<p>It's a relative term...pay. MD's will probably make less than current MD's, but is that really a problem? Were they making that money before and had to take a paycut? That would be a problem. Going into a profession that still pays above average still will be decent for those coming into the field.</p>
<p>It might mean some of the luxuries of life that we are "told" are important might not be as affordable. Driving a ford over a lexus perhaps. In the back of my mind I think "is that a bad thing?". When someone makes more money than their common sense can control, is the outcome good?</p>
<p>in my opinion, salary in the field of medicine will always balance itself out. There is the fact that people will only go through so much of schooling for adequate compensation. Let's face it, if pay for doctors goes down to 50k, so will pay in other fields. Either that or not many people will go into medicine creating a demand for doctors and therefore eventually increasing salary. At the end of the day, society requires doctors unlike any other profession so there will always be demand and therefore adequate salary compensation. </p>
<p>Computers and engineering have failed because they could not utilize this. It is more of an expendable field because engineers are not as "necessary" as doctors. And the schooling is much less so it is easier to get into engineering and therefore salary can go down without consequences.</p>
<p>There is not much pay in the field of medicine, considering the amount of work a doctor does. This takes into account where they are working, hours, etc.</p>
<p>The real flow of money doesn't come unless you own your own practice. Working in a local hospital and all may still come with benefits but you are always on call, and the pay will never be the same as if you owned your own practice.</p>
<p>
[quote]
never will you see a doctor who can't afford to put food on the table for his family.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Dude, here in America, I've never seen a person who can't afford to put food on the table for his family, with the obvious homeless people aside.</p>
<p>And yes, I've known one that was a doctor, and no, her being a doctor had nothing to do with her problems. (i.e. she wasn't an unemployed CT Surgeon looking for a job.)</p>
<p>I have a thread on the subject titled "Physician Compensation Economics". Bottom line is you'll work double the hours for about 30% more lifetime pay than your average auto mechanic if you go into a highly-paid specialty like interventional cardiology. You make about 10% more lifetime pay for more hours than a corporate lawyer. You make about half the amount of money as a corporate financier.</p>
<p>Remember, this is lifetime wealth that includes the time value of money - not annual salary.</p>
<p>Are you bitter you went into economics bluedevilmike? </p>
<p>Your physician compensation thread makes the assumption that the money is all put into the bank and earning interest. Obviously that is not the case in real life.</p>
<p>No, it makes the assumption that money has a time-value, which is the case in real life. This time-value is why money earns interest when you put it into the bank, not vice versa. It also explains why loans charge interest. It helps explain why people invest in venture capital. And it's one of a few reasons why real estate values rise over time.</p>
<p>The point is that money that is acquired earlier in life can be used to accomplish various investments, but these decisions often take time to manifest themselves - so the combination of money and time is more valuable than money by itself.</p>
<p>This isn't about banks and interest rates. This is about the real fact that money matters more if you earn it earlier and less if you earn it later. That's undeniable, basic economics.</p>
<hr>
<p>And, for the record, I haven't "gone into" economics. I majored in it in college.</p>
<hr>
<p>Oh, and my grammar wasn't very clear in the last sentence. A clarification would say: "You [as a physician] make about half the amount of money [that you would have if you had been] a corporate financier."</p>
<p>Asking about Doctor's salaries usually indicated a higher interest in money, than the actual job of...oh, helping people. </p>
<pre><code>But, that aside... Doctor's do not make as great money nowadays, mainly due...to as many people said, malpractice and other factors. You do however get the lovely, priceless joy of helping sick people! Hip hip hooorayy! Either that....or like me, that doesn't really matter, as much as just simply solving problems.
</code></pre>
<p>Doctor's dont make that much money (except when compared to a janitor or a chimney sweeper, or an out of work third-rate hit man for hire). </p>
<p>But, if that doesn't matter to you, and you like helping people, or like me, you like solving cases to which the average person couldn't fathom. then by all means, be a doctor! </p>
<p>But if not...The world could use more chimney sweepers.</p>
<p>There is always the opportunity to make A LOT of money in this field, believe me. This past year, my dad took home $300,000 from his private practice ALONE, plus another $200,000 for teaching. THAT'S HALF A MILLION DOLLARS. And no, he doesn't have a Ph.D., although he does write quite a lot of papers. </p>
<p>Ortho is a financially stable field, but it's certainly not representative of medicine in general. Its financial base is dominantly elective procedures.</p>
<p>My suspicion is that your dad is a very talented, well-trained, and entrepreneurial sort. These are all compliments.</p>
<p>It sounds to me like he put in at least seven years in a hundred-hour-a-week residency, during which time he made somewhat more than a waiter or janitor. It also sounds to me, since he is in academics, that he was far better during that residency than many of his colleagues. Finally, it sounds to me as if he knows how to manage his time well enough to create multiple sources of income. Orthopedic surgeons are very busy people, and to hold down what appears to be a full-time academic job as well would certainly divide his time considerably.</p>
<p>So yes, chatham -- certainly intelligent, hard-working, talented, entrepreneurial people have the opportunity to make a lot of money. But that's true in all sectors. Your father sounds like he could have started in any of a number of sectors and done very well for himself.</p>
<p>And, quite possibly, much better. (I shudder to think how rich your family would be had your father gone into venture capital, for example.)</p>
<p>Are you saying it's a bad idea to practice medicine? I'm not quite following your logic yet I do agree with the time value of money aspects. However, that's only part of the picture isn't it? </p>
<p>"You [as a physician] make about half the amount of money [that you would have if you had been] a corporate financier." </p>
<p>possibly, possibly your corporation goes TU and you're job hunting again. Lot's of varibles in this situation besides dollars, no? </p>
<p>From a purely economic cash while young viewpoint, a person should become a professional baseball or basketball player. Where else can an 18-19 year old earn more in a year than their parents do in a lifetime? </p>
<p>If it's only about dollars join a cartell, no taxes on the income. :)</p>
<p>Actually, I was under the impression that professional sports players make a lot less money than actors or actresses. :p</p>
<p>Certainly I think medical school is a bad financial decision. Not atrocious -- certainly not on par with playing the lotto for a living or anything like that. Just not a good decision.</p>
<p>And remember, hospitals can go bankrupt or move the same way a corporation can. And medical skills are transportable the same way a solid corporate resume and business skills are. The dollar sums I gave you use national averages, so that includes an awful lot of people whose corporations have gone bottoms up and still done just fine.</p>
<p>In fact, a lay person's description of VC might imply that they're willing to tolerate ten failures for every success they find. And they can still make plenty on that.</p>
<p>As an economics major who saw many of my friends entertain high powered job offers -- even being offered one myself* -- and spent hours poring over case studies of some quite successful business men and directly interviewing others**, I got a pretty good feel for the business world. Not great. But pretty good.</p>
<p>And as a medical student from a medical family, I've gotten a pretty good idea of the economics of being a physician.</p>
<hr>
<p>The answer is this: I am willing to pay a lot of money for the privelege of taking care of people. That's what medical school is -- is very bright people sacrificing financially better careers for the privelege of being responsible for taking care of people when they need it the most.</p>
<p>I just hope that premeds enter that world with open eyes. You're going to have less than half the lifetime income of your average friends who enter corporate finance, to say nothing of the smarter ones. That's okay with me. And I'm glad to hear it's okay with many others. But is it okay with you?</p>
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<p>*: "Sorry, I'm not interested in a job -- I'm actually going to medical school next year." "Listen to our offer. We think we can change your mind."</p>
<p>**: Successful in absolute terms -- actually nothing particular special in the world of venture capital.</p>
<p>look i personally know doctors who make >$400-500k per year even ones who makes millions and work on madonna(yea the dudes an ENT hes done like everyones throat/ear)</p>
<p>on the other hand i know docs who makes only 90-150k a year....so it depends on how good you are..</p>
<p>Not so much how "good" you are as a combination of specialty, geographic location, and -- most importantly -- your other entrepreneurial details. Do you own your own practice? Do you own the building in which you do surgery? Etc.</p>
<p>Certainly there are opportunities to make money in any field. I'd just say that medicine has less opportunities than many seem to expect, given the years of education students put in in order to be there.</p>