I know to each-each own and I know some kids who have done engineering in 5 years with reason of: maintaining high GPA. So, what is the rush to do it 4 years? especially, if you have eyes in doing MBA after working three years. The MBA admission office (top schools) will look at your High GPA, GMAT, progressing career, and letter of recommendation (LOR) from your employer, etc.
So, if you are rushing to get engineering degree and only are able to get so-so GPA like 3.2 or below then chances to go to top MBA is marginal. You probably will get lucky to get accepted at those top MBA with your so-so GPA but have to study hard to get high GMAT scores to compensate the low GPA.
Factoring the high cost of schooling with student loans, etc, I don’t blame you to do it four years. However, if you want to advance your career into management by doing MBA later on, make sure that you don’t sacrifice your GPA. If money is ok to spread it five years then it is ok to do so.
I don’t get this thread. You explained yourself why most people want to get out in four years. And most of your grads really aren’t aiming at an MBA in the short term, so that doesn’t even factor in.
My best guess is you want to explain why you plan to take a fifth year yourself?
I am asking question regarding why you need to be in a hurry to finish engineering and the end result is only with 3.2 or 3.1 GPA (borderline GPA). Such GPA will get you job don’t get me wrong but not high paying job. Especially, if you don’t have REUs, internships, etc, it is difficult in competing for entry level jobs w/wo high paying compensation.
So, I believe if you finish in 5 yrs with high GPA at least 3.5 or 3.6 with one or two REUs and research/internship and you will become more competitive.
There is no laws against finishing engineering in 5 years. If the money is ok, then do it so that you will get better jobs with high paying compensation.
Anyhow, I don’t go to school anymore. My schooling year is over moons ago. My son did the engineering in 5 years NOT 4 years with two degrees (dual degrees) with high GPA and a couple of REUs and internal research, and ended up with high paying job as aerospace engineer in Cali. Nothing is wrong doing engineering in 5 years.
Bottom line is: 4 yrs engineering degree with only meager GPA and not able to get any REUs, internship/research etc, you will not be able to get better job with better compensation. THEN why not trying to finish in 5 years to improve your GPA and get some of those internship/research along the way etc.
Your main argument here seems to be the extra year of school is worth it for the money. IMO, that’s exactly why it is not worth it for most people.
The difference in money between most entry level jobs really isn’t that great. And when you factor in ~60K lost earnings from that extra year of school, and 20K-30K of student debt that will double in a 10 year repayment period, that extra payoff of ~5K or so starting just isn’t worth it.
And graduating in four years doesn’t necessarily mean you have a low GPA. I know plenty of guys on the four year track with 3.7+s. In their case, stalling a fifth year for extra study time and research wouldn’t really benefit them financially.
There’s also lots of other constraints that change on a case-by-case basis, such as scholarships that may be limited to four years, or hitting the maximum on federal loans and being unwilling to take out private loans.
Your son made a decision based on his constraints, and it worked out for him. That’s great to hear. A lot of other people make decisions based on their situations, and it works out for them. I’d advise to anyone looking at engineering to plan for 5 years, because it often does take that long, but I don’t think you can say that a 5 year plan is always the better option.
1 - how many engineering undergrads are truly worrying about acceptance into a top MBA program?
2 - Not many students can afford a 5th year of college. Yes, it is extremely difficult to finish engineering in 4 years, especially if you don’t have any credits going in. But costs are high, and for students on scholarship most scholarships only cover 4 years.
S is an engineering major. He’s going in with a number of AP credits, which will help, but it will strain the budget if he needs to go for a 5th year as his scholarship is for 8 semesters only. We’re doing what we can to plan for it, hoping at most it’s only one extra semester rather than a full year. But acceptance into a top MBA school is certainly not a driver for him or any of the other engineering majors he knows.
Not in our case. My son finished 5 years not 4 years. He did 3+2 programs (dual degree) Tulane physics and Vandy Mechanical Engineering. Money problems? not really. He had scholarships (internal and external) and did REUs and also internal research/internships. He even got money from engineering society in our state. More importantly, Tulane and Vandy gave him lots of money (scholarship) and at the end he was able to travel and zero balance of school debts. The best of it, his entry level paid handsomely aka above average for engineer doing aerospace.
Just like I said: to each, each own. Anyone has to know doing personal financial management even while they are in high school in order to map your success. They have to know where to get any scholarships (internal and external), finding any REUs and internship during summer-time or finding also Co-Op.
Also, as for my son as his career is progressing, he would like to take MBA at one of the top schools. Then again, it will be paid the company. His company even encourages for employees to further their education, paid by the company.
So, like I said, if the money is OK (managed carefully) then don’t just graduate for the sake of getting an engineering diploma but with lousy GPA where you can not get a better job with better compensation. Why does not anyone of you just prolong one year to improve GPA and try getting any REUs or internship or Co-Op?
My post is is just a suggestion for anyone who is doing engineering. You don’t have to rush the school in four years.
ucbalumnus: Well, five years and two degrees with GPA are not bad at all. Better than 4 years for one degree without getting high GPA, don’t you think so?
Also:
KF7LCE said: I’d advise to anyone looking at engineering to plan for 5 years, because it often does take that long.
So, basically if you want a better compensation for entry level jobs, you need to have: high GPA, REUs or internships, LOR (letter of recommendation). If anyone GPAs is lousy since engineering is kind of hard, why don’t they prolong it for 5 yrs to improve the GPA and getting REUs or internships a long the way.
I know also scholarship money is only for 4 years but I know one or two guys that will delay graduation into 5 years and trying to get internships or Co-Ops and at the same time trying also to improve and obtain high GPA.
High GPA in engineering is difficult, you probably know it. And not everyone will get GPA around 3.6 or 3.7 cumulatively. Without such high GPA, it is kind of hard to compete in entry level jobs and with better compensation.
So, I am just giving advises to do unconventional way to get the dream job(s) by prolonging one year and managing your GPA if and if you can manage your school money.
Anyhow, for those of you who don’t know, the REUs money is big. It is not easy to get REUs since the professors who do the research are very picky. But, that is also a source of income while going to college.
KF7LCE: I hear you loud and clear five-nine signal report. But, well, anybody can learn from anybody. Such a big IF is doable. Just learn how to maneuver in school money, making and tuning the correct mapping into 5 years schooling of engineering, you will be able to get high GPA, find a better job with high compensation, etc. Anyone does not need to stretch out for 4 years of engineering schooling:-*
Totally agree with @kf7lce. Not sure what the point of this post is. I would expect most kids majoring in engineering would prefer 5 years to complete the extremely demanding degree. However, the majority of kids are not in a financial position to afford an extra year - and you can’t guarantee well-paying co-ops or internships that fit with the school schedule will be available. Yes, now @tulanefan101 will jump in with “well that wasn’t the case for my son”. Right, which is why we use terms such as “majority” and “most”. A sample set of 1 where a 3-2 program worked does not mean this applies to every student…also, typically 3-2 programs have a high rate of dropping out - and sometimes the scholarship money is only for the 3 years at the first institution, and there’s no guarantee of any money for the 4th and 5th years.
I don’t know that anyone ever said there was something “wrong” with taking 5 years to complete a degree - plenty of people take longer than that for all kinds of reasons. @Tulanefan101, it’s great that this worked for your son. And perhaps will work for some others. But most kids “rush” to complete their degree in 4 years due to fiscal reality, not because they feel stigma if they take an extra year.
No, I don’t think so. First, that is not what we are talking about here. Your son took 5 years in a 3+2 program, meaning he didn’t have any lighter of a load than a student doing a normal 4 year program would. Second, getting a dual degree really doesn’t provide any advantage, so at the end of the day, doing 2 degrees in 5 years with the same course load is not better than 1 degree in 4 years. It really just equals one year of lost wages or, in your own example, one more year until you can think about going after your true goal of an MBA.
Most entry-level jobs are not asking for letters of recommendation, so that is largely irrelevant. Research experience is nice, but is typically trumped by internship experience in industry. Both are good things to have, though. Also, it is very common for students to slow down a bit and take 5 years instead of the more traditional 4. It definitely requires consideration of the financial implications, though.
That’s not an accurate statement. A 3.6 or 3.7 GPA is wonderful and most people won’t have that (for example, I was below that), but you don’t need that high to get good jobs. My undergraduate GPA was in the ballpark of 3.4 and I had several good job offers prior to graduation in the middle of the recession. I ended up turning those down and going to graduate school anyway, eventually got a job at a National Laboratory, and then moved on after that to join the faculty at an R1 university. Moral of the story: you are exaggerating what is required to be successful in engineering.
InigoMontoya said: typically 3-2 programs have a high rate of dropping out - and sometimes the scholarship money is only for the 3 years at the first institution, and there’s no guarantee of any money for the 4th and 5th years.
I would chime in: not really with 3-2 programs at Tulane and Vandy. Both schools give lots of money to their students. Especially Vandy with their No Loans policy. You can check into their websites or ask such question in their respective Forums. There rest of the money, you just have to find it by doing REUs, internships, Co-Ops, or internal scholarships, asking scholarship money from your engineering society in your state, etc. Oh by the way, REUs will give handsome money too although it is kind of difficult to get.
I know it is not easy to get those things but if my son can do it, anyone can do it too. Nothing is impossible.
boneh3ad said: My undergraduate GPA was in the ballpark of 3.4 and I had several good job offers prior to graduation in the middle of the recession.
I would say: you are lucky to get 3.4 as some of my son’ friends only have 3.2 and below. And they have been struggling to find better jobs with better compensation in engineering. While some extend their graduation for one year to improve their GPAs and trying to get internship a long the way. Meanwhile, my son’s GPA for both are: above 3.75 and therefore, he has been offered such a good high paying job.
I have plenty of anecdotal evidence to counter the stories of “your sinks friends.” Of course it’s all anecdotal so it’s not necessarily indicative of a wider trend. For the most part, if you keep your GPA above 3.0 you will be able to find a good job assuming you aren’t a poor interviewer, limiting yourself too much geographically, or graduating into a recession.
You probably are right. However, I don’t know how the HR operate as someone told me that if your engineering degree 3.2 and below, the HR office will not look at your resume for high paying jobs? Regarding stage fright when doing the interview, it depends on the personality. But, it is coachable.
I used to work in a commercial bank as loan officer (lending), worked my way up from credit analyst and we need people with engineering background too to do analysis since we have loans for engineering projects, etc. And when we need to hire the new hires, we have to go through HR Dept. first for screening, completing paper work and administering tests then the file will be forwarded to hiring manager for interview(s). If the hiring manager likes it after the interview (s) then the file will be forwarded to HR Dept where they will do the background check, drug test, issuing offer letter, etc.
To tell the truth, I really don’t know how they do the screening of resume. Also, as I said: someone told me that if your engineering degree 3.2 and below, the HR office will not look at your resume for high paying jobs? that is just the opinion from someone not me.
Anyway, isn’t that Recruitment Office is under HR or separate? they have to be centralized.
So, based on the screening process, I believe that for those entry level paying jobs, the HR Dept will make separate files based on the GPA, etc? Maybe I am wrong, but who knows. All I know some of my son’s friends who have so-so GPA (3.2 and below) have never been called for initial interview for entry level high paying jobs. Someone in HR is doing screening of the GPA? who knows.
I don’t know in any engineering firms, does the hiring manager do the recruitment (posting the job in indeed, monster, etc), do the screening and paperwork, then administer the interview. And do they do the drug test and background check as well?. All is done by the hiring manager and not HR dept?
“Just like I said: to each, each own.” - RIght. For families paying full freight, an extra year can be painful. It often becomes necessary due to course sequence challenges in engineering.
Having said that, we did let DS transfer to a better-fit, more expensive situation (which added an extra year). For him it was the right call, with good outcome. But I’d not extrapolate our experience to say it would be right for others. Every case is different.
Stretching a 4 year program over 5 years lightens the course load. Taking 5 years to do a 3+2 program does not lighten the course load, so the idea that a 3+2 program over 5 years is better for one’s GPA in terms of lightening the course load relative to completing a 4 year program in 4 years does not follow. Here it is numerically, using semester credit hour units:
4 year program = 120 credits = 15 credits for each of 8 semesters (4 years) or 12 credits for each of 10 semesters (5 years)
3+2 program = 150 credits = 15 credits for each of 10 semesters (5 years)
There may be reasons to do a 3+2 program, but it does entail some risks, such as the possibility of non-admission to the “2” school or not getting enough financial aid at the “2” school. Also, if you want to lighten the course load to 12 credits per semester during a 3+2 program, it could end up being a 4+2.5 program (6.5 years).