentioned here many times before, the success of any particular student overwhelmingly depends upon the abilities and ambition of that student.</p>

<p>I believe that one reason many private schools have impressive admissions statistics is twofold. First, they have a self-selective student body, one where the students and/or families place a high premium on education. Then there are socio-economic issues to consider. A family able to afford a $20,000 prep schol education are more likely to have over-achieving students, at least that is what the SAT statistics indicate. In addition, these high socio-economic families are able to have there children apply ED, a luxury middle-class families feel they cannont risk. They are also more likely to indulge there children with other advantages that might show up on the application, sports summer camps, academic summer experiences, SAT tutoring, private acting/voice/instrument lessons, etc. The children of some families may have some legacy advantage. And finally, most colleges are NOT need blind so they may have some advantage at colleges like Hopkins, WUSL, CMU, et al.</p>

<p>I do not have any personal experience with private schools, but I doubt there is much advantage. In our area, parents who send there children to private prep schools live in areas with excellent public HS's. The only situation where I see a significant advantage is with scholarship students coming from areas with poor public schools.</p>

<p>The "prep school" college advisor is a big plus especially if they have a relationship with college adcoms. Parents can support and subsidize a public school's effort to help students get into college, but it is difficult for a parent to develop a long term relationship with college adcoms.</p>

<p>People who can afford to pay for private schools tend to live in districts where the education is decent. Most of my D's honor and AP classes do not seem to have behavior problems, but you have to deal with it at the school level and the occassional non-honors class. If I lived in Manhattan, I might be concerned about public high school more than if I lived in an upscale suburb.</p>

<p>If my daughter was doing well in school and I felt she was challenged and supported I would not change her just because a private school might have a better rep with colleges.
My older daughter attended a private prep school, but her sister is attending a inner city public comprehensive high school. In fact many private school students every year transfer into the public high school wanting a more diverse larger school experience.
I realize that not every school has the reputation of the public school, but it has been our observation that public students actually have an edge because adcoms know that they have not had as extensive of resources for their education and are likely to have higher potential that what is shown</p>

<p>My sense of the advantages of public vs private in my community regarding college depend upon the student, and what type of college the student is looking for. The very top student will do equally well academically at either our excellent public or the small private that my kids attend(ed). They may feel better about themselves and have more fun at our small private, simply because they don't have any stigma about being nerds ;) and they have more extracurricular and sports opportunities (less competition :) ).
For those students just under that top tier (where I think my S will fall ) the small private is better if he wishes to go to an out of state lac or private university because his teachers know him intimately - well enough that it's hard to decide which teacher to ask for a rec! They know the boy behind his grades, and even beyond the classroom, as they are the same people whom he interacts with for activities and electives. I feel that for any college that requires a teacher's rec, my kid will have an advantage over his public school friends.
Naturally, my son think he wants his public university ! - We're in CA and have several good choices. But recs won't help him a whit since they don't accept them, and in fact, his chances probably would have been better at the more selective ones if he had gone to the public high school. His gpa would have certainly been a bit better, and much easier to obtain. No regrets, though. He's loving his "family" for now, and is preparing for his adventure back into the big public sphere. He'll be ready and very well prepared - if he gets in somewhere!</p>

<p>I did not mean to imply you should pick private school for the counseling.
I believe the OP in her last post mentioned something about an independent guidance counselor - there have been several in depth threads on that topic, I would suggest searching them. The public school guidance issue often comes down to only the GC can write the GC recommendation. You can learn a tremendous amount from books and this site and colleges' websites, if you have the right personality, you can set deadlines for apps and essays, help with brag sheets, etc., or hire a private counselor to help with some of those things (Believe me, when it comes down to crunch time in Nov-Dec, it is nice to have the "Enforcer" to be external to the immediate family).</p>

<p>Staying in the public school is a very reasonable decision for a child that is happy. You should try to size up the counseling situation at your high school as much as you can - website, senior parents, schedule a visit. Again search this forum for threads on counselors - you will fast learn what good counselors do, what overworked, but well meaning counselors do, and what truly bad sounselors do. On the upside, when you find the thread about the principal's nephew coach turned counselor, kee[ in mind I really think the admissions people got a good laugh, and a good picture of the high school situation - so mediocre is not necessarily a bad thing ;).</p>

<p>My advice is if it's not broken, don't change it. We live in a suburban community with competitive public schools but many parents send their kids to private school. One reason is for smaller classes, better sports
(esp with the Catholic schools), more motivated students. I've seen kids who were tracked in lower groups improve academically in private school for these reasons. They also were admitted to higher ranked colleges not necessarily because of their academic record at the private high school but largely because of guidance counselor connections. But private school with more motivated kids motivated them and instilled in them the importance of education. My kids did well academically in our public high school and did not want to leave their kindergarten friends. But even though our guidance dept has improved over the years their college counseling was lacking so my H and I had to be very involved and knowledgeable. One kid who ended up at a HYPS was told to apply to Michigan State by his guidance counselor. Another who wanted radio/tv/film was told to apply to Gallaudet because of its communication program!!</p>

<p>I have 2 S's in highschool. One attends a private boys' school (his choice), the other attends a very well regarded public. The main difference I see besides the counseling (which is a huge difference due to numbers) is the class ranking. At my S's private school, it is VERY difficult to be in the top 10%. The curriculum is extremely challenging and all of the students there are extremely intelligent. There is basically no homework grade to factor in with tests and papers. At my other S's public, it is also challenging, but in a different way. If you do all of your homework and study for tests, you can be a straight A student, hence there are around 50 "valedictorians" every year out of a class of 450. The class rank issue has bitten some of the kids at the private. You are told that colleges take into account the "profile" of the school that students come from. But, class rank can really hurt you in Texas. Also I've heard that some of the kids did not get as much merit money because of their rank.</p>

<p>*momsdream - I read your posts about the admissions officers *</p>

<p>motheroftwo - my son said he thought the whole thing was "weird". I'm sorry your son felt left out. It is best that adcoms not react to certain schools. Kids are already feeling nervous enough as it is, sizing up their competition in the room. </p>

<p>Everyone should remember that there were specific scenarios that we previously identified as not being "prep school" friendly. If your child is interested in attending a larger school where admission is more numbers driven (UCs & Mich come to mind), prep/independent schools can really be a problem. Often, these kids have to apply with no calculated GPA, no rank and lower grades than their public school counterparts. This is fine if they are applying to a school that takes the time to read the app, understand the HS profile and "get" the bigger picture. But, some wonderful colleges just don't operate this way - numbers are fed into a computer and if your total meets the threshold, you're in. If not, you're out - and they don't care that you attend the top HS in the country and you are doing work that far surpasses anything the rest of their admitted students are doing. It's best to understand this risk going in. A private school kid who gets accepted at HYP can easily get rejected by a UC because the numbers don't work. </p>

<p>I'm with others - don't move your D to try to gain an advantage. I would never advocate a private school as a college admission strategy. If she's happy and finds the work challenging, you're in a good spot. We have some great public schools in this part of PA. I just can't afford to live in those districts! (Lower Merion School District - for Philly area folks) </p>

<p>But, I don't think burnout is an issue. In my experience, they are paced well and not put in a position of burn out. In addition, once they arrive on the campus of a rigorous college, they're already used to the pace/workload. We were told that was the main focus of senior year, getting them used to college pace. </p>

<p>BTW, I also know parents from our schhol who are shocked -SHOCKED! -that their kids didn't get into HYP. And, from what my son has told me, these kids met the criteria and then some. So, no guarantees anywhere!!</p>

<p>The elite New England Prep Schools typically send approx. 35% of their students to the Ivies. The best of these students target HYP (as reaches) with the other Ivies (as probables). In addition another 10 to 15% attend Ivy equivalent schools such as MIT, Stanford, CalTech, Williams, Amherst, Swathmore, etc.
One must remember however that you can not have an apples to apples comparison with the public schools. Student at the elite preps faced fierce competition to get in. They were judged not only on the basis of academics but on other passions they had developed. At Andover, one in five applicants is accepted. Most of these students would have done well wherever they went, but by putting them in a highly charged environment for four years, they come out totally prepared for the most rigorous of college programs.</p>

<p>My D went to an above average public (the top 10% tend to get into Ivies and elite LAC's) and did well in that environment. A few posts have mentioned that the better/elite schools push their kids to go ED to increase their averages.</p>

<p>My daughter wanted to go ED to make her choice closer to a good-bet. Her GC fought her all the way: almost refusing to let her go ed. The GC felt she was limiting herself and preferred that she apply to some slightly more prestigious schools (in her mind) and also see what kind of financial offers she might receive from all schools.</p>

<p>She asked to meet with us over it and explained that for her to do her job she had to discourage us from applying ed. She also told us that most of the better school's GC's were trying to discourage ed because it only benefits the colleges, not the students.</p>

<p>Are daughter ended up going ED in spite of her GC's pressure because, she said, she would not be as happy anywhere else; but, I was happy with the advice and efforts of our D’s public school GC (I wish we would have known about cc a little sooner).</p>