Does a prestigious undergrad BBA negate the need for an MBA

Parents Forum
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<p>Thanks, EllieMom! I was hoping you’d read this thread, since I know this is your “wheelhouse” too ( = the annoying new phrase in the marketing world to describe “stuff that’s up your alley”).</p>

<p>CPG is just a really fun (IMO) and interesting field – because you get all types. I’ve worked with brand managers on up to CEOs who had MBAs from the fanciest schools - Harvard, Yale, Wharton, Kellogg, Duke, etc. – and some who only had bachelor’s degrees. Depending where you enter and how good you are, it just doesn’t matter that much at all for promotion purposes. I do agree the benefit of an MBA after working a few years may be to get connections to move into a <em>different</em> field, but to go up the brand management ladder? Only if it’s of personal interest, IMO.</p>

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<p>@EllieMom how could your partner (phD from Harvard) not be taken seriously, especially when he went to such a prestigious school? Granted, philosophy is not exactly a financially productive degree, but getting the degree from a top university would help a lot.</p>

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<p>Jarjarbinks - the grown-up world is not what you envision it to be, where everyone just oohs and aahs and genuflects over someone who went to Harvard just because they went to Harvard. </p>

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<p>^ This. Once you get out and start working in the business world, where your degree is from barely makes a difference. It is very much about what skills do you have and how hard are you willing to work. A PhD in philosophy would give someone NO edge in the business world at all, no matter what school it was from. </p>

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<p>

As I stated earlier, MBA, unlike law or medicine, is never a requirement for ANY job. There must be a demand by certain employers as evidenced by on campus recruitment at business schools and job postings. The barriers for job entries are much higher today than 15+years ago. That’s why I gave examples from my kids’ experience, not mine.</p>

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<p>And for students who didn’t study it as an undergraduate, I can see the value. But you are overvaluing for students who already have a BBA from a top school.</p>

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<p>I have little knowledge about the industry under discussion, but just by reading the job postings linked by cbreeze, it seems when these companies hire brand managers externally, they require/prefer MBA as well as relevant experience. It’s possible that when they promote someone within, degree is not a major consideration or is not even considered, but like I said earlier if you are “moving around”, an MBA will give you some advantage.</p>

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<p>No.</p>

<p>I did my MBA at Belmont. While accredited by the AACSB, it is not HBS.</p>

<p>Nonetheless, most of our classes were essay-, case- and teamwork-based.</p>

<p>Our case studies were almost exclusively HBS cases. I can’t say that our profs graded us as sternly as HBS profs would have, but the fact is, about half of my MBA was based on HBS curricula. And no undergrad BBA in the country can touch that.</p>

<p>Plus, HBS aside, a Master’s degree generally requires much more in-depth research than a Bachelor’s and, maybe aside from the top LACs, much more writing.</p>

<p>So the accredited MBA, person for person, is more impressive, educationally speaking, than any BBA.</p>

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<p>Some kids who graduate with BBAs will get great jobs because of the reputations of the schools from which they received their degrees. But no BBA can match an MBA in intensity, breadth, nor depth of study.</p>

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<p>I am not a business expert at all…but I would think the need for the MBA would vary depending on the job and career path…and the employer. I don’t think it would matter at all if you have a prestige BBA or not. If your employer, or your job requires you get the MBA, you will need to get it. </p>

<p>We know a number of 20 something’s who work for top companies. The companies wanted them to have the MBA and either fully or partially funded it. These kids came from a variety of undergrad programs, not all business, and not all elite schools. </p>

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<p>Wow, you are woefully uninformed. The Ross BBA is also case based, using HBS cases. Doubt your MBA was any stronger than my BBA. And not sure why you would say it can’t match the MBA – the number of courses and general content are not that different from a strong BBA program and MBA programs. Cuz you gotta know basic accounting, marketing, finance, business law, etc. before you can take advanced classes in either environment.</p>

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<p>“I have little knowledge about the industry under discussion, but just by reading the job postings linked by cbreeze, it seems when these companies hire brand managers externally, they require/prefer MBA as well as relevant experience. It’s possible that when they promote someone within, degree is not a major consideration or is not even considered, but like I said earlier if you are “moving around”, an MBA will give you some advantage.”</p>

<p>Well, I have a lot of knowledge about this industry, Benley, given that it’s* my industry,* and the positions that were linked to were the positions that I’ve worked with, either as coworkers or as clients, for the past 25 years.</p>

<p>And some of these positions were not “basic” brand manager positions. For example, the J&J senior manager GFO position is one I am extremely familiar with (and can’t really say more without outing myself, but I will say that GFO = global franchise organization, so they’re looking for someone to manage a brand across different countries, though the direct on-the-ground marketing is handled by each individual country):</p>

<p>The description read as such:
*“A BA degree is required. Master in business or marketing specialization preferred. A minimum of 6 years of progressive experience in setting a vision and executing in a similar integrated brand leadership role within a consumer packaged goods organization is required, preferably with a breadth of functional and/or industry experience. Experience in OTC or other highly regulated environment is highly preferred. Experience marketing in a digital world, (i.e., social media, e-commerce, analytics, on-line) is required. Experience working in a global organization and collaborating with regional groups is preferred. Ability to interact with senior management, build trust-based relationships and work under own initiative through an inspirational leadership style. Experience leading in a matrix environment and cross functional teams is required.” *</p>

<p>I know exactly what each of these competencies are, how they are demonstrated, and what they might be looking for in a candidate. And I will absolutely guarantee you that if someone comes along with these competencies and experience, and they “only” have a BBA, or they have an MA in Communications or Psychology or Analytics, no one will care that they don’t have an MBA. </p>

<p>And there is no MBA in the world that confers these skill sets such that someone without this work experience would be magically seen as qualified just because they got an MBA. None. This is all on the job stuff. I think you’re thinking that a typical MBA fresh grad walks in and gets this job, and this just isn’t true. </p>

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<p>" If your employer, or your job requires you get the MBA, you will need to get it."</p>

<p>This. I have been hiring for Fortune 100 companies for over 25 years. SOME career paths won’t require an MBA. Some will. Parsing which ones- when we are talking to a HS kid who doesn’t even know what he’s interested in- seems quite ridiculous.</p>

<p>I’ve worked for companies that require a CFA for anyone looking to progress up the finance ranks. Our employees were constantly kvetching about it- “I have a Master’s in Accounting from XYZ school” or “my job won’t require half of what the CFA requires”.</p>

<p>Waste of breath. If you don’t want to study for the CFA then get a job in marketing or logistics. Same for series 7 or any of the other licensing/accrediting bodies.</p>

<p>Same for the MBA. If your company or industry or function requires it-- or if it is generally known to the be the track that future leaders of the company are on- then get an MBA. And if not, and you want to get it- then do.</p>

<p>There are no prescriptions or crystal balls that can tell a HS kid how to optimize his or her career 10 years out. And yes- I’ve hired marketing folks in CPG companies. Some companies love/require MBA’s and some don’t. Wow. That’s a revelation.</p>

<p>Harvard makes beaucoup bucks selling its cases to other institutions. It is a source of revenue for the school. It tells you nothing about the quality of an MBA that a program uses Harvard cases. It MIGHT tell you that you are attending a business school where the faculty do not develop their own case/research materials. And that might tell you something about the quality of the program-- but the presence or absence of Harvard case materials tells you nothing.</p>

<p>You can teach an HBS case and require a ton of quantitative analysis, rigorous stress-testing of the hypothesis, and really push your students to develop original ways to solve a business problem. Or you can teach the narrative and tell the story, and supply the logic, and just make the students do the calculations. The case method allows for both approaches. But the same case will teach different skills (more rigor vs. less rigor) even though it’s the same case.</p>

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<p>Take it easy, PG. I know it’s YOUR industry, but the job posting itself doesn’t say what you said as follows when they say “Master in business or marketing specialization preferred”, and that’s why I said “just by reading the job postings”…

</p>

<p>And no one said that there is an

</p>

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<p>I’m plenty calm, honest! </p>

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<p>I have a friend whose kid graduated from Harvard in Applied Math and got one of those coveted consulting jobs where the kid is supposed to move on and out to an MBA program after a few yearsw. He was a smart kid who did well and continued to move up despite the lack of MBA. He’s doing great and is still there in a fairly senior position. Yes, it’s anecdotal but nobody “needs” an MBA</p>

<p>I’m not knocking MBAs. I have one. But the single greatest predictor of success in business is to do well in whatever business you are employed in. In my experience, accomplishments matter more than education in the business world.</p>

<p>MBAs make sense for the following reasons:

  1. You graduated with a non-business degree and are now managing people and would like to learn more about that. (The MBA does not have to be only a “credential”)</p>

<ol>
<li> You’ve worked for a while and want to change industries or broaden your career options. (This is where the credential comes in.)</li>
</ol>

<p>Having read a bunch of the OP’s posts I think what he’s asking is “what does it take to get ahead.” And the answer to that is not your undergraduate or graduate degree. It’s you and your talents. While it would be wonderful to believe that getting into X school or Y degree sets you up for life. That’s not how it happens.</p>

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<p>

Everything is dependent on the person hiring you. You can have all the experience in the world and if your boss also wants you to have an MBA because he has one, he will hire someone with those experience AND with an MBA.
You may not do your hiring that way, but someone else would.Nothing is guaranteed.</p>

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<p>I think you guys are projecting out from industries where having an MBA is really important for credentials / signaling purposes and assuming that everyone values the credential that highly. This is no surprise, of course - this is how CC generally works. But, I guess what do EllieMom and I know, we’re only actually in the industry in question. </p>

<p>BTW, I went for an MBA at a top 5 b-school, have lectured at this school, have done consulting work for professors there, and have just finished doing work on a consulting project for this b-school overall, so I’m not “against” MBAs in the least. </p>

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<p>“Everything is dependent on the person hiring you. You can have all the experience in the world and if your boss also wants you to have an MBA because he has one, he will hire someone with those experience AND with an MBA.
You may not do your hiring that way, but someone else would.Nothing is guaranteed.”</p>

<p>Of course. By the same token, someone who interviews you might think elite schools are for snobs and thus be biased against people with elite school degrees. Nothing is guaranteed, so you don’t run your life trying to impress nameless / faceless others just in case.</p>

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<p>

^This. That’s why many ambitious young people go for an MBA after gaining a few years of experience and decide to stay in “business” for the long haul. They have a long way ahead and I’d encourage them to go back to school at some point and re-charge to get ready for the next big jump!</p>