Do private prep schools aid in better college admissions?

Parents Forum
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<p>A friend of mine told me that private prep schools are the gateway to good colleges and that her son had gotten into Wesleyan mainly because of the private prep school education he got. Did any of you feel that the private school was the main contributor to your child's success in college admissions. What effect does the reputation of the high school have in the college admissions for reputed colleges?</p>

<p>I see some prep schools keeping the students so busy, that they loose steam when they come out of those schools, and have an urge to relax in college.
What are the pros and cons of private school education vs. a decently good public school education?</p>

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<p>My kids' private school does not actually fit the image that i think you have in mind, ie reputation, boarding, etc. The big advantage it does have is excellent college guidance/support, with a very small ratio of guidance to students. I think that gave DD a real advantage over most public school kids. Now we'll see with DS who in a few years will not be applying to competitive schools.</p>

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<p>More kids from public schools get admitted into colleges over private school because of the overwhelming number of applicants are from public schools.</p>

<p>These are relative terms as to what constitutes a good private prep school and what constitutes a good college. Do a large number of students who attend Andover, Exter, St. Pauls end up in Ivy league/elite LAC's- with out a doubt. It depends on the private school as all private schools are not created equal. </p>

<p>My daughter is a product of the NYC public school school system from kindergarten until the day she graudated, (but she at the time she attended her elementary and middle school were the number 1 public schools in the city) and got into every college that she applied to.</p>

<p>We live in NYC where a large number of students from the top public H.S's attend "good" colleges in large numbers. we also know kids that have been in private schools all of their lives and did not get int the Ivies/elite lacs- it happens everywhere.</p>

<p>The great thing about private school is that you will most likely have smaller class sizes and better access to counseling. Have you looked at the pros and cons of your public school? Is your school a feeder to any specific college, what is the track record for students that graduate from the school. Ask the school for a copy of the school profile.</p>

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<p>The short answer is it depends. It depends on the quality of the public high school AND of the private school. Wes, by the way, is a very popular choice in my S's highly diverse, urban public school. Most years, some students also get admitted to Harvard (6 EA this year), MIT (3 this year), Yale, Brown and top LACs. We also have students who do not manage to pass the high stakes exit exam.</p>

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<p>I second Cangel, sybbie and Marite's comments - as usual :). </p>

<p>My son's school (private) assigns 1 college guidance counselor to every 10 students. </p>

<p>They also have a very organized system for managing though the application process. Students meet with the assigned guidance counselor (you have the option to select which GC you want if you send in the request early enough) in the Spring of Jr year. </p>

<p>After that, the GC meets with the student and their parents, and they lay out a plan to achieve the student's desired goals as discussed in the earlier student-only meeting. At this point, the GC may present the student with a list of suggested schools that match the student's goals and interests. The list is only a suggestion as a place to begin.</p>

<p>Parents are given a writing assignment, and have to send in a narrative response to several questions posed about their child. </p>

<p>Then they hold group meetings and social events with all of the parents and GCs (dinner at someone's home, etc). This is really fun because us parents were able to compare notes and see that we were all experiencing much of the same thing - kids refusing to get our of the car at various schools, kids not wanting to complete apps, etc. Lots of laughs! This part was very helpful. </p>

<p>They then break the parents into smaller (mini) groups of 10 or so and the parents meet for dinner or whatever over a weekend - to talk about the process, share experiences, etc. All in all, parents attend about 6-8 meetings/outings before it's all said and done. </p>

<p>The timeline for apps is very strict. If you apply ED, you must have your list of schools in by XX date. The schools sends out the transcripts and recommendations directly - we never see them. Also, outside recs are sent to the high school. The school doesn't share the outside rec with the student. This is where a school can really set itself apart. </p>

<p>Our GC told us that many outside recs aren't too useful because they are generic - but she asked that we get one from an intership my son did. When she received it she decided that she would take quotes from the outside rec and insert them into her rec, "so and so from XX said the following about momsdream"s son - "very interesting quote" please see attached recommendation for more" ...so the college would have to read the quotes, at minimum - and she felt that the quotes were strong enough to draw an adcom to the other rec. Then she would refer to the outside rec, which would be attached. Their college app list is reviewed by the GC to enure that they target appropriately. This was all expalined as the process went along - and I was in regular contact with the GC, who was more than happy to talk at length and always said things like "I'm so glad you called with this question!"</p>

<p>All of this is probably part of what your friend meant. Of course, the "connections" are always important. </p>

<p>When we first visited Swarthmore (this was the first school we ever visited) the adcom who led the session asked my S what school he was attending. When my son answered with the name of his school, the adcom said "oh, well, if I have any questions about your app I'll just call (first name of head of college guidance at son's school) and ask more. Son's jaw dropped and he whispered to me "that's cool! he knows people at my school". </p>

<p>On another day we attended a session for potential applicants at an Ivy. We sat up front. My son stood to ask a question and the announced his name and his high school. The adcom put his hands in his pockets, leaned back on his heels and repeated the name of the school with a few nods and a big smile, sort of like you would do if you heard the name of your HS sweetheart. </p>

<p>I don't think anyone should assume that the HS is the sole reason their kids got into anywhere. After all, the kids are the ones doing the work and prep schools are hard. A "C" student at a top prep will get rejected like everyone else. </p>

<p>But, all things being equal (kids from schools with less respources and the same grades, SATs and ECs as prep school kids), I think the resources make all the difference. The right phone call from the right person...and, you know...</p>

<p>sorry for any typos...I need to leave and this response is longer than I expected.</p>

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<p>I think a move to the regular parent's forum would best serve this discussion. This is really a "colleeg admission" discussion, not a cafe discussion.</p>

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<p>There are public schools such as TJ in Virginia, Stuy and Bronx Science in NYC, Scarsdale and a few others that have placement to match the top prep schools such as the ones Sybbie mentioned and places like Harvard-Westlake in LA and some of the top NYC day schools. Otherwise, I don't think many public schools can compare if we're just talking college placement with top private schools.</p>

<p>Note, there are many sub par private schools. You will want to look at enterance requirements and average SAT scores in addition to college placement to get a handle on what you can expect from a private school.</p>

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<p>I think a move to the regular parent's forum would best serve this discussion. This is really a "college admission" discussion, not a cafe discussion.</p>

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<p>Also when you look at top colleges, you'll often see a split of 65/35 public/private. When you consider only 7% of kids in the Country attend private schools, which includes many perochial schools, the numbers are telling.</p>

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<p>zagat:</p>

<p>better numbers are found on 1040's of the applicants. As mini points fequently out, more than half of the kids at the top Ivies and LACs pay full freight, which would put their parents in a top income statra. Similarly, one would have to be in that top tier to afford a school like Harvard-Westlake. Thus, there is a lot of self-selection. </p>

<p>Further, there might be a belief that a private school resume makes for better chances into the highly selective schools, so parents of those extremely bright, talented kids send 'em to privates. But, I would suggest that those bright talented kids would be phenoms at public schools, as well, and look just as attractive to private adcoms.</p>

<p>But, no doubt, that GC's at privates offer a big, big plus.</p>

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<p>There's an issue of distance from the colleges of interest, and expectations. My daughter may have gotten a top-notch education at the "real" St Pauls, but unless her personality developed differently, she would have been so far down the class, I'm not sure what her outcome would have been (She would she that she was better off at her school that has more in common with Sybbie's daughter's public school than with Exeter).
The other observation I would make is that her school has limited classes to choose from, it was easy for her to take the most difficult course load, and for the adcom to understand her transcript - again that goes back to the guidance office. Very traditional curriculum with very little "fluff". Now I know the students at the very selective preps have many electives, particularly in humanities, that approach the level of college classes, but her friends in public schools here take classes with "imaginative titles" that are basically designed to get the child to graduation.
For example, our state requires a 4X4 curriculum and algebra and geometry for graduation. For many public students that translates to geometry plus algebra I, plus algebra IA, plus algebra Ib equals 4 years.</p>

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<p>There's an issue of distance from the colleges of interest, and expectations. My daughter may have gotten a top-notch education at the "real" St Pauls, but unless her personality developed differently, she would have been so far down the class, I'm not sure what her outcome would have been (She would she that she was better off at her school that has more in common with Sybbie's daughter's public school than with Exeter).
The other observation I would make is that her school has limited classes to choose from, it was easy for her to take the most difficult course load, and for the adcom to understand her transcript - again that goes back to the guidance office. Very traditional curriculum with very little "fluff". Now I know the students at the very selective preps have many electives, particularly in humanities, that approach the level of college classes, but her friends in public schools here take classes with "imaginative titles" that are basically designed to get the child to graduation.
For example, our state requires a 4X4 curriculum and algebra and geometry for graduation. For many public students that translates to geometry plus algebra I, plus algebra IA, plus algebra Ib equals 4 years.
At her school, even the kids in the lowest curriculum take algebra I and II, geometry and algebra III/trig.</p>

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<p>Well, there are several things at play. First, as pointed out by others, the kids at top private schools are already extremely bright and competitive or they wouldn't be there. </p>

<p>But the big question is what, then, do they get at the private school. IMO, they get an environment where teachers do not have to teach to the average student, mostly very bright and stimulating peers, small classes, no behavior problems and so on. </p>

<p>Colleges rightfully expect more from these kids because they have been in very focused learning environments that should make it more feasible to excel. </p>

<p>However, at a Harvard-Westlake, and I would think the "real" St. Paul's
and peer schools, kids in the top half go to top colleges. Once we get past the very top who whould stand out anywhere, I do believe these schools are making more of potential than we could possibly expect a public school to.</p>

<p>Bottom line, if you can afford it, send kids to a great private to give them great educations. It won't hurt for college.</p>

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<p>My kids attended a large a large average public high school which sends a few students to private schools each year, but many from the top of the class to the state university. Less than half the students go on to four year colleges from our h.s., and about 30% to community college. I must say that the school offers many opportunities, both academically and in ECs, for those who wish to take advantage of them. The main thing lacking in our school compared to a prep school, I think, is the guidance. It is up to the parents and the students to figure out what is needed to be a viable applicant to the schools of interest, and also to figure out what schools are appropriate for the student. Guidance really provides no help - no one even tells students about SAT 2s at our school, for example, and many seniors suddently realize they have to take these when they put together their college list. Both of my kids made out fine in the process - I don't think the outcome for them would have been different if they had attended a prep school. My son attends Stanford and he was admitted to the comparable schools on the East Coast, too, and my daughter applied ED to Kenyon and received a merit scholarship. However, the counselor had never even HEARD of Kenyon before, though he is approaching retirement, and we are in an adjoining state to Ohio. To sum up, students from public schools will make out fine in the college application process if they take it upon themselves to do what is needed to prepare for college. In contrast, at a prep school, there is more guidance to direct the students to do what is needed to prepare for college.</p>

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<p>momsdream - I read your posts about the admissions officers at Swarthmore and an Ivy lighting up when they heard which h.s. your son attended, and mentioning that they knew his counselors. I would like to tell the story from the other side - when we attended an information session at an Ivy, the admissions officer reacted in the way you described to a student from a prep school. They also made a fuss over students from abroad and some other students, I can't remember the details. It made my son feel like dirt when he heard that - like he was nothing and he had no chance at the school (he was a 16 year old junior at the time.) In the end, he was admitted to that school, so it didn't matter, but, at the time, he was quite upset by the experience.</p>

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<p>momsdream, you suggested moving this to another forum, unfortunately, I don't know how to do that. Sorry.
Many thanks to all who responded.</p>

<p>If I have a good private guidance counselor, while my child attends a reasonable (but not a top-notch public school), can I expect the results to be close to that she would be getting at a top private school ?
(BTW, when I am saying private school, I am refering to the top-tier high schools.)</p>

<p>My daughter is very reluctant to leave her circle of friends in her current public school. We are not very well-off or anything like that, but with hard work, may be can afford the private high school education. I am afraid, that my child might be in an environment where everyone else is well-off and might not fit in. Besides that, I am afraid of the burn out rate by having to go through such rigorous academic courses in high school itself... I have concerns on the impact on confidence etc...
Any opinions, suggestions?</p>

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<p>Hypermom:</p>

<p>My son attends one of the prep school named by sybbie. He is attending on a full financial aid as we are lucky to have this opportunity provided by the prep school. I would say send your daughter to this competitive environment if she is willing to do so. In our case, it was our son's desire to go to a school like that. We never heard about the prep school befor he applied and asked me to take him for the interview. His experience has been phenomenoal and he likes it a lot. He loves the school challenging environment as he is being taking courses beyond APs in 10th grade. In addition kids may find interest which they have not explored before. However, I must say do not send your daughter if she is not the one interested. The environmrnt is sometime very demanding. I have seen few kids left the place as they colud not take it. </p>

<p>My honest opinion is kids should go to prep school if parents can afford it and kid is the one who initiates it. This is most nurtring environment if one wants to pursue thier passion. Othewise it is not a place. If kids are willing to work hard equally, they can perform better in public school too. I have no idea about college placements as my son is still far away from the process. Good luck to your dauhter.</p>

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<p>My S attends a private prep school on the west coast. The college counseling works much like what momsdream described. The head of college counseling there is a full time job in a high school of about 250 kids, and there are two other teachers who do college counseling as part of their jobs. So each has between 10-25 seniors each year. </p>

<p>While I haven't heard any stories about the adcomms lighting up in general info sessions, they routinely visit our school and skip many of the much bigger publics. When my son went to one info session at his school, he was the only one there, and had a one on one with the adcomm for close to an hour. A big group might be a dozen, of whom some will be juniors, who tend to listen and learn, allowing the seniors to ask the questions. The head of college counseling has been in the business 20+ years and is very respected and well known nationally. I have no doubt all this helps, at the ivies and LACs, and top 50 schools. If the GC doesn't know the adcomm at a school where a kid is applying, or they feel the school doesn't know our school well, they make a point of meeting that person at a conference they routinely attend every fall where GCs mix with adcomms. </p>

<p>However, it is less helpful at state schools that are more numbers driven. They do not always know our school and its reputation, and because there is absolutely no grade inflation, the GPAs are lower and that can count against a kid. But the lower GPAs haven't stopped our kids from getting into the top schools. </p>

<p>One last point - the kids work really hard! My S feels like he has attended an LAC for the last 4 years and I tend to agree. And he has no interest in keeping up the intense pace in college. But he is not typical of his class in that way. BTW, kids who end up at top places routinely come back and say one of two things: either that they worked harder in HS, or that in their perception they were extremely well prepared for college, much better than their peers at that college.</p>

<p>Sorry for the typos - gotta get my H to work! One result of all that private school tuition is we share a car!</p>

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<p>It doesn't make sense to me to send a kid to private school for the college counselling, although I know it is far superior to what we have at our high school. Parents can educate themselves about college admissions, and since you've found this board you have the skills to learn more. This forum is a great resource, and there are numerous books out there. A child that is a star in the public school might not even be in the top half of a super competitive private class, and I would guess that those counselors dole out the colleges accordingly. There was an article a couple years back about a boy who had gone to Groton School with hopes of HYP. The family came across in the article as sounding like they had paid for something they didn't receive (an Ivy admission). There are no guarantees. I do think private school counselors are much more aware of the range of schools and each child's chances at admission. Our public high school was beyond dismal as far as giving any helpful information. The good thing is that the information is out there - for free - you just need to ask (friends, people with older children, people at other schools), read books, search the internet, find out if your high school or public library are holding any information sessions (on admissions, financial aid, etc). You can also check out the guidance pages of top public high schools. I think someone mentioned Belmont, Mass. recently as having a good web site. </p>

<p>I think private schools are amazing in what they offer to the kid who's ready for that environment. Many public school guidance departments are less than helpful. Also, it's just a gut feeling, but I think we can overstate the importance of school recognition. It's natural for an adcom to warm up to someone who mentions a school he's familiar with and naturally it's very hard on kids who witness this (same thing happened with my son) and are not from the recognized school. It gets noticed, but I can't imagine that it would make up for a deficient application. (If it did, we should just all give up.)</p>

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<p>I agree that it depends. Schools are looking for a well rounded class and many are trying to lower their private school admits due to a thrust to be more diverse economically , etc. On the other hand they will get better prep from their HS Counselor at a private HS. But..they will be competing with others in their class and so 4 private school students applying to a school like Brown or PENN vs 1 from a public school can factor in. In our area the private schools strongly push ED so they can have a higher admit rate to the more competetive schools. Thats fine for many kids but others prefer to see what comes up in April then make last vists on the accepted student days to see what feels right. Plus they will know then if any merit scholarships, etc are forthcoming. So there are pros and cons to any situation and entrance to college will depend on many factors. Kids are known to choose the best fot where they will be happy not necessarily the acceptance at the most competetive school so keep that in mind.</p>