Do some recruited athletes get "more support" than others?

Parent Cafe
1

<p>Do higher profile sports get more leway in their recruiting tactics?
Princeton for example, if two applicants had identicle talent levels and Grades. ECs.. etc, could the women's lacrosse recruit be denied with the basketball recruit gaining admission?</p>

<p>I wonder because I always see in the newspaper around this time, "Harvard Recruited football player" or "Committed to Princeton Basketball" as if they will be playing there no matter the admissions process.</p>

<p>Can anyone shed light on this topic?</p>

2

<p>I don't have too much experience on this topic, but my sister played women's lax at a DII school for a season. She was recruited by DI schools, but ultimately chose the DII school because of personal reasons and so she could start her freshman year...</p>

<p>Well her problem was that the lax coach had used all of her scholarship money for senior players and had no money left over for my sister. So at least at some schools, coaches are given a specific number of scholarships or a specific amount of money for scholarship. </p>

<p>High profile sports do have more scholarships available than the lower profile sports. However, I don't think they can take money away from lower profile sports that has already been allotted for scholarship. However, it may vary widely...</p>

3

<p>Most schools are allotted a certain number of scholarships regardless of how high profile they are. I believe for most teams it's 12.6 scholarships for the most high profile, but that can be spread if the athlete does more than one sport. For example, I have a friend at LSU playing football but his football scholarship money is taken from the 12.6 used for track as he was a national record holder in high school, leaving them with only 11.6 for the rest of the team.
Women will have an easier time with admissions (and getting scholarship money) anyhow, though, so I doubt a male basketball player would get preference over a female lacrosse player anyway.</p>

4

<p>to OP-- yes-- some recruits do get more support. "Revenue" sports (aka high profile) have more "slots" for coach picks than "non revenue." Stars get more support than bench warmers. Stars in revenue supports can have lower SATs; non-revenue athletes must pull up the average athlete SAT. This is said as the mother of a D3 athlete, non revenue women's sport, based on my experience. I know nothing about D1...</p>

5

<p>Absolutely! In our regional paper a highly recruited football player with an SAT of less than 1150 is being recruited by the Ivy Leagues. Enough said.</p>

6

<p>I think so. We have had some coaches actually mention this to us, that tennis is not a high profile sport or all the athletic scholarships are reserved for the basketball and football program.
And it 's all about givng a kid a chance.A student who wouldn't have the opportunity otherwise.And recognizing talent and rewarding what will give the university publicity, income, sell t shirts, etc. Really makes the university look like a nice guy.</p>

7

<p>Yes and yes. Most of the recruited athletes at son's HS have known what college they will attend since junior year. Girl's soccer and girl's vollyball are two fairly heavily recruited sports from our area. The kids don't get money, and these are not low - achieving or low income kids- just dynamite players. UCLA, Berkeley, Duke - they don't wait for test scores or even senior grades to ask the kids to sign.</p>

<p>Male soccer, however, is not in such demand. I think all the colleges money for men's sports goes into football/basketball.</p>

8

<p>"Absolutely! In our regional paper a highly recruited football player with an SAT of less than 1150 is being recruited by the Ivy Leagues. Enough said."</p>

<p>lots of players and coaches can say they're being recruited. lots of letters are sent out and lots of contacts are made--both ways! a kid from our area said he'd received a lot of interest from the ivies; but saying you're being recruited might not being the same as "really" being recruited. if you're a senior right now--being recruited to an ivy for football should probably mean you've got your likely letter in hand.</p>

<p>bottom line, they still have to have a certain AI or they just won't get in.</p>

9

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<p>But their AI is very different from the other applicant's AI. How can you even be compared to the other students if you're a junior in high school - no senior grades, no SATs, and you still get signed? Schools do make allowances for top athletes. They also offer a lot of special help once the kids get in. Athletics is big business in this country - valued as much if not more than academic excellence.</p>

10

<p>Two young men in our area went to the same Ivy to play football this fall. Believe me it was "in the paper" news. Their recruitment was announced in a joint article in ?Jan, ?Feb, close to, but not right at the uniform signing day for DI football, and at a time totally unrelated to ED, RD, etc. They even published the class standing and ACT of the young man from a local public. The other boy went to our big rival private school, so I know from football parents at the school that he was courted ?to what extent? by at least 3 Ivies, and got offers from at least 2 - offers that he was considering right now, before and after Christmas.
Obviously, for football at least, the process doesn't work exactly like either arm of regular admissions, but based on their experience, most likely letters from Ivies are out, probably with FA awards. The public school kid was being recruited by some non-Ivies (do they still have D2 or D1-AA?), so he had to wait to hear from those schools as well.</p>

11

<p>ivy leagues don't "sign" letters of intent because no money is involved. a junior might be able to say he has committed. i do believe that the ivies have a bottom line for their AI and it is a certain standard deviation from the average AI of the school. you can file for a waiver from this bottom line, but i don't believe there has been one granted in the ivies for a long, long time. if ever? </p>

<p>i'm copying a link to a news release on this topic. </p>

<p>"i am posting this link to provide you with some background on the academic index. i didn't look for the specifics for crew, but recruited athletes must fall into one of the ai bands. even if the coach really wants you, your ai must meet their requirements.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.dartmouth.edu/%7Enews/releases/2004/12/27.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.dartmouth.edu/~news/releases/2004/12/27.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>The athletic admissions process in the Ivy League is governed by a wide range of policies and regulations. The central feature in this regulation is the academic index (AI). This is a measure consisting of three parts using the high school rank or GPA, combined with the highest SAT I scores, combined with the three highest SAT II scores. All Ivy schools are obligated to use the exact same methodology in calculating AIs. In admitting students who are recruited as athletes in one of the 33 "Ivy championship" sports, each school has numerical limits (depending on the number of sports it offers), and an AI goal that is a function of the mean AI for its entire student body (i.e., four classes). The AI goal is one standard deviation from this mean. Most Ivy schools have very similar AI targets. Because the eight Ivy student bodies have slightly different profiles, their AI targets are very similar but not identical. In addition, there is a minimum AI, or floor, below which schools cannot admit an athlete without special dispensation from the League.
Football is the most closely monitored sport in the Ivy League. Given the range of competitive pressures surrounding football, it is monitored through a more detailed system of AI bands, or ranges, with very specific numerical limits on the number of football recruits that may be enrolled in each AI band. There are four bands corresponding to: class mean AI -1 S.D., 1 S.D.-2 S.D., 2 S.D. -2.5 S.D., and 2.5 S.D. - the Ivy AI floor. An average 30 football recruits may be enrolled each year distributed 8, 13, 7, 2 across the four bands top to bottom. No more than 120 recruited players may be enrolled over four years. Every Ivy school is obligated by the same system. This is an attempt to create a "level playing field"in terms of admissions standards."</p>

12

<p>matt,</p>

<p>I am sure sports recruits are treated differently depending not only on their particular sport, but also how much the team can use their particular talent, even their position.</p>

<p>My nephew just graduated from an ivy where he played a "high profile" sport. One of the reasons kids "commit" early even to ivies (where technically money is not a consideration ;) ) is the coach is trying to fill their particular position. For example if the coach needs a center for the basketball team, it behooves the player and especially the coach to snare the recruit as soon as possible. At that point (and if the coach convinces admissions the player should be accepted academically, and yes he needs a certain academic index to even qualify for the ivy league) the coach may end his search in next year's class for another center.</p>

<p>From my nephew's experience this is very true for the ivies and selective schools. You will be put on a pedestal, then dropped faster than a hot potato once your position is filled. So there is pressure on the kid to commit, before someone else commits who plays the same position. The kids go through the normal admissions procedure, they get their "acceptance" (though I believe it isn't absolutely official) early so the coach will know he has that recruit. N was "accepted" to his school in February, in other words some kind of agreement between N and ivy was made, but it isn't totally official (actually I'm not sure when the deal is officially complete given they don't sign a letter of intent at an ivy) till the acceptance in April.</p>

13

<p>I am the mom of a recruited athlete who has his likely letter in hand.</p>

<p>While the process seems mysterious, the coaches at all the schools that recruited my son were honest and straightforward about how they worked. They told us how many slots they had, how many players at what positions they needed to fill, what the bottom line academic stats were, etc.</p>

<p>My son had a very specific profile of the school he wanted to attend. Any coach from a school contacting him that didn't fit the profile was thanked, but S explained that he was looking for (as an example) a medium to large school with a great D1 lacrosse tradition, great academics, a business program, in a rural to suburban area, on the east coast, and no further south than Duke, no further north than Boston.</p>

<p>At the same time, the coach has profiles of his needed recruits. The academics have to fit, along with the position, skill level, athletic abilites, and style.</p>

<p>Since the coach has usually seen the kid play before making contact, the first question after how is your season is how are your grades. The coach needs to know if the kid has a shot at admissions before wasting his time.</p>

<p>The NCAA has a ton of rules about athletic recruiting. If your student athlete wants to play in college, check it out online.</p>

<p>What everyone wants to know is how much slide is there for an athlete. I was able to ferret out Duke's numbers by some diligent googling a year or so ago. This is from memory -- so I might be off a little, but the gist is the same. Typical Duke student -- 1400 SAT, typical lax player -- over 1200, basketball -- 900. Lots of slide!</p>

<p>My son was contacted by over 75 D1 and D3 schools with a smattering of D2. He <em>unofficially visited</em> schools he was interested in with me and my husband. After July 1 this year, the coaches got serious. There's lots of gossip about committing early -- it's only verbal and it doesn't really count. In fact none of it counts until admissions gives a yes after receiving transcripts and scores. Coaches can get an early read from admissions, so it's possible to do your unofficial visit in July and make a verbal commitment, get a positive response from admissions in August (so now you can tell people you are committed to BigU and it's only August) do an official visit in September, apply ED, get your likely letter, and the official ED acceptance in December. </p>

<p>However, although S has his likely letter ... I am not posting on the Big Master List of College Acceptances until he has his definite letter!</p>

14

<p>wbow & cpn55</p>

<p>Thanks so much for the education and I wish both of your kids well in this process and will be excited to hear the good news in the upcoming weeks.</p>

<p>I just wanted to add this:</p>

<p>From Dartmouth's </p>

<p>ALUMNI COUNCIL COMMITTEE ON ENROLLMENT AND ADMISSIONS
MAY 20, 2005
SUMMARY</p>

<p>C. Athletic Recruitment</p>

<p>• Class of 2009 has 211 recruited athletes (compare to 188 in Class of 2008)</p>

<p>• Explanation of Academic Index and how applied for recruited athletes; slightly different and more complex formula used for football players</p>

<p>• Academic Index is formula that takes into account athlete’s standardized test scores and high school grade point average; recruiting rules govern the range in which an athlete’s AI must fall in order to be accepted</p>

<p>• E.g.: Maximum AI is 240, and as a group, all matriculating recruited athletes must average within one standard deviation (13-15 points) from the mean AI of the entire class (214) – so, at least 200.</p>

<p>• Ivy League recruitment rules applied uniformly to all institutions but different schools may have different AI (Harvard, Yale and Princeton have a higher AI than Dartmouth; Brown and Cornell have a lower AI)</p>

<p>• Bottom line: recruited athletes are athletes of national/international/Olympic caliber and must basically be good students with respectable standardized test scores.</p>

<p><a href="http://alumni.dartmouth.edu/leadership/council/meetings/enroll-admissions.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://alumni.dartmouth.edu/leadership/council/meetings/enroll-admissions.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>NCAA Self-Study Academic Integrity - Dartmouth College</p>

<p><a href="http://www.dartmouth.edu/%7Enews/features/ncaacert/ncaa-academic.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.dartmouth.edu/~news/features/ncaacert/ncaa-academic.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

15

<p>But...... there was an article link posted on another thread on CC a few days ago that discussed atheletes dropping out of their big public HS or dual-enrolling at a correspondence high-school so they could boost their GPA's enough to meet the Academic Index. It was pretty egregious! Students were making D's in their public schools, then boosting their gpa's with A's and B's at the correspondence high school.</p>

16

<p>I think you have to make the distinction between the scholar-athlete that plays at the Ivies and the pro-bound athlete that wants to play college sports. There's a huge difference between what the NCAA considers academically eligible and what an upper tier college or university is willing to accept.</p>

17

<p>The correspondence courses are being used to satisfy NCAA core course requirements and/or minimum gpa in order to play Division I NCAA sports. Those guys aren't being recruited by Ivy coaches. The NCAA's minimum academic index is a sliding scale balancing gpa against standardized test scores. A gpa of 2.0 and SAT of 1010 will satisfy the NCAA, but not Princeton.</p>

18

<p>
[quote]
My son was contacted by over 75 D1 and D3 schools with a smattering of D2.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Holy hell, I was fed up after like 5 schools and just stopped answering calls, but I never got phone calls/actual contact with 75 different schools.</p>

<p>
[quote]
There's lots of gossip about committing early -- it's only verbal and it doesn't really count. In fact none of it counts until admissions gives a yes after receiving transcripts and scores. Coaches can get an early read from admissions, so it's possible to do your unofficial visit in July and make a verbal commitment, get a positive response from admissions in August (so now you can tell people you are committed to BigU and it's only August) do an official visit in September, apply ED, get your likely letter, and the official ED acceptance in December. </p>

<p>However, although S has his likely letter ... I am not posting on the Big Master List of College Acceptances until he has his definite letter!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That happened to me - verbally committed with a school, was told I was in by the coaches, then got waitlisted by admissions. I guess it happens more often than I thought, but I felt like I was the only person in the world to be rejected by a school he verbally committed to.</p>

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<p>eliptica - that is really terrible that you were waitlisted. did you then go to another school or eventually get into the school that recruited you?</p>

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<p>There aren’t a lot of recruited athletes in our area but the one who was wooed the most was a VERY bright football player from a weathly family. He was in the upper 10% of his class w/academically challenging classes and had high SAT scores. I think the combination of intellect plus athletic ability was a big plus for him.</p>