Doctors - America's Top Paying Job

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
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<p>My older brother recently graduated college and is now working for a major bank. He's living the good life in NYC and making a very nice sum of money at the same time. Meanwhile, I'll still be slaving away for the next ~10+ years before I can experience that level of success. He works very hard (sometimes 100 hours/week), but I will too. College is as easy as it's going to get from here on out.</p>

<p>Medicine is a very long and difficult road. Before you truly commit yourself, you have to be honest and ask, Is it all going to be worth it in the end?</p>

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<p>***OP here using diff login, other one not working.. *</p>

<p>lol ok ok i didn't mean to get people here so riled up</p>

<p>everyone's case is different and i made some broad generalizations</p>

<p>i created this thread in a sense because everyone here keeps insisting you have to really be in it for the "right reasons" which according to everyone here seems to be some variant of having a heartfelt desire to save sick people's lives. </p>

<p>my reason's are diff and read on if youre interested</p>

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you have to be honest and ask, Is it all going to be worth it in the end?

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<p>to me personally what i really feel is that i have thought about different occupations and here are the reasons i want to be a doctor, preferably some kind of surgeon, even more preferably a plastic surgeon</p>

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<li>i prefer science subjects over other subjects and enjoy learning about human anatomy </li>
<li>i've seen surgerys being performed in person and am quite fascinated and intrigued by them and would like to do them myself</li>
<li>i want a job where i can work with people and not in a cubicle</li>
<li>the good salary, job independence, and security are all pluses too</li>
</ul>

<p>and basically not to sound arrogant or like an a$s but i have good grades at a good uni, and am doing all the recommended extracurrics that med schools like and I am fairly confident i can get in somewhere. and i'm willing to put up with working my butt off for many more years until i can become a doc as well</p>

<p>the main place where i differ from everyone else is that i never felt some heartfelt desire to go save sick people in the world. (i am trying to be honest, not everyone is like that even though many of you are so please dont criticize how i feel).
so that aside, what is wrong with being a doc just for the sake of having a selfish interest in the surgery process? most people do their jobs because of what they are doing, not how it is affecting others anyway. this is especially why i would want to try to become a cosmetic/plastic surgeon if possible and let those who really want to help sick people take up the other specialties..</p>

<p>and don't misinterpret that to mean i don't care for people. obviously if i get to that position, i would want the outcomes of my patients to be as best as possible. </p>

<p>and to sakky - i'm sure that after 15 years the brother who chose to go to med school (hoping he stays healthy and lives) will probably have a nicer automobile and nicer place of residence than his brother if he so chooses</p>

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i'm sure that after 15 years the brother who chose to go to med school (hoping he stays healthy and lives) will probably have a nicer automobile and nicer place of residence than his brother if he so chooses

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sakky doesn't tell us what the first brother does. This is not a good assumption.</p>

<p>Look -- if the OP thinks that medicine seems "fun," then that's a topic for a different thread. But if you are seriously trying to tell us that it's financially lucrative because the salary is high, then you're wrong. It's a good job. Stable. (Mostly.)</p>

<p>The point is: you are paying a lot of money to go into medicine. Most people do so because they're committed to the ideal. You're paying money because you think the job is more fun. Step one, though, is to acknowledge that you're walking away from a lot of money.</p>

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i'm sure that after 15 years the brother who chose to go to med school (hoping he stays healthy and lives) will probably have a nicer automobile and nicer place of residence than his brother if he so chooses.</p>

<p>sakky doesn't tell us what the first brother does. This is not a good assumption.

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<p>The first brother is a management consultant for a major strategy firm. So I think it's quite unclear who will have the better car and residence in 15 years. </p>

<p>But what is clear is who has the better car and residence right now. That's not even close. And, frankly, it is precisely when you are young when you can really enjoy those kinds of things (i.e. living in a swanky downtown neighborhood near all the cool bars and clubs, driving around in a cool car: these are activities that cater to the young.) Even if brother #2 does in fact end up with a better residence and car 15 years later, frankly, he'll be too old to really enjoy it. </p>

<p>Like I said, you're young only once. To be a doctor means that you are sacrificing your youth, and that's something you'll never get back. You have to ask yourself whether that's really worth it.</p>

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And, frankly, it is precisely when you are young when you can really enjoy those kinds of things (i.e. living in a swanky downtown neighborhood near all the cool bars and clubs, driving around in a cool car: these are activities that cater to the young.) Even if brother #2 does in fact end up with a better residence and car 15 years later, frankly, he'll be too old to really enjoy it.

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<p>Speak for yourself. If at age 40 you're so "old" that you can't enjoy a nice home, a nice vehicle, nice restaurants... well, I think you need to get your head checked.</p>

<p>Now, if you were arguing that it's a bit of a gamble to assume that you'll live long enough to get to the nice house and car, then I could agree with that.</p>

<p>Of course, this doesn't negate the reality that someone else is enjoying those things right now while you're poor as a church mouse. But you make it sound like life is over when you hit 30.</p>

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<p>Hmmmm....at age 40 ( okay 45) your on CC trying to help get your kid into college, wondering what you should have done differently, and watching visions of a cool car disappear......again......</p>

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and hours wise, once youre out of residency you can have some control over your own hours, especially with your own practice.

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<p>You do have some control over your hours in private practice, but every hour off will cost you productivity and therefore money. For instance, most residents occasionally call in sick, perhaps 3-4 times a year. By contrast, most private practioners rarely call in sick, perhaps once every 3-4 years.</p>

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Hmmmm....at age 40 ( okay 45) your on CC trying to help get your kid into college, wondering what you should have done differently, and watching visions of a cool car disappear......again......

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<p>Not to be sarcastic, but if you're 40 and have a college-bound kid, that means you gave birth in your early twenties. Given that the average age of a matriculating medical student is 24 or so, how many medical students have kids? Not many.</p>

<p>"Cool car" doesn't always equal expensive. My car-loving friend thinks I'm bonkers, but I'd love to have a Mini Cooper. They look like so much fun! And they don't break the pocketbook.</p>

<p>But I'm nitpicking. :) I suppose one ought to start saving for the kids' college fund before you even think about conceiving them.</p>

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Speak for yourself. If at age 40 you're so "old" that you can't enjoy a nice home, a nice vehicle, nice restaurants... well, I think you need to get your head checked.

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<p>Well, let me put it to you this way. Go to the best clubs or bars in any trendy downtown district. What percentage of people over 40 do you think you'll find? Something in the single digits perhaps? What do you think that means? </p>

<p>Exactly. It means that some things are enjoyable only when you're young. Once your youth is gone, it's gone for good. You don't want to be the "old guy" at the party that everybody laughs at behind his back.</p>

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Go to the best clubs or bars in any trendy downtown district. What percentage of people over 40 do you think you'll find? Something in the single digits perhaps? What do you think that means?

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<p>The question is, at age 40 do you have the same interests and priorities that you did at 20? I'd say most people don't. Just like they've given up on the childhood fantasy of a pony, they've also given up on the "hanging out in bars is cool" sort of thing.</p>

<p>But I can see what you're saying - most people in their forties have no interest in ponies, but some of them might still like the idea of the kind of coolness that youth brings.</p>

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<p>" if you're 40 and have a college-bound kid, that means you gave birth in your early twenties. "</p>

<p>Maybe I need to re-do the math, but my H was 26 when we had our first, and he's the cool car guy. (I'm older but I'm SURE I was 29). He is 46 now, but I've been second guessing the cars we've had since we entered the college search, and he's still wishing for something cooler. </p>

<p>My point is we waited longer than many to have kids, LEASE a relatively "cool" car, don't have the money to send our kids to a private school, in part because we are still paying educational loans, and need to be aware of aging parents. Forty wasn't that different from now except we made less money and needed a full time baby sitter; I don't feel we EVER got to live like some of our neighbors ( only one other is an MD) and we are a two doctor family.</p>

<p>My brother has a mini coop, dropped out of college ( he DID go back though)...a film director...up for a grammy... and no kids...</p>

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<p>you don't need to live in an expensive area to go to the clubs/bars in that area. even in med school and as a resident i'm sure you can find the money and time to occasionally go to a nice bar or club. it is not as big of a deal as you are making it. you are talking like any possibility of enjoyment in the younger years is sucked out of your life if you go the med route. and i'm also sure that you can enjoy a nice car at any age. my dad is far north of 30 and he'd sure like a beamer.</p>

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The question is, at age 40 do you have the same interests and priorities that you did at 20? I'd say most people don't. Just like they've given up on the childhood fantasy of a pony, they've also given up on the "hanging out in bars is cool" sort of thing.

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<p>Certainly people's interests and priorities change. But at the same time, plenty of other things can be done optimally only when you're young. Once that time passes, that's it.</p>

<p>I'll give you an example. I know of a woman who had wanted to try to be an actress. But she never tried because she never felt that she had enough time (as she felt she was too focused on her studies and then her career). Now she's over 35, and she basically can't do it anymore, not only because she doesn't look young anymore (and you need to look young to break in as not too many actresses are over 35 who can break into the industry) but also because she has parental responsibilities and hence can't justify the time necessary to move to Hollywood and audition for roles She's not really interested in acting per se anymore (as she is more interested in raising her kids), but she is interested in what might have happened if she had pursued it when she was younger. If nothing else, even if her acting career failed, she can at least tell herself that she tried and that she had an interesting experience along the way. </p>

<p>So basically, she now regrets not having allocated the time to pursue her interest when she was younger and that window is now closed. Now she'll spend the rest of her life wondering 'What if'. The ironic thing is that she had instead spent her time on a graduate degree that she never really uses anyway, as she ended up in a career that has little to do with that degree and she now only works part-time anyway (as she spends the rest of her time taking care of her kids). </p>

<p>It all gets down to what I've been saying: you're young only once. Once it's gone, it's gone.</p>

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you don't need to live in an expensive area to go to the clubs/bars in that area.

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<p>The truth of the matter is that the hippest places in the world tend to be in expensive areas. In fact, from an economics standpoint, expensive places are expensive for a reason: that they are nice places to live that consequently draw a lot of people. If nobody wanted to live in those places, then prices would inevitably drop. Price signals are proxies for demand. </p>

<p>Hence, as a medical student, you are by definition going to be forced to live in areas that are not particularly desirable, because that's all you can afford.</p>

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ou are talking like any possibility of enjoyment in the younger years is sucked out of your life if you go the med route. and i'm also sure that you can enjoy a nice car at any age. my dad is far north of 30 and he'd sure like a beamer.

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<p>I never said that ALL of your enjoyment is sucked out of your life. But we would be remiss if we didn't acknowledge that your life as a medical student is less enjoyable from a leisure standpoint, and that's a "cost", in terms of quality of life. </p>

<p>Obviously people of all ages can enjoy nice cars or anything else that is nice. But the point is, it is better (from a quality of life) standpoint to ALWAYS be able to have nice things as opposed to having to wait until you're old. In fact, that's much of the basis of the principle of the time-value-of-money: that money earned today is more valuable than money earned later in your life. Why wait to drive a Beamer in 20 years if you can afford it today? The question then naturally gets down to a matter of present-day affordability, but that illustrates my point. Med students have to suffer a lifestyle of enforced poverty for many years before they can finally enjoy a nice lifestyle. People in other professions can enjoy that nice lifestyle immediately. Furthermore, those med students might be waiting for a future that will never come. I.e. they might die, they might suffer a permanent injury, or (probably far more commonly) they might have kids, all of which will significantly modify your ability to enjoy life.</p>

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<p>you didnt understand the point i was making.</p>

<p>you were saying that you won't be able to live in a trendy area and enjoy the good bars/clubs there because you will be poor.</p>

<p>i was trying to say that you can still enjoy those nice bars/clubs even if you don't live there. i.e. living in a shack 25 mins away from the nice part of town doesn't restrict you from visiting those trendy places. as in you can drive there yourself (or take a cab or bus, watever). living in a poorer area shouldn't restrict your social life. i'm sure you can find the money to visit the bar or club even if you can't afford rent in direct vicinity of them. make sense?</p>

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<p>outerbanx,</p>

<p>The reality of the situation, however, is that med students and young doctors are short on both money AND time. It's not like i-bankers who have money but no time, or like most other young professionals who have time but no money.</p>

<p>Med students and doctors tend to have neither. </p>

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living in a shack 25 mins away from the nice part of town doesn't restrict you from visiting those trendy places.

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<p>Let's assume 25 mins = about 20 miles. That means that the trip is going to cost you (in gas alone) around $5. Round trip is about 1 hour of driving.</p>

<p>Assuming that said med student is actually studying (she is) and is short on cash (probably is), this is not exactly a good situation.</p>

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you didnt understand the point i was making.</p>

<p>you were saying that you won't be able to live in a trendy area and enjoy the good bars/clubs there because you will be poor.</p>

<p>i was trying to say that you can still enjoy those nice bars/clubs even if you don't live there. i.e. living in a shack 25 mins away from the nice part of town doesn't restrict you from visiting those trendy places. as in you can drive there yourself (or take a cab or bus, watever). living in a poorer area shouldn't restrict your social life. i'm sure you can find the money to visit the bar or club even if you can't afford rent in direct vicinity of them. make sense?

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<p>No, I understood your point perfectly. I think you didn't understand the point I was making. I believe UCLAri addressed your points quite well.</p>

<p>The real problem seems to be time, or put another way, a matter of convenience (which is just a facet of time). After all, think of it this way. Why exactly is it that living in the trendy areas is so much more expensive than living in the outskirts? After all, everybody - not just med students, but everybody - can just drive in from the outskirts, right? So why are people willing to pay so much to live right in the middle of things? It has to do with convenience. If you live right where everything is, you don't have to spend extra time getting there and getting back. You don't have to circle around looking for parking. You don't have to worry about having to find a designated driver if you're going to drink (i.e. you can just stagger back home). Heck, you may not even need to own a car at all. Lots of people in the cities don't own cars, nor do they need to. </p>

<p>In effect, what all those trendy young professionals who live in, say, the East Village or New York, or the San Francisco North Beach, or Boston's Back Bay are doing is basically trading money for time. If it really was so easy, as you say, for everybody to just drive to those clubs and back, then everybody would just do that and hence nobody would bother to pay the prices to live in those areas and consequently the rents there would be cheap (or at least cheaper), right? In short, the reason why a decent apartment in the East Village can easily run $2000+ a month is because it's a very convenient place to live. Sure, if you want to live cheap, you can live in New Jersey, but that's just not very convenient.</p>

<p>The salient point is, I repeat, that to be a doctor, you have to give up your youth. That's something that you'll never get back. Now, is it worth it? For some people, sure. But my point is, we shouldn't pretend that you're not giving up something valuable. You are. The question is whether the trade is worthwhile to you.</p>

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<p>whatever this is a stupid argument and i'm not going to continue it after this post.</p>

<p>i was using that example personally. i live in the suburbs about 25 mins away from a major city, and my friends and i manage to go out to the city a few weekends every month to have fun since there is more stuff to do there. </p>

<p>you can tell me all you want how i have less responsibilities and more time now than i will when i'm an adult or how i live with my parents and don't have to provide for myself, but the bottom line is where there is a will there is a way. if you want to have fun you can make it happen. if you complain about every inconvenience you have in your life compared to someone elses, then you won't have fun, and that sucks for you.</p>

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i have less responsibilities

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True.</p>

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and more time

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True.</p>

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i live with my parents and don't have to provide for myself

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True.</p>

<p>You have just given three very good arguments against your original argument, and you follow it with:</p>

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where there is a will there is a way

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Which is not only a non-responsive cliche but is also patently false. (I really really want to play strong safety in the NFL.)</p>

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if you complain about every inconvenience you have in your life compared to someone elses, then you won't have fun

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This is true. Which is why young people who are medical residents should do their best not to complain about being poor and working long hours. This does not mean that people should ignore the brutality of a job when deciding what they want to do, which is what you're implying.</p>