Stopped by middle school due to commute time and other issues.
Didn’t participate actively in athletics from middle school through HS unless you count the frequent schoolyard defensive fights against middle school bullies looking to attack me and my friends back in the NYC of the late '80s/early '90s.
In college and after, I have picked up taking long hikes(5+ miles each way), soccer, and volleyball on occasion.
I’m grateful I wasn’t forced into athletics or learning an instrument. One factor other than lack of family finances in childhood was mom remembering how she was forced to learn the piano as an adolescent in the early '50s and grew to hate it so much she didn’t want me to go through the same. I also know many upper/upper-middle class HS classmates who were forced by parents to learn the piano or other classical musical instruments and grew to hate them so much I would be wary of leaving them in a room with such instruments unsupervised unless one doesn’t care those instruments may get Pete Townsended:
Interestingly, I have started learning to play the electric guitar of my own volition a few years back.
Despite extremely slow progress due to lack of practice time and other responsibilities, it’s an activity I can look forward to with some enjoyment…not another form of drudgery mandated from TPTB.
Just remember, OP, you have no idea what goes on behind closed doors. You don’t know if the kid has a disability, you don’t know if there are emotional issues you aren’t aware of, you don’t know if they are working with tutors. You know none of this, and most people aren’t exactly going to open up about these very private things when they are just having a casual get-together with you. It’s like speculating on the state of someone else’s finances or someone else’s marriage. You just really don’t know, unless you’re in the midst of it.
I think the OP had a point, which may have been lost due to a poor choice of words.
Parental expectations matter. They should not be unrealistic or unreasonable or unattainable, but if you expect little or nothing from your kids when it comes to their academic performance that is often exactly what you will get. If parents are content with report cards full of C’s, many kids will figure out what they need to do to get them and settle for them.
I have family members whose kids have dealt with unbelievable things- chronic illness, autoimmune disorders, genetic malady. The kids look fine to the outside world, but periodically the family’s life becomes doctor’s visits, infusions, treatments, and then wait for remission- to begin the cycle all over again.
They don’t discuss it with folks outside the family (it’s nobody’s business but their own- that’s their wish and so we respect it, even though they’d likely get support from their neighbors and friends if people knew. But seeing the judgey attitudes on this thread- maybe not.)
The kids get C’s. Maybe a B. Sometimes a D. In the grand scheme of things, HS grades are not important to this family even though at a macro level they care deeply about education. But something has to give- and right now- and maybe forever- it’s grades.
It is very un-Christian (not to mention un-everything else) to judge someone else’s situation without knowing the facts. Maybe the kid is a slacker and the parents don’t care. Maybe the kid has MS and the parents are beyond proud of how well he copes with his exacerbations and daily shots. Maybe the kid had lymphoma and is now in remission and the parents are beyond proud that he makes it through the week without feeling sorry for himself, and without beating himself up that he missed a year of school so he’s now in remedial everything. And maybe when they all head off to church they are so grateful to have their family intact that they are charitable towards the other “not like us” folks in the congregation- knowing that you cannot judge someone else until you’ve walked a mile in their shoes.
A friend of mine had a kidney transplant ten years ago. When some friends told her they were forming a prayer circle to pray for her recovery post-op, she asked them not to. But to pray for the family of the man who died- and whose organs were being harvested and used to keep other people alive.
Now that’s a Christian in my book. (and I am not of that faith).
To echo what blossom said, I have been fighting my own autoimmune diseases but I have been very open about this fight. Because of my openness, others have come forward to tell me about their own struggles- people I never would have guessed were battling illnesses. That is why they call them “invisible” illnesses.
I still have not finished my first year of my PhD program. Classes ended over a month ago but I can’t finish the final assignments because I sleep something like 15 hours a day and am still exhausted when I’m awake. I can’t even read the monographs needed to begin the papers. If my diseases had flared for the first time when I was in high school instead of college, I would probably still be in the same boat- trying to just get through the work rather than excelling at it. And if I was in high school, I likely would not have been as open as I am now because I was far more private back then.
Maybe it’s because I have several cousins with various disabilities, but I’ve never presumed to know what someone’s “full potential” is. For one of my cousins (about 10 years old now), just learning one syllable words has been an ENORMOUS victory. For another, getting a PhD was pretty much expected (not that it’s not an extraordinary accomplishment). And I have family everywhere in between, but from the outside you wouldn’t be able to “know” what disabilities or struggles they each have.
I agree with you. I am tired of friends / relatives who aim low. “Community college is a great option, we hope he/she will go there. There is absolutely no need to go to a 4-year college. What a waste of money!”
First, I was surprised. Then I tried to argue, that community college is great, but there are other options available (in terms of funding, as well). Hopeless.
Second, I noticed, that many families are insecure. They say that they don’t want their kids to go to go “up”, because they don’t really believe that their kids can do it.
Third, it often depends of the parental level of education.
@cobrat I had to laugh because my experience is just the opposite. My sister and I had to take piano lessons. My brother did not. He was very stubborn and my parents just didn’t want to battle him with practice. As an adult, he is very upset with them for not forcing the issue as he saw many times when that basic music knowledge would have worked to his advantage. As an adult, he started restoring pianos (I’ve got one in my living room!) and is insisting his own children take lessons. Personally, I don’t have the ear to be good (competent?), but I don’t regret being made to take those lessons.
This is the exact response I give to parents who I believe are just bragging…even if it is far from the truth. >
I’ve noticed it many times. I think some folks are afraid to disclose their real intensions.
Maybe they are superstitious?
Maybe they are afraid of a potential competition and don’t want to disclose “important” information?
Maybe they are afraid that their kids would be labeled “losers” if they are not accepted to their top choice? It is easier for some people to say “we would never apply to Stanford” than to admit that they applied and were rejected.
This is an interesting thread. People differ in how conventional they are and how authoritarian they are. These are pretty immutable characteristics. OP and her friends probably differ along those two dimensions in ways she didn’t expect. People often wrongly assume others share their values, and we all judge those who don’t. I’m personally very much in agreement with @lostaccount’s posts on this thread with their more unconventional and permissive views.
What a fascinating thread. Apparently slackers aren’t slackers, we have to give them the benefit of the doubt, they’re likely suffering from a “condition”. No wonder so many millenials are professional victims and perpetual adolescents.
I would never judge a kid, who gets a C. It is OK, IMHO. However, I don’t understand kids, who (in 9th grade!) know that they are going to a community college, because it is the best option for them. Common! Dream big!
Good lord, @OldFashioned1. I’m one of those slacker parents and you can just look at my profile to decide whether or not I’ve failed at my parental duties. I have paid attention to my kids’ needs and aspirations.
The same goes for adults. Somehow, I respect people who try new venues, make startups, fail, try again. It is pretty boring to stay around folks who know that they would never become rich and count days until retirement
I think this all relates to what a dear friend of mine shared recently. Tenured at research U, said at the end of every semester he now receives dozens of depression and anxiety emails asking for extensions and various accommodations. Everyone is inflicted with debilitating depression and anxiety these days. It’s not laziness or going to too many parties or playing too many video games or binging on Netflix … no, it’s a “condition”.
Oldfashioned, my body literally attacks me every day of my life. Do you understand what it’s like to be in such excruciating pain that you can’t get out of bed? What it’s like to not even be able to think because you are so fatigued? What it’s like to take 20+ pills a day (plus infusion treatments) that disfigure your body and you have no idea whether or not they’re even going to work? To not be able to go outside because your body is allergic to the sun or go to places with crowds because your immune system is so suppressed?
Give me a break on blowing off someone else’s “conditions” that you’ve never lived through. Because even if you’ve lived through an autoimmune disease (doubtful, but what I described above), you haven’t lived through everyone else’s “conditions.”
I’m done. This thread starting off amusing, but now it’s insulting.
Of course, some people whose performance seems inferior to what they might have achieved are slackers. But it’s only one of many possible explanations. And they don’t owe you an explanation at all.
If you looked at my 6’-1" tall son in high school, you would have though he was the picture of health. Physically, he was fine. But every night he had horrific nightmares and tactile hallucinations. He was diagnosed with severe bipolar disorder (this, after his older brother had been diagnosed with schizophrenia). He got very little sleep and couldn’t get up until later in the day. His HS was supportive, but we still wondered if he would graduate. When it turned out he would, the school told us he couldn’t participate in graduation ceremonies because he hadn’t been taking a full load.
So yes, my expectations for him decreased. Forward two years, and he has completed his first semester of college with three As and one B+!! He participated in a Christian volunteer program that turned him around. He dropped 100 pounds and found his passion in life - helping Syrian refugees. He will be attending the American University of Beirut beginning this fall.
If we had pounded him and told him what we EXPECTED of him, he would have closed down and probably ended up on the streets. His wise psychiatrist told us to “say nothing, do nothing,” and that was the best advice IN THIS CASE. So sometimes being "slacker parents’ really is the best course to take.
