<p>Don't overlook the SAT Subject Tests (formerly known as SAT IIs).</p>
<p>Many of the elite colleges require students to take two of them. A few require three. Some of the schools specify that students applying to certain programs must take specific tests. For example, at Cornell, students applying to the College of Arts and Sciences can choose any two SAT Subject Tests, but those applying to the College of Engineering must submit either Physics or Chemistry and a Math test.</p>
<p>Since your son is a junior, he should be planning which SAT Subject Tests to take right now. The last day to register for the May SAT Subject Tests without paying a late fee is today. Or he might prefer to register for the June tests. If your son is taking precalculus now and will take calculus in his senior year, this spring is the right time to take Math Level II. If he's taking AP U.S. History right now, the SAT U.S. History subject test would also be a good choice. I will let other people advise you on science tests since I don't know much about those.</p>
<p>800s on SAT Subject Tests are not essential, but good scores are highly desirable. My daughter got into Cornell Early Decision with no 800s on Subject Tests, but the scores she did have (790/790/760) were very respectable.</p>
<p>It's pretty obvious he has the stats for the Ivy League. All you can do now is sit back and let them do their job. Honestly, it's just a gamble.</p>
<p>Cheers is the only one who brought up another important question - financial. </p>
<p>Do you need merit money? Do you need to pay for med school too? If the answer is yes to those, be sure to research some excellent schools where your son has a shot at getting good merit money. (It won't be an Ivy.)</p>
<p>(Get your information on merit money from a reliable source - not just on CC. Look at CollegeBoard.com or buy the US News Premium college edition. Both show what schools report that they give out for merit awards. A lot of people on here confuse their need-based awards with merit scholarships.)</p>
<p>Your son has the stats, but that only gets him a close look, not an admit. Also, your son attends a very strong high school (Naperville, right?) that sends elite colleges tons of apps each year. Remember that your child will be compared directly to his peers who are applying to the same schools he is from his high school, on top of a tough national pool of applicants.</p>
<p>OP: Owen's guess that your son would likely be accepted if he applied to 2-4 schools is just SHEER speculation (plus he's 100% wrong about Dartmouth's "scholarship" as was pointed out -- Ivies only give need based $). He has no basis to state that other than the anecdote of his friend. </p>
<p>If you trawl around the CC site, you'll see kids who applied to many elites that were rejected by all. You'll see some who applied to one or two and the rest so-called "2nd" tier schools. Some were accepted at an Ivy and were rejected by many of the "lesser" schools. There is a very subjective nature about admissions.</p>
<p>As I said earlier, your son's stats make him a resonable candidate. The many "intangibles" that others have written about will make him more or less likely to be offered admission. And the advice about great non-ivy safeties is great too.</p>
<p>I agree with the other posters. The scores are fine. The grades are fine. The ranking may or may not do him in. In our school when you get down to the 5% level few kids are getting into Ivies without special circumstances. (Athletes, legacies, URMs, incredible ECs.) Even in the top 1% there were plenty of kids who got into one Ivy but not another. The numbers open the door, but most applications are decided by the mystery factors - essays, recommendations, and some overall assessment that the colleges make about what you can bring to their school.</p>
<p>ildad, I am also in Naperville, though I don't go to a Naperville school (that should let you know which (public) school I go to :)). Like everyone else, I say that your son is perfectly competitive to apply to the Ivies and other top schools, but that none of us can assure you that he even has a good shot at being admitted. There are probably 5 or 7 times as many perfectly qualified applicants as there are spots at the top schools. You can look at my stats profile to see my numbers, but I have similar stats to your son and was outright rejected at Yale and Princeton (where I have a double legacy...too bad the RD acceptance rate was 7%!! :(), and waitlisted at Brown and Columbia. Your son's extras are probably better than mine (what I believe the big problem to be with my app), but they are still probably only above average at best for an Ivy or Ivy type school. I don't know exactly which school your son attends, or what the admissions season was like there, but know that it was massacre at my school, and our top students are as qualified numbers-wise as any. If your son really wants to go to a great private school, be sure that you have multiple good matches on your list. Not that there is anything wrong with U of I, but many in my school decided that they were either going to get into super selective choice one or two, or go to U of I/another safety. Thus, many of my friends are going to U of I/another safety, or they are left with only one option + their safety. Don't forget LAC's--they are out of favor at my school, largely because of their small size, but even though I did not get into my top choice Ivies my list was well-structered and I have two excellent LAC's (Wellesley and Carleton) to choose from, as well as the Honors Programs at NYU and BC. Definitely have your son look east and west, too--though not true for the Ivies, slightly less selective schools (like Wellesley, although your son can obviously not apply there :)) really look for geographic diversity and Midwest location can help. Everybody and their dog applied to WashU and Northwestern at my school--and almost nobody got in.</p>
<p>His grades and scores are certainly within Ivies' range. What's weak for Ivy candidates, however, are his ECs. Take a look at leadership and awards of students who were accepted by Ivies (as well as many of those who were rejected with very strong ECs). Probably most Ivy applicants have stats within range. What makes the difference between rejection and acceptance are ECs plus factors such as income, state and location of residence, etc.</p>
<p>
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I would say if you were to apply not just one, but perhaps 2-4 ivy colleges, I think he should get in.
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It always amazes me that people who want to go to elite colleges have such a fundamental misunderstanding of math and probability.</p>
<p>The chances of getting into any one Ivy are the same no matter how many Ivies the student applies to. If I toss a coin, I have a 50% chance that it will come up heads. If I toss a coin 9 times and it comes up heads every time, I have a 50% chance on the 10th try that it will come up heads.</p>
<p>The chances that I will toss a coin 10 times in row and get heads every time are extremely small -- as are the chances of getting into 8 Ivies because you apply to 8. But the chance of getting rejected at all 8 is very high, because at each the likelihood of getting rejected is at least 10 times greater than the likelihood of acceptance. </p>
<p>Very strong candidates often get accepted to more than one Ivy because they are so strong. But there are many, many more students who get rejected at multiple Ivies than who get accepted. </p>
<p>But attitudes like the one expressed above do serve to keep the application numbers up at all the Ivies, increasing competition at each and reducing everyone's chances of getting into the one that they want. If every student was required to pick only one to apply to.... the chances would go up radically at each because of the reduced size of the applicant pools.</p>
<p>The primary reason that Owen's friend got accepted at Dartmouth rather than Harvard, Yale or MIT is that statistically Dartmouth is easier to get into. (I'm not trying to put down Dartmouth -- just commenting on "chances") The kid did not improve his chances at Dartmouth by applying to Harvard & Yale.</p>
<p>But if you toss 8 individual coins simultaneously, the odds that at least some of them will be heads is improved :). I know, not the same thing but you started it. I absolutely do believe that a QUALIFIED applicant improves his chances of acceptance by applying to more than one Ivy level school. Many students are accepted to either H,Y, or P but not all 3. Remember that Ivy schools build a class. Maybe school X doesn't need a left handed oboe player this year but school Y does.
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and reducing everyone's chances of getting into the one that they want.
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absolutely not true at all. No one 'takes' your spot at any school. Apply to all that you are interested in and pick the best deal or the best fit for you. Your buddy is on his own with his own merits.</p>
<p>Certainly apply to more than one Ivy/Ivy level college, but again, I had stats very similar/in some ways better and in some ways worse than the OP's son, and I applied to 4 Ivies, and received no offers of admission. The same for many I know, and many on this board, and many in general. Check out the rejection thread for confirmation. The competition for Ivy admission is such that I believe that a perfectly qualified applicant could apply to every Ivy and easily not recieve any offers of admission. Yes, an offer is more likely when you have multiple schools, but there are always kids who get shut out everywhere and others who sweep their college admissions.</p>
<p>He has a very good shot at Cornell and Wash U St Louis especially if he applies ED. Some of the LACS such as Williams are also strong possibilities.</p>
<p>
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The chances of getting into any one Ivy are the same no matter how many Ivies the student applies to.
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</p>
<p>That's false (strategic admissions, yield management) and irrelevant. The advice of applying to multiple Ivies was for increasing the chance of at least one admission at that echelon, not the chance of admission to any given school. The coin tosses are far from independent between schools, but chances of an admission can still be increased through more applications, unless it is farfetched at all the schools in question.</p>
<p>Well, is one well advised to undergo a surgery? There's the likelihood/hope/expectation of a medical benefit, and some hopefully smaller chance of complications. That doesn't mean to avoid surgery, but it would be irresponsible for an advisor to sidestep any discussion of the complications, as you have been doing.</p>
<p>It would be equally irresponsible not to find out the likelihood and gravity of the complications. I write this as someone who once had to consider a surgical operation for a loved one--I sought good advice from the best surgeon in town. </p>
<p>So if a high school junior has a 2250, and he thinks he could score higher as a high school senior in time for college applications, how does he weigh the apparently real advantages of a higher score against the possibly mythical disadvantages of taking the test twice rather than only once?</p>