Do you think that a lot college admissions counselors are depressed?

<p>@voiceofreason66‌ Is that not basically published in the common set data? It’s not too difficult to use your own judgement based on the percentages of students per rank.</p>

<p>Lots and lots of kids don’t look at the numbers that are out there. The Common Data Set is available for most schools, and SAT/ACT ranges are available for pretty much all. Many students somehow think their special snowflake of an application will overcome the fact that their test scores are hovering under the 25% mark for the school even though they have no other hook – that is not the college’s fault that students and parents don’t avail themselves of the info that is available.</p>

<p>You surprise me, VoR. You want some hand holding and the Harvards want kids whose hands don;t need to be held. In admissions, there is no empathy admit. No “poor kid couldn’t figure it out, let’s give him a seat, instead of that other kid who did.” The colleges don’t owe the kids a place for wanting it ad praying.</p>

<p>Whats wrong with looking at CDS? Or at Brown’s app/admit tables? Ooh, they want hard numbers! But the colleges want a level of thinking, analysis, vision, energy, impact, etc. Not vanilla. </p>

<p>Businesses refuse customers all the time. No shirt, no shoes, no service. Think of refusing an applicant as deciding the college does not have enough time or money for one more admitted student.</p>

<p>And its worse for college instructors than adcoms, because we have to tell kids if they aren’t good enough to pass the course. After they’ve already paid thousands of dollars to take the course.</p>

<p>intparent SAT/ACT ranges are not a hard bottom line. HOPE is what drives kids with no shot because there isn’t a hard bottom line requirement posted anywhere. Why do you think the college does not print this simple information? So it is the colleges fault, only they have the ability and the information to do so.</p>

<p>rhandco In your examples the refusal is written and quantifiable for the benefit of other customers so they come back but refusing customers is not the point of any business.</p>

<p>Why is it in the college’s best interest to publish hard rankings that don’t actually exist? Someone with a 3.3/1900 could quite possibly get in under the right circumstances, while a 4.0/2400 might not (and has not). If you think the admissions process is so clear cut, why would admissions counselors even exist?</p>

<p>irlandaise You raise a good question? Perhaps you can answer it as well.</p>

<p>HOPE and stupidity. A kid who can’t find and validate their scores against the 50% range for acceptance to a top school honestly doesn’t deserve acceptance, IMHO. They don’t print the info because they want some flexibility for an athlete, legacy, URM, or kid with a GREAT story (eg, immigrated from a refuge camp at age 10 speaking no English, one of 8 kids, and learned English and got through high school with a 3.9 and a 2100 SAT). Students who don’t have a hook should assume that if their numbers are under the 50% mark, their chances are slimmer than the already low acceptance rate percentage, and if their scores are under the 25% mark, they shouldn’t waste any time with the application. The numbers are there in black and white, honestly. If someone doesn’t know if they have a hook, they can ask out here or ask their GC.</p>

<p>Well, I don’t think the admissions process is clear cut in the least, so… I don’t really see how I could. Nor do I think it would be in a college’s best interest to publish hard, non-existent minimums.</p>

<p>Uh, YEAH many businesses need to refuse customers all the time. The point of the business is to make a profit, and you cannot make a profit if your effort per client is more than the amount paid by each client minus expenses. I used to do contracting work, and after a while, we had to refuse certain clients when the expenses were outweighing the benefit. A simple example is when a company wins a contract with a Fortune 50 company, for millions of dollars of profit per year, and they have to close out all their little contracts. A 50 page proposal to a small company that is paying barely above margin was not worth our time. A 50 page proposal to a big company that will pay our standard multiplier is definitely worth our time.</p>

<p>Colleges are making a four-year commitment to each student based on some numbers and writing. They need to be choosy, especially elite schools. </p>

<p>All that spam email you get from colleges? That is something that is almost free for colleges, and if they get a few applicants that way, it is a great ROI (return on investment).</p>

<p>If instead they send admissions representatives around the country to various top private and public high schools, they are spending a lot of money for a few potential applicants.</p>

<p>That’s why schools like my Ivy alma mater send local alumni at college fairs, and not admissions officers. Some colleges have their admissions officers on the road like traveling salesmen, spending two weeks in the Northeast, two weeks in the Mid Atlantic region, two weeks in the Southeast, etc.</p>

<p>There is no way a college accepting everyone who wants to go there would be tenable. And I work somewhere where they sometimes accept students who are not ready for college, and all that happens is that the students fail out after a year or two, and the college pockets the money. And future potential applicants are turned off by a 75% freshman retention rate and 25% 4-year graduation rate. </p>

<p>@GMTplus7‌ </p>

<p>Seriously? When DD was rejected by Brown, it had nothing to do with her worth as a human being. It was poor fit, maybe it was her essays…and YES! Maybe someone else was better than her! It’s not the end of the world. Life goes on…dry your tears and wait for the next disappointment that life hands you! Cuz guess what? It’s coming!!! And if you sit around and boohoo about your top choice rejecting you, then how the hell will you deal when life really gives you it’s “you know what” to kiss? </p>

<p>We have raised a generation of wimps, and by that I mean those who can’t take rejection. Our generation was raised with lots of bumps, bruises and dings. I’m sick of the coddled/entitled generation thinking that something is owed to them. </p>

<p>After DD busted her hump throughout HS, she knew full well that when she hit submit on the CA, it was a crap shoot! No promises, no guarantees. That’s why you craft a list of schools that will be a good fit and that you love. Hopefully the love is reciprocated! If not…regroup and live.</p>

<p>I don’t see why an adcom would be depressed at all. The rejected applicants will all end up at a great school. </p>

<p>There are many more professions where depression could occur, like a pediatric oncologist who loses a patient. You get the gist.</p>

<p>Why is the difference between an applicant and a customer? Oh please. </p>

<p>An applicant is just that…someone applying for something…not someone who has actually been accepted.</p>

<p>A customer is one who is paying for services rendered…either after acceptance for such payment, or because payment is required for the service to be delivered. </p>

<p>Applicants can be denied. And they are in many situations (loans of any kind, memberships to some organizations, college applicants, etc).</p>

<p>@NewHaven, </p>

<p>Granted, I was engaging in hyperbole w my comment about “worth as a human being”, but the college admissions process is by its very nature a judgement about a candidate’s worthiness to attend that school.</p>

<p>There’s no judgement in a lottery outcome. It’s random.</p>

<p>@NewHaven, </p>

<p>Granted, I was engaging in hyperbole w my comment about “worth as a human being”, but the college admissions process is by its very nature a judgement about a candidate’s worthiness. </p>

<p>There’s no judgement in a lottery outcome. It’s random.</p>

<p>thumper So the difference for you between an applicant and a customer is that a customer is accepted to the university but an applicant is not? Weren’t all customers in this case applicants ? So when I go into a Macy’s store, I am not a customer until I purchase an item so Macy’s can treat me poorly compared to those that walked into the store and actually bought something.
Amazing logic.</p>

<p>I am sure that there are some students who come across as entitled when they are outstanding only in local context. I am sure it’s annoying. Yet there are unquestionably still applicants who deserve to get into Harvard and its ilk.</p>

<p>HOPE and stupidity. Sorry, but that says it all. Making it clearer won’t solve the core problem. </p>

<p>Harvard decides who “deserves” an admit letter. Not those outside the gates, no matter how much anyone thinks they know a super kid or two. And they make that decision from a large final group who technically deserve and could make it to graduation and own the freaking tie. </p>

<p>And Harvard has a lengthy “what we look for” page. </p>

<p>lookingforward Yes Harvard does the deciding and has been sued because it might have violated discrimination laws.</p>

<p>At Macy’s everyone is allowed to spend their money. No application required. Macy’s clerks should be treating you well from the get go. No application needed to be a customer.</p>

<p>For colleges…they don’t take your money for attending until your are accepted.</p>

<p>I think you are being purposely confrontational on this thread.</p>