<p>PurpleTitan It was a joke. There are many great politician with a great deal of heart. But you must admit that some politicians appear not to have heart, brains etc.</p>
<p>@voiceofreason66, a joke that you would not make if you substituted another group of people in there. </p>
<p>Raising the requirements? Some of us tell kids to check the college web sites for the sort of activities, thinking, reasoning and impact these single digit schools want. Seems that level of research and critical thinking is a pretty high bar already, for some. Some come back with all sorts of nonsense, including, “I don’t believe them” and “I don’t understand it.” </p>
<p>But then there are the persistent sorts on CC who keep repeating: “You won’t know unless you apply.” Even when the kid has obviously sub-target stats, rigor, and, ya know, can’t check the web site. Or as said, can’t even begin to articulate why he wants that school. </p>
<p>And the folks who don’t get the point of the essays- but are eager to review them and give an opinion. Or answer Chance Me threads, when they don’t know how it works- or haven’t even submitted their own apps. It’s its own mad cycle.</p>
<p>I get tired of “blame the colleges.” Sorry, venting here.</p>
<p>lookingforward, Why do people play the lottery? The chance of winning is astronomical. People do because it costs a $1 to win millions. If the lottery raised its admission standards by raising the cost of a ticket to $1000 who do you think would play?</p>
<p>The same is true with colleges. When the entry requirement is not so well defined, many students who have a lottery’s chance of getting accepted will take the bait and apply. How many 3.3GPA 1900SAT kids get into HYPSM without a hook? </p>
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Nope, I give to my undergrad institution (Harvard) even though they hardly need my money, because I had a good time there and I’d like to give back to the institution and in particular support more financial aid. I don’t give back to my grad school (Columbia) because I hate the direction the school took after I graduated. The current admissions rates make me sad, not happy. Once or twice the Harvard name has gotten me a job I probably didn’t deserve - at least not on the basis of the name - but mostly it’s a bit of a burden making me feel like an underachiever. I know a lot of Harvard grads who wished they attended smaller LACs and who have encouraged their kids to attend smaller, kinder schools. </p>
<p>As for MIT’s admissions committee - I’d love to think Ben Jones shed a few tears when he rejected my kid. But in retrospect, my son had such a good time at CMU and profited so much from their amazing alumni network, I’m happy he didn’t get in.</p>
<p>Once the admission decisions are sent out…do you really think any of the adcoms go and check to see who actually matriculated…or not? </p>
<p>No one is saying adcom work is easy. But shedding tears over a student who isn’t accepted is a bit over the top for someone who accepted an adcom position at a school that accepts a low %age of students.</p>
<p>Maybe they should work at a community college with open enrollment where everyone gets accepted. Then they could be doing a happy dance 24/7. But…betcha MIT pays better.</p>
<p>Do you think admins at these top colleges take it personally when those accepted turn them down? No. They understand it is a business and that every student is apply to 5 or 10 other colleges. It’s not that they don’t want these top students (who wrote beautiful ‘Why Dartmouth’ essays and are now going to BROWN! how could they!) to come to their school, it’s that they understand it is a system and sometimes the student decides against the school and sometimes the school decides against the student. Do you think colleges that admit 90% of the applicants are deliriously happy in their jobs because they are accepting everyone? I don’t.</p>
<p>People get rejected from things all the time - schools, jobs, even renting an apartment. There wouldn’t be applications if the spaces weren’t limited. Not being able to get a reservation at a restaurant doesn’t mean you aren’t qualified to eat there, just that there isn’t enough space for every qualified person (one who has the money) to eat there.</p>
<p>I agree that most people expect to be rejected from the top schools. They applied just to see what would happen to a fairly average student with fairly average scores but ‘a killer essay’ or ‘an EC that is just fantastic.’ What happens is that they are rejected too. Everyone expects that. </p>
<p>twoinanddone wrote “I agree that most people expect to be rejected from the top schools. They applied just to see what would happen to a fairly average student with fairly average scores but ‘a killer essay’ or ‘an EC that is just fantastic.’ What happens is that they are rejected too. Everyone expects that.”</p>
<p>If everyone expects to be rejected then why would anyone apply? Could it be that those that apply actual think that they might get in?</p>
<p>There are students who do apply with hopes to get admitted. Remember also, these top schools meet full need for all, and have very generous need based aid policies. Some students are willing to apply hoping that they win the lottery and gain acceptance…and get great need based aid.</p>
<p>I think @twoinanddone has hit on a key point. College admissions IS a business. Those who work in it know that. Students are parents don’t always seem to be tuned into that (to their detriment much of the time). It a natural part of the business to turn down students who apply to your institution, just as many students colleges accept will then turn them down. And the students turning them down don’t generally suffer from depression over it (it can be a struggle to decide, but once the decision is made, I think very few look back).</p>
<p>@voiceofreason66, say you have 10% odds of winning a million dollars.</p>
<p>So should you expect to win?
If the answer is “no”, does that mean that it isn’t worth trying for if the cost is $100 and some labor?</p>
<p>intparent I agree that colleges are businesses, but should the college admissions process be a business. When has it ever been a business to refuse customers?</p>
<p>They are applicants…not customers. There is a difference.</p>
<p>PurpleTitan Is this a real question or are you punking me? How about this, you give me $100 (application fee) to win a $Million bucks (admission to college), but the odds of winning is 0% (chance of 3.3GPA 1900SAT getting into HYPSM).</p>
<p>@PurpleTitan and even if you were to win the million (which is more like $600,000 after taxes), it would only carry you so far, just like an elite college education.</p>
<p>thumpert what is the difference?</p>
<p>Thumper, they do have access to who matriculated and some feedback- it can come up when a sibling applies or another kid from the hs or some special program. </p>
<p>VoR, if kids can’t figure out how many years of language they need (which is right there on the admissions pages) or why they should pursue higher math for engineering (or get an LoR from a math-sci teacher, not language and band) or what the difference is between IR and anthro, can’t get through a “what we look for,” what are the most selective schools supposed to do? Spoon feed it? They aren’t looking for that sort of kid at a Harvard. If some kids don’t have that level of pursuit, sorry, but they are already behind the eight ball. But noooo, some insist the colleges have to be more specific, it’s the colleges’ fault. </p>
<p>Anyone who watches some of the kids on CC, can see who is really more likely to stand a good chance. It’s not the lost, confused ones. Saving parents the app fees…starts at home.</p>
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<p>Sorry, that is a stupid question. Should Harvard build enough dorm space (somehow…) and hire enough professors to accept everyone who applies? This question has a ridiculous premise. There is going to be limited space at top schools no matter what. Someone is going to get turned down no matter what. And turning them into “mega schools” so the ad coms won’t feel bad… I’ve heard some doozies out here on CC, but that one might be the biggest.</p>
<p>Also, a lot of businesses do refuse customers. I worked for a big consulting company – there were certain types of clients or projects they would not bid on because they didn’t think they would make money on them. I current work for a large international bank. They are eliminating some lines of business that are high risk, and closing accounts of some customers in countries where the fraud risk is too high. Businesses make decisions all the time to “refuse customers”.</p>
<p>lookingforward Please!! What kids need are hard numbers. The colleges know what GPA and SAT scores will not be enough to get accepted. Just print it so the kids know so they can either try to obtain the needed requirements or just pass on applying.</p>
<p>intparent Or Harvard could just provide its hard minimum number in GPA and SAT so those that do not meet this don’t apply.</p>
<p>Lottery games are a poor analogy for college admissions. The threshold for participation in the lottery is niggling (a buck vs. years to accumulate GPA, ECs + test scores + recs + essays where the applicant pours heart out + lots of fees); the lottery selection is random; and the outcome of the lottery implies no judgements about your worth as a human being. </p>
<p>Based on the delusional posts I read in CC, most of the kids who apply to the far-reach schools believe they have a shot at admission.</p>