Wow just tuning in late to this party. I have heard some judgy things in my day, but as a parent who has one kid who may not graduate high school, I’m so happy to know that my friends don’t judge me or my child, at least I don’t think that they do. I believe that they know that Child’s effort, at barely finishing high school–and maybe dropping out still with only weeks to go–has been the biggest effort, taken an entire family, of nightly work and dedication to achieve for the past 12 years.
All I can say @OldFashioned1 is that church-going or not, the lesson about withholding judgement certainly needs to be reviewed.
It is impossible to see the struggle of a family with a child who gets terrible grades. The teachers, the principals of the schools all working together to barely push or lure a child through–and with weeks to go in the school year, we are still on tenterhooks waiting to see if this child will cross the stage and grasp a diploma. I tell you this: no single child has ever worked harder regardless of outcome.
Not all children are made the same. Good thing, too, because some of the most amazing things were created by super creative people who screwed up their high school educations. Some of the best authors, chefs, artists, inventors, scientists, and so many others never finished high school. I’m going to bet that several attended church, but several others attended mosques, temples of various sorts, and were atheists. If high school were so easy for everyone, then why is every high school story ever written about just how crappy and hard it is?
My lovely child will be at home after finishing school this year, with diploma or without diploma. We will hug child and love child and tell child what we do every day: that this child is a lovely human being who has already achieved what so many people haven’t achieved in their lifetimes. And that is that he is truly good and truly generous. As far as I’m concerned, that’s all that matters: you do your best, and you are kind and generous.
Me too. I have one kid who has a lot of trouble with the social aspects, but no issues at all with academic rule following. My other child is kind and would never show any disrespect, but had to be nudged academically. However, they both know that I’m the authority and they need to say thank you for most of the things they receive from me - a ride to an event, a meal out, help with an activity or homework, etc. I’m always shocked when their friends jump out of a car without even a ‘good-bye’, never mind a thank you.
I attend church – and am sure that there are a range of people within my church with different opinions on what grades are acceptable and what their expectations for their kids’ education plans will be. It just seems like the two items “church going” and “high academic expectations” have nothing to do with each other. It isn’t a micro-aggression, or a trigger – it is genuine puzzlement about why the two would be related.
I just did some online research because I was curious. And apparently in the US in the last year I found data for (Gallup, 2010), 44% of people attend church regularly, and it is consistent at 44% across college graduates, post-graduates, and high school or less educated adults. The only dip was in the “some college” group at 41%. So at least the education level of the parents is pretty consistent. Given that income generally goes up with more education, I just don’t see a basis for your casual assertion.
You will find that people follow up out here on statements that don’t seem to make sense. It isn’t triggering – it is fact checking. We are, after all, (mostly) a community that cares about education and facts.
You might be surprised that the Obamas required their kids to participate in two sports, one a group or team sport like basketball or soccer, and one a more individual one like golf or tennis. Michelle Obama talked about this on several talk shows and sort of implied that the kids didn’t always like it but the parents thought the sports were important and being on a team was important.
Good for the Obamas. They seem to have raised bright, well-mannered young ladies who have handled the scrutiny very well. All the same, I personally can’t get on board with “requiring” participation in 2 athletic teams. But that’s me.
Regarding anyone (including the Obamas) requiring sports; that’s all well and good until you reach a battle field with one of your kids. Neither of mine had any interest whatsoever after about 9th grade. I personally don’t believe in creating a battle where one is not necessary, especially if the kid has other interests and is not simply looking for time to spend doing video games.
It hadn’t occurred to me to require thank yous for these things though I do get them…possibly they have watched me and other adults in their lives say thank you to others for these things so didn’t need an authority to require it of them.
The sanctimony here is a bit much. My H and I are friendly with a couple whom we befriended in college. Like us, they “did all the right things” - focused on academics, ran a loving household, gave them opportunities for ECs, modeled hard work and discipline, etc. Our families used to vacaction together at their family’s summer cottage. We were indistinguishable in terms of how we were raising our kids.
I wound up with 2 kids who punched all the right cards - top 20 schools, got good grades, never in any trouble with the law, had jobs at graduation, largely self-supporting and launched, etc. One of their kids also attended a top 20, but both kids have various mental issues and have made some poor (and largely permanent) decisions. I could sit here and pat myself on the back for my Clearly Superior Parenting, or I could also choose humility and There But For the Grace of God Go I. I choose the latter.
“Assuming healthy and no LD, there is no such thing as a “hard working” C student. At an average school, non-honors students get B’s for showing up.”
That’s just completely untrue. There most certainly are hard working C students. There are a lot of hard working average-intellect people out there, who perform a lot of our collective dirty work. I hope you are more respectful to them in person.
Ah. But you are confounding the grade with the amount of effort. Not everyone can be a straight A student. But if they try their reasonable best and are good, kind, helpful people - that’s worth an awful lot in this world.
“Instead you have mostly hands off parents who leave everything up to the school, and parents obsessed with sports.”
So why did you require your kids to be on an athletic team, then? Certainly one can get healthy physical activity from biking, swimming, hiking, individual jogging (not part of a team), etc. Why did it have to be part of an “official” sport?
I don’t think I’d have “required” sports for my D, but I definitely nudged her into participation as a way to get physical activity. And as she enters 9th grade this year, more than ever I want her making the decisions as to which activities to pursue. But that second part of the statement is key, if she chooses to give up sports I’ll be strongly recommending her to pick another interest to pursue. She does especially poorly with idle time.
I totally get saying to your kid - you have to do SOMETHING other than academics. I guess I’m not on board with the micromanaging of what that specifically is - music, drama, newspaper, a sport, political work, volunteer work, etc. But maybe I’m a hypocrite since I did require religious school til age 13. (One continued, one didn’t.) I felt the same way when they were in college - they needed to do something, but what that thing was was up to them.
I know how I wouldn’t like it if someone forced me to play an instrument or a sport.
@Pizzagirl ding-ding-ding! I can’t agree more. You’ve exactly articulated in your last sentence how I feel about micromanaging what kids do. Part of our job as parents is to let them grow into adults. And adults don’t take well to being told they must play on the company volleyball team, or must play the piano one hour a day… I feel that the “letting go” through the teen-age years is one of the most difficult, but ultimately most important parts of parenting. It’s a fine line, and I imagine we all draw that line somewhat differently.
I agree that it’s important to do something other than academics, although being required isn’t much fun… I was required to take piano lessons and practice as a younger child. I hated it (to be exact, the music made me sad). Fortunately, my parents let me stop around 8.
I now (as a rising HS sophomore) am involved in girl choir and I frequently practice piano. Athletics and music shouldn’t be required (for the most part) though, IMO. (As others have noted, you needn’t play a team sport to stay healthy.)
I expected my kid to be healthy and coordinated. But he’s a slacker and has Crohn’s disease and dysgraphia. I also expected him to go to college and graduate but instead he got a full time job. I hold him to a higher standard and he does whatever he wants. My expectations didn’t seem to have much influence. Now I just expect him for dinner occasionally.