<p>I am smart no doubt and get exceptional grades. </p>
<p>However, there is a very big difference between a hard working pretty intelligent person and a genius. A genius can take a test without studying and get a really good score, or barely study for the sats and get a really good score.</p>
<p>Do you need to be a genius to get into harvard? or can you just be an intelligent, very hard working person?</p>
<p>Uh…depends on how intelligent you are. If you define “intelligent” as “not quite a genius” and genius as “able to ace a hard test without studying”, then no, being intelligent is sufficient.</p>
<p>Being hard-working and really smart (not necessarily genius smart, as that’s only soo important) AND interesting (in a good way) are how most kids get into Harvard.</p>
<p>I think the OP has a misguided view as to what a genius really is. </p>
<p>Anyone who is intelligent will realize that hard work yields great benefits. Geniuses are intelligent and may have appropriate critical thinking skills to do well enough on an appropriate exam such as the SAT.</p>
<p>Neither intelligent people, or those at the next level of “genius” are endowed at birth with the knowledge of such things as History, grammar, economic concepts, derivation formulas, integration methods, etc. It took them work- hard work- to learn all that. For some, it will take less time than others, but work is done to achieve an end, nonetheless. And geniuses can have the great choice to further work to obtain more than what is necessarily required of them at a given time. If some choose not to pursue more than the required, then they are not lazy, they may lack initiative or care for further information and would rather pursue other interests. </p>
<p>The point I make is that everyone must work hard to achieve what they do in academics- and anything.</p>
<p>Certainly not for Harvard undergrad. American high school curriculum and the SAT/ACT/whatever else are too easy to separate the geniuses from the hardworking and moderately intelligent. A rare few geniuses will have set themselves apart in high school by doing some crazy groundbreaking thing, but the vast majority will be blending in, acing their APs/SATs/etc. Just like everyone else.</p>
<p>How are you defining the word genius? It is a word that many people use without really understanding what it means.</p>
<p>NewYork94 is correct in saying that hard work yields benefits. On the other hand, dekkahs correctly observes that there are some people who just do not need to work very hard to perform at a high level. And there are a lot more of those people at a place like Harvard than there are in any random situation.</p>
<p>As so many adults on this forum have told you many times, there is no sure-fire secret way to get into HYP/etc.</p>
<p>Without using a loaded term like “genius,” let’s think of it this way: Are you the kind of person who sweats for every A, who spends the summer studying for the SAT hoping to get a 2200+, who works really, really hard to stay at the top of his/her class, or are you the kind of person who never has felt all that challenged by high school, so you poured your time and energy into every EC you could find, wrote a novel in your free time, ignored your parents’ pleas to prepare for the SAT yet somehow managed to pull off that 2200+, and, yes, are at the top of your class?</p>
<p>Good work habits and hard work in general will take you far in life regardless of your inborn abilities, and I am not dismissing them at all. But there is a difference between being a good student and being gifted. </p>
<p>So while I would agree with unicameral’s assessment of the standard high-school curriculum and the SAT itself, I think it is important to realize that HYP et al. ARE looking for the students who set themselves apart.</p>
<p>No, but you have to be a professional student. A master of repeating back SAT and other test answers. Certainly not genuises.</p>
<p>Or you can be like me, who took the SAT once after taking book practice tests, scored OK (about 30th percentile of my HYP alma mater) but got into all schools applied based on the strength of my transcript and “story”. </p>
<p>You don’t need to be a genius. You need to show demonstrated academic excellence and drive – and also be able to bring something to campus beyond the fact you’re a superior student.</p>
<p>First of all … The work at Harvard is no more difficult that the rigorous course work at any very good school. In addition, there are very few geniuses (certainly not enough to fill Harvard’s classes year after year). Yes the competition is fierce for admission but we are talking about 17 yr olds. Some geniuses haven’t shown their potential whole others have peaked early and will be admitted with all the embellishments on their application the 4.8 GPA’s and the 2400 SAT. Again, most of these students are not the true geniuses!</p>
<p>nouve55 wrote: “First of all … The work at Harvard is no more difficult that the rigorous course work at any very good school.”</p>
<p>I think that depends on how you define “very good.” I also think that will depend on the strength of the department in question. </p>
<p>My personal data point: Concentration in a department that really, truly was “the best;” visited other “very good” schools in search of a graduate program, had some opportunity to observe general department offerings and compare syllabi/workloads. I noted a steep drop-off in workload and expectations when looking at schools that were not in the very highest tier (top five, maybe top ten). There was a very real difference.</p>
<p>And, again, I think we need to be wary of the use of the word “genius.” True geniuses are rare, and not everyone at HYPet al. is a genius. Not all geniuses are going to be motivated to achieve for the sake of earning grades or test scores, either.</p>
<p>But I think people need to keep in mind that hard work alone is not enough. I see posts on here sometimes from students who think that by sheer force of will they can turn themselves into “Harvard material” (or Princeton, or Yale, or whatever). Look: Putting hundreds of hours into SAT prep and taking the exam five times to reach some imagined magical benchmark is not what it takes. You do need to have a certain fundamental amount of intelligence and ability. And there are many people at Harvard who very much are geniuses. I could name a dozen I knew off the top of my head.</p>
<p>Ridethewave is correct. You do need some level of intelligence (that is outside your own control often times) in order to be a “competitive” applicant. </p>
<p>I have classmates who work much harder than I do, but many of them still can’t muster the right grades to be HYP material, and I got accepted to H early doing less work.</p>
<p>Well, based off your posts, I have a question… would
I fit in at harvard?</p>
<p>First SAT 2110, not much studying, probably gonna get 2250-2300 2nd time. Top 5% of class, #9/400</p>
<p>My intelligence comes in my creativeness which has led me to some one of a kind extra curriculars. Like there are unprecedented types of e’c’s. I try hard in school, study a lot, but I don’t find school difficult. I can get 100’s on certain tests without studying more than 5 minutes. I can memorize a list of terms very quickly. </p>
<p>But at the same time, I can’t do well on a math test if I don’t do my homework. Same with physics. I am a really good debater. In things like math league though, I don’t usually do that well.</p>
<p>Would I fit in?</p>
<p>You sound like a me. :/</p>
<p>But nothing you’ve told us explains how you’d fit in at Harvard. But, sure, with those stats you’re probably not too dumb for Harvard.</p>
<p>But can you get in? Who knows?</p>
<p>Harvard doesn’t primarily look for intelligence. They primarily look for people who will succeed in an academic setting. The avenue by which you get there is up to you, I think, but I doubt there are many Harvard admits who don’t have both good deal of both intelligence and a strong work ethic.</p>
<p>I agree with what everyone’s already said, but I thought I had a little something to add. During my interview last november, my interviewer asked me if I was a genius or just a very good student. I was a little taken back by the question, and I answered truthfully by saying that I wasn’t a genius, just hard-working. That seemed to be a good answer because I got in. Don’t worry about not being a genius, you still have a chance.</p>
<p>@Amaskedstudent: good answer since you never want to be described as " he’s a genius just ask him "! Always allow others to refer to you as genius never yourself regardless if you really are a genius!</p>
<p>Yeah…that’s the genius thing to do.</p>
<p>I took a course there, there were some “genius” level IQ people but for the most part people were just very intelligent and VERY focused on the material. The top students at any top university would fit right into Harvard I thought, it wasn’t as though the students were on another plane of thought or anything (well most of them).</p>
<p>Is there a difference between being an intelligent, extremely hardworking person and being a genius? </p>
<p>I’m sure Evan O’Dorney had to put very very little effort into acing the math and science courses at his high school. But is that because he is a genius, or because he put in thousands and thousands of hours into studying theoretical math from a very young age?</p>
<p>Imagining an impermeable barrier between the geniuses and the mere mortals is demoralizing and obscures the real issue: if you want to be good, at anything, just do it.</p>
<p>Illicit,</p>
<p>That is exactly what I meant to say :)</p>
<p>Evan was homeschooled. He took courses at the local university from a young age. He is very gifted – yes. But is everyone at Harvard Evan? No, very very few are.</p>