<p>I am currently studying in a small CC. Last month, we talked about colleges in my English class. I accidentally mentioned that the schoolwork in Harvard is way more complicated than the schoolwork in a CC. So a C student in Harvard is not necessarily worse than an A student in a CC. I thought it was obvious but all my classmates as well as my instructor thought I was wrong. They said the school work in Harvard is as hard as the schoolwork we have.
What do you think?</p>
<p>Depends what you're doing...</p>
<p>It very much depends on the professor. I'm at a well-funded californian cc, and we have no lack of PhD's that have taught or are teaching at more "prestigeous" universities. Your peers may be less ambitious, etc, and there is certainly more opportunities to drop in and chat with the professor about problems you're having, but as long as you stick to the right instructors (i.e. those who don't change their pace or course load and layout just to adapt to a perceived lack of rigour at cc's), you're basically getting the same quality of education.</p>
<p>Now, as for grades being handed out easier, I can't help you with that. Again - depends on the teacher. I've heard of whole classes being failed around here for doing work at the level they're used to having more lenient instructors settling for.</p>
<p>as far as most of the people are concerned on this board, the consensus is ''depends on what you're doing and what you're taking'', yeah, but you will encounter a minority (read:nspeds and other failed ex-debaters) who will impress upon you this: CC students are trash compared to crimson and the ivy like. pick your poison. </p>
<p>of course, outside of it being hella difficult, i guess the quality of the work ethic of students and the intelligence level of kids at ivies are higher. that's undeniable. but hey, whatever.</p>
<p>Overall, Harvard classes will require students to memorize more, to understand more, to study more, and so on. </p>
<p>BUT...
If we could limit our discussion to solely lower division, it's probably the same **relative **difficulty. </p>
<p>Professors tend to grade on a curve, even though it may not be officially announced. If in one Harvard class the students have an average of 1450/1600 SAT's, and the students have an average of 1000/1600, it would be unreasonable to treat both the same. Both groups of students will be challenged accordingly, and thus their "felt" difficulty should be similar.</p>
<p>From the limited lectures notes I have seen, Harvard IS more complicated. HYPS lectures have many "special topics" that simply...don't exist at CC!</p>
<p>walnut, you'd be surprised how specialized and challenging classes some cc's offer. Of course, CC will never be Ivy, but this doesn't mean there aren't quite comparable - even if isolated - classes, instructors and students at the former.</p>
<p>Really? Like what? (I'm not challenging you, rather curious)</p>
<p>I've only been to one CC...so my overall view is limited.</p>
<p>Well, I can't offer any particular course without giving too much away about myself, but check some on-line schedule of classes for Californian cc's out for yourself (or cc's in your own state, although I can't vouch for those).</p>
<p>My school offers classes such as philosophy of science, existentialist phenomenology, asian literature during the Xth century and so on. I love my professors and have had more than one kid from Berkeley and UCLA take a class or two for economical reasons without feeling the material was dumbed-down whatsoever.</p>
<p>Things aren't always as clear-cut into the socially sanctioned cake-bites we would like them to be.</p>
<p>wow..which CC do you go to? I can't wait till I transfer so I can actually take these special topic classes.</p>
<p>I'm only familiar with the CC classes around the Los Angeles area, but i'll check out other colleges too.</p>
<p>I think it depends on so many factors -- especially the course you're taking and who's teaching it. I think there would be a world of difference between a composition course taught by a tenured Harvard professor with a Ph.D and someone who just got his or her master's at a CC. At the same time, I also think things like certain math courses, where you have to learn the same concepts no matter where you are, might not vary so much, especially because not all CC professors are so green. It totally depends on the CC, too; I don't go to my county's CC because when I attended their classes in high school, I didn't like a single one of the professors I had. I take classes in the next county over and the CC I go to has way better resources than the one closer to my house. There's also the fact that, in some courses more than others, the people in your class add to the learning experience, and I think you're going to have more people in a CC class who aren't as focused :/</p>
<p>You can get a Masters at a CC?</p>
<p>Harder? Shrug. Million times more work? Yes. More competitive? Yes. What the hell else is there?</p>
<p>if community colleges are so incredible, why don't you stay there instead of worrying about being accepted by elite colleges which you view as a threat?</p>
<p>ignorant much? anyways to answer the question for me, i don't really know yet because i don't have anything to compare to, and i won't be attending an ivy when i do transfer</p>
<p>I would believe that courses at Harvard would be much more difficult than those taught at a CC. Professors at Harvard are much better prepared that those at a Community College and your classmates are smarter too, so class discussions will be much deeper and you will learn much more. Since you will learn more, then you will be tested accordingly harder, and you will be expected to know things to more depth that someone in a CC.</p>
<p>But idk, I've never been to Harvard. Would anyone care to assess the validity of my thoughts?</p>
<p>I'd bet any amount that a random C student at Harvard will still school a random 4.0 CC student at any grad school entrance test. </p>
<p>I've never been to Harvard so I can't really say.</p>
<p>i don't think you guys realize how difficult harvard is. i'm not sure you realize how intelligent people are harvard are. i took an intro to macroeconomics class at a community college. then i moved to cambridge MA and a few of my friends at harvard were taking an intro to macro class. i sat in for a few lectures and it was basically like an entirely different class. in order to be in the most basic econ class you had to have taken 2 semesters of calculus. i won't even bother elaborating because i really don't think anybody is going to be understand what i'm saying without dropping by and listening to some harvard lectures.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
sat in for a few lectures and it was basically like an entirely different class. in order to be in the most basic econ class you had to have taken 2 semesters of calculus.
[/QUOTE]
If the topics and prerequisites were different, it probably WAS an entirely different class. A comparison doesn't really make sense here, since top universities don't really offer the same introductory classes CCs do. It's like if you compare Prealgebra at a CC to Calculus at MIT and say "I took the easiest math class at my CC and the easiest one at MIT, MIT was harder."</p>
<p>However, the topic is about comparing EQUIVALENT classes which cover the same topics.</p>
<p>I think people overestimate Harvard students, while in certain CC's, others underestimate CC students.</p>
<p>There are some CC students just as talented as Harvard ones. The biggest difference in the two is the amount of talent that gets packed in one room. Harvard has some of the smartest kids in the world, and there's a high concentration of them, which results in discussions. At a CC, that might not be possible.</p>
<p>cowboy, because I realize that, however absurd I find the educational system to be, the overwhelming majority does not share my sentiments. Putting food on the table and getting a job I might even enjoy depends on being able to show future employers that diploma.</p>
<p>As for staying at community college - if it were possible to import just a drop of the intense diversity of a cc into an acknowledged college, I'd give my left foot and pinkie for it. Who gets to define what valid "learning" looks like? What proper knowledge is? </p>
<p>Ivy schools pack far more intellectual clout, and I grant you this willingly. Nonetheless, academia is and always has been a hermetically sealed institution intimately bound up with power. It has, throughout modern society, been absolutely vital in sanctifying and reproducing paradigms which serve the elite class of society. Looking up to HAHHVAHHD as the absolute good, the highest intellectual authority without a hint of critical thinking or acknowledgment of the marginalized forms of knowledge and experience in abundance at community colleges, I frankly find -- stupid.</p>
<p>I will miss my cc when I transfer. I will miss not being part of a system that packs kids the exact same age from pretty much the exact same socioeconomic background into one totalizing institution that makes sure all they learn comes from top and down. God forbid we'd share a classroom with people older, poorer, much different from us, those not acknowledged by the system -- we might actually learn something NEW, something not yet filtered through the interests of the elite echelons!</p>
<p>The amazing thing is, those same people who consider community college beneath them buy into the educational system wholesale. It's laughable.</p>