With my kids done with college searches, this year I sat down with some friends to give them some advice as they got started with their own. They listened to some of what I said but still ended up with some unhappiness because of expectations they had.
I told everyone that they had to start out knowing what they could afford and that it wasn’t worth applying places that would not be affordable. For need based aid schools, they needed to run the net price calculators.
But one ended up with some great acceptances that it looks like they can’t afford. The ran the NPCs but still applied. And so one of the parents said to me, “Maybe we shouldn’t have gone down this road.” They could have stuck with the affordable state school, where the kid got an excellent merit package.
I told everyone not to get too focused on a single school.
But one ended up with phenomenal acceptances, including three Ivies and Stanford, but the kid is incredibly unhappy because one top school, who this student really loved, sent a rejection. This student is having trouble considering the wonderful options because of the pain of the disappointment.
This makes me feel like I might as well keep my mouth shut rather than share advice with other parents. They did benefit from some advice on constructing lists to apply to and on essays and how to write up the list of activities, but on these big things, what I said didn’t register.
The details differ, but I had a similar experience this year. I’m frustrated on my friends’ behalf but I did the best I could to convey the reality of college admissions and financing. You did, too!
We are all the same when it comes to taking advice, aren’t we? Your advice is excellent. I have four kids and getting ready for #3 to apply next year. It is very hard to keep expectations realistic. Parents who care about expectations want it all as much as the kids who have worked hard. In our case my son has taken every AP class available but can sometimes only pull out the “B”. Hate to say it but there are so many 4.5 kids on this planet, we are trying to adjust our list now to avoid some disappointment. He wouldn’t give up that challenge for anything. A college will be lucky to get him and he will do well. BUT—the GPA —
Oldest son was devastated by many rejections. 3.9 weighted GPA and 1870 SAT didn’t compete with the 4.3/4/5 kids or the 2000+ SAT scores. But he landed in a gREAT place and it is cheaper than all those that rejected him. He will do a double major, all his 10 AP classes and dual enroll language became credits and in one year he has Jr status. Respected state school, as well. Now we wonder why it wasn’t our first choice AND I fear they are getting so many more apps each year that my younger son (with a very similar profile) will not be able to count on admittance there, either.
The Hand of God, we say, gets a vote.
It is so difficult to predict what any of the colleges will do. We are in California…so it is probably Kookier for us!!
You were kind to help with your experience and advice. I find that people don’t often take advice well from friends, especially on something as sensitive a topic as college admissions for their children. So, if friends ask, I share information and our experience. If they don’t ask, I don’t tell. It’s up to them how they apply what they hear and many only hear things quite selectively.
I’m sorry to say this, but the kid who was admitted to three Ivies and Stanford but is still unhappy sounds like he or she needs a lesson in gratitude.
People hear what they want to hear. I, too, have offered what I perceive to be sound advice to friends, particuarly regarding costs. Too much ostriching and magical thinking…
I rarely advise people I know about colleges. The few times I did, it did not go well. The problem is that if they disregard your advice, and it still works out, they then feel that you don’t know what you are talking about. And, fortunately, it often does end well. It’s really just the odds that one can lay out, not certainties most of the time. And if doesn’t work out, it can strain the relationship.
My son’s close friend is hurting terribly as is the mom. Didn’t want to do a thing advised, and truthfully, even so, I’d thought there was a chance it would work out as the kid is really up there in qualifications. Just wanted some more insurance in the pictures and a few things to up the chances. It didn’t pan out and though they were sure they would not care that much, that they got the odds, the fact of the matter is that it hurts a lot. I kept at a distance on this, so not at all involved, but I know that I could have upped the odds for them had they done some things I’d lightly suggested.
My worst failure was with an old friend who was so under financial siege that she could not afford the disaster that ensued with taking out cosigned loans with her daughter. It’s a total debacle and I hurt when I think about it. I don’t know any way out for them.
You are all correct about advice. I think this forum is extremely helpful for advice. BUT parents that know each other might tend to feel competitive, even good friends who ordinarily cheer for each other’s kids. Anonymous advice cannot have any perceived edge to it.
BUT when other parents here on this forum “talk up” affordable schools or alternatives you never considered, it is really great. Our list is now filled with suggestions from a few nice parents on this forum who knew of schools we really hadn’t looked at in states we hadn’t considered–!!
Those with burning questions will hunt you down and usually only if they see their child in a similar boat as theirs. If you’re in a different financial situation, if they suspect your child is higher or lower stats range, if your kid is at a public university and they want private, then whatever you say doesn’t apply.
There are some things you just have to experience as well. It’s near impossible to say “don’t lose your heart to one school” and not have it happen either on the parent side or kid side. Hope happens (thank goodness) and frankly, it’s just as awful for a kid who applied only to low-level, poor-fit schools because they assumed they’d be the only affordable options or parents feared what rejection would do to their kid.
The only thing I actively volunteer is info on the WUE program because it’s a big secret in our area for some reason. No one ever knows about it. Otherwise, I don’t say anything unless they are actively leading the conversation. Even then, I don’t really expect they’ll take it all… I mean, we never really know the full situation of our friends just as I don’t expect we are getting full truths from members of these types of boards. A level of privacy can be necessary even in friendships and so advice that helped you won’t always be as relevant to them as you’d assume.
It’s important to help child manage the enormous social pressure of comparing college admissions outcomes. I keep telling DS that I appreciate there’s bragging rights at school for 2 months. But once everyone splits up and scatters all over the country, ensconced in their own college, they stop thinking about their HS classmates and focus entirely on their own opportunity.
I’ve been in higher Ed 20+ years, but I I know nothing. There’s always another “friend” with better advice, probably because it’ s’more in line with what the listener wants to hear. I do a lot of smiling and nodding, both during the process and after the fin aid offers have come in.
Momfromme, it is nice of you to accept to help friends. The mixed reactions come with the territory. You can’t worry about limiting the disappointments. Over time, my own plan has been to be blunt and firm when offering advice. I have warned people it only works if they accept to follow and not second guess endlessly. If asked to reply to an essay (re)edited by a teacher or friend, I stop. I usually tell applicants … Great, this is where listening to everyone at your school stops. Their job is to send the papers on time and that is all that matters. Forget ALL the rest at once. Do NOT talk to your friends and do not listen to them. Essays are almost always entirely wrong.
The hardest cases have been my immediate family and the results followed the path they decided to embark on. A path filled with clueless advice from their friends in the city they lived and their GC.
All in all, think about all the good you have done, but you can’t save everyone from their own weaknesses. Issues of financial aid and realism in dealing with expenses are tough. The worst is dealing with unrealistic expectations of aid and scholarship. One reason is the misrepresentation of successful applicants about need based aid. The “she got a full ride at Harvard” or “she was accepted early at Yale and Harvard” are hard to dismiss as pure lies when the ears like to believe the stories.
I hear you about family! In that case, I found that family members had different views about taking on debt for the parents and kids. I am relatively debt averse and would not want to be burdened or have my kids burdened with the level of debt they find acceptable.
If a student applies to a variety of colleges, it is more likely to work out well in the end. The worst stories occur when a college list is skewed - particularly when it is skewed towards colleges that end up having a high net price or that are very competitive in admissions. You don’t want only one safety - you want to make sure you have a choice at the end of the process. Also, the safeties are more likely to provide an early admissions decision, which greatly reduces the stress of the process.
Phrase every bit of “advice” with: “In our situation” or “with our son/daughter”. This is my plan, to emphasize what we did in our particular situation, and how things worked out or went tits up instead. My listeners can take what they like from it, and it doesn’t appear as if I’m trying to be the Oracle of Delphi.
I’m happy about how my family advice worked out. Brother called me last year saying they wanted to come out and visit us so that nephew could look at Stanford, Berkeley and Caltech. I thought to myself, nephew is a great kid with high stats, but he might as well set fire to a hundred dollar bill instead of applying to Stanford. I said, why don’t you visit Santa Clara University while you’re here?
Applications, for this kid: MIT, Stanford, Harvey Mudd, Pomona, Cornell, CMU, Santa Clara, Marquette. Acceptances: Santa Clara, Marquette. WL: CMU. They didn’t listen to my suggestions about applying to more non-lottery schools, but at least nephew has two solid acceptances.
I think the best advice one can give is to send them here- I found CC on my own at the time and have found it still interesting reading years after we needed it. Some people listen too much to the advice of others and some not nearly enough!
Sometimes I feel ashamed that my relatives made such bad decisions about college admissions. I’m so happy that I have company. It’s hard when you know they are making such bad decisions and are not listening to any advice, not just from me. Then afterwards I have to listen to revisionist history. How is was the GC fault or the reason the 30 ACT/not 4.0 student didn’t get into MIT was because the teachers didn’t send in the references on time.
Or that they thought their darling was going to get into Georgetown because a famous alum wrote a recommendation. Or that they visited schools that meet need but didn’t believe the EFC. magical thinking in the extreme. Then they couldn’t understand why the child was unhappy with their choices.
I learned a lot from the most recent college search but I take away two general points that I have offered my friends because I don’t think it was as common during my college application days - apply Early Action if at all possible (as one CC user mentioned, it takes away so much stress to get an early acceptance) and don’t assume you can’t afford nonelite - but worthwhile - private colleges; I had no idea myself until we were involved how much of a “discount” one can get - not a free education but not 60,000/year either.
@MomofM I agree that students/parents shouldn’t assume they can’t afford privates (elite or not). My kids got some great offers from private colleges – in some cases making them significantly cheaper than the public schools (especially if you factor in years to graduate 4 years vs. 6 at some public schools!). The only way you know for sure is to apply and be accepted. The NPC helps to give you an idea, but it’s not perfect. I wouldn’t discourage people from applying just because it seems expensive, but I would make sure they at least used the NPC for a rough idea and that they are prepared with more financially feasible backup schools (schools where you are not counting on FA need based or merit). But really, you don’t know what you might get in FA (and in particular in merit scholarships!).