Does anyone else feel like majority of transfer students here are grossly subpar??

<p>Even though anecdotal in nature, they are from educators, students, and parents. </p>

<p>“My professors gave very few A’s, a few B’s and lots of C’s and D’s. Some of these grades are rare these days. You had to work pretty hard in some courses to approach a B. Smarter? Don’t think so. Softer teachers? Hurts, but it may be so.”</p>

<p>“Easier to get good grades now, sure. It is also easier to do research. Easier to write on computers than by longhand or with typewriters, where a single revision required lengthy retyping. Photocopy and scanning technologies reduce the time needed to “take notes” from reference materials.I wish my students spent more time studying and learning, but time spent is not a measure of amount accomplished.”</p>

<p>“We expect less of college students today. The baccalaureate used to be evidence of the successful completion of a well-rounded, rigorous educational experience. In many instances, it is now a credential that is little more than an expensive high school diploma.”</p>

<p>“Some commenters above explained the drop in study time with the technological advances that make studying more efficient. I have only anecdotal evidence (from myself and many colleagues in my field) but I believe that the level of the knowledge of physics of B.Sc. graduates has dropped significantly compared with 20-30 years ago (showing a triple integral to students who only “mastered” Calculus II is a no-no in general physics classes now). Of course one might argue that students learn more about how to use technology (cellphone videos, playstations, file sharing, etc.) then in the past, and I would take it as an explanation.”</p>

<p>“So much of what I see everyday from students and others is “self-medication” with feel-good and feel-smart technology and little real substantive work or thought which is why sociologist call it the “presentation” culture …pretty and slick to look at but ….well you’ll find out when a crunch or unknown comes. No doubt that the new tools have helped many who had the requisite cognitive skills, talent, knowledge and experience to use them but most of the rest as the sorceror’s apprentice in Disney’s Fantasia with about the same level of understanding and insight. If the technology argument is correct then those who earned their PHD’s in the last 10 years should be running circles around me and my Dean should be pleading with me to take early retirement: neither is happening and in fact just the opposite. But then I unfortunately had to go to school in the 60′s at an extremely competitive place where I had to bust my butt every day and work extremely hard to keep up and work a job and play a sport to keep my scholarship. Now I am really glad that I didn’t learn to be lazy and a screw off when I was an undergraduate and learned how to attend class every day and do my academic work every night and that certain truths just don’t change; it’s not the tools that make the mind, it is the mind that makes the tools and products with the tools with a lot of hard work, sweat, ingenuity, and perservance and that old fashion word I heard throughout the late 50′s and early 60′s: HUSTLE.”</p>

<p>“When a (hypothetical) student with two Fs and a C comes in before class and pleads he needs a good grade to transfer to Giant Mega Research University, then sits through class texting and listening to an ipod, I think I know what the problem is….”</p>

<p>“I agree that the abundance of procrastination vehicles, the ease of online research, and grade inflation all contribute here. As a student, I must also throw in my opinion that the rigidity of traditional education, the monotony of listening to a professor who thinks he knows the answer to everything and perhaps doesn’t really want to be there, and the frustration of having to fit all of our passions and dreams into the neat little degree sheets and mountains of other forms that make our administrators’ lives easier are all quite off-putting and disheartening. I think hard work and inspiration are certainly lacking in the classroom, but not just because of the students. Yes, perhaps we should expect more of students, but you should know that we are also expecting more from our professors.”</p>

<p>“”Study time fell for students from all demographic subgroups, within race, gender, ability, and family background, overall and within major, for students who worked in college and for those who did not, and the declines occurred at 4-year colleges of every type, size, degree structure, and level of selectivity.” The chart with the gender breakdowns shows a very slight difference. In 2003, women studied an average of 14.82 hours per week and males an average of 13.64. It was up around 25 hours a week for both men and women in 1961.”</p>

<p>I don’t see what the big deal about weeders is. I mean sure my Physics 7C class is really difficult, and juniors and seniors, are ruining exam curves, but it doesn’t make any sense at all to force people to take courses they’ve already taken again. I’ve had to do that way too many times already in my education for no reason, I can’t imagine making other people do it because of resentment.</p>

<p>I took a CCC course last year that passed me out of Chem 1A, it was one of the more difficult CCC courses that I’ve taken, but that being said it was still really easy. That doesn’t mean I should have to take a class that covers the same material, maybe a little more, again.</p>

<p>Personally, I would not want to be in the situation where I took most of my lower div courses at a less rigorous level, and I think that is punishment enough. No need to make transfers have to take courses that aren’t satisfactorily difficult enough, just to make them retake it.</p>

<p>Weeders aren’t some rite of passage for college, they just require more effort, and personally it is much more fun to do really well in a huge class where everyone else is struggling. And from my experience in 7C it is not much fun being on the other side of that, but that doesn’t make me resent transfers, that only makes me resent choosing to take it this year, lol.</p>

<p>Here are two other Edu articles about a Facebook study and another on priv vs public grade inflation…</p>

<p>For college students spending too much time on Facebook, the results will show on your report cards, according to a new study conducted at Ohio State University.</p>

<p>The study’s co-author, Aryn Karpinski, clarifies that there are “many third variables that need to be studied,” but defends that a relationship does exist. Her study found that students who use Facebook tend to have GPAs in the 3.0-3.5 range and study one to five hours each week, while those who do not use Facebook have GPAs in the 3.5-4.0 range and study 11 to 15 hours each week.</p>

<p>She says Facebook might not be the guilty party, that this could be an indicator that students who in general study less and enjoy their free time will see a hit to their grades. The study also found that those who have jobs spend less time on Facebook, whereas those involved in more social activities and organizations are active on Facebook.</p>

<p>With a reported 85% of undergrads killing time on the social site (look at Amherst College where 99% of their freshman class is on Facebook), there are bound to be more studies like this one, and a deeper look at the correlations found in this one.</p>

<p>Karpinski said in an interview with LiveScience “They’re very territorial about their Facebook,” when she mentioned students quickly defended their use of the social site.</p>

<hr>

<p>A recent study showed that students who attended private colleges had higher grade point averages than those of public school students.</p>

<p>According to a study by Stuart Rojstaczer, of Duke University, and Christopher Healy, of Furman University, the average private college GPA is 3.3 while the average public college GPA is 3.0. Rojstaczer and Healy based the study on current grading data they had compiled from 160 schools.</p>

<p>Researchers suggest that laid-back grading standards may be the cause of why private school students have higher GPAs. This could also explain why privately-schooled students are over-admitted into top business, medical, law schools and certain Ph.D. programs. Higher GPAs mean a better chance at admission, and admittance officials may be fooled by private schools’ lax grading systems.</p>

<p>The study also found that over that past 60 years, GPAs have increased roughly 0.1 points per decade. In the 1950s the national average was 2.52, and by the middle of the last decade it had risen to 3.11. In addition to increased grades, the study found that within science departments,students received on average 0.2 points lower than that of social sciences and 0.4 lower than that of humanities. The harsher science grading scale has proven to be the standard for the past 40 years, according to the study.</p>

<p>This could help explain why American students are discouraged from taking science disciplines, Rojstaczer and Healy argue. With a lack of American students going into these fields, the U.S. is heavily relying on foreign-born students to go into technological and research fields.</p>

<p>These grade inflation trends will likely continue to be the norm for the U.S. As long as schools think that giving higher GPAs gives alumni the upper-hand, there will be a lack of incentive to implement stricter grading standards.</p>

<p>Here is an article written by a female from the NE. Many of us that grew up in the NE have huge respect for California education but have a hard time relating to the **** poor attitude towards education many of us find here with a great many students. </p>

<p>As a junior in my high school days, I knew I wanted a less traditional path into the intimidating world of college. Unlike many of my friends, I opted out of the cold Northeast and applied only to schools located in the warm California sunshine. But upon receipt of my first semester out-of-state tuition bill from University of California Santa Barbara, I chose to begin my college journey at Santa Barbara City College instead, making life a bit easier on my family’s pocketbook, and then to transfer to a four-year school. Choosing whether to attend community college or a university right out of high school is an option worth considering.</p>

<p>Here are some pros and cons:
The transition from high school to a community college is easier, but you miss out on all the dorm life, which can be a stepping stone to your entire social network. Universities offer sports, Greek life, and bonding with fellow collegians right out of the gates. The connections you make as a freshman can often be lifelong friendships. It’s not to say that can’t happen in a community college environment, but living in a dorm is a bonding experience that a community college simply can’t duplicate.</p>

<p>Community college will put less of a dent in your college fund, assuming you have one. Accomplishing a significant chunk of required course material for a portion of the cost makes sense, as most general education coursework that a university requires of its freshmen and sophomores can be taken at a community college. University tuition costs vary depending upon whether they are public or private, but are vastly more expensive.</p>

<p>Community colleges have fewer students per class, which generally means more student/teacher interaction, great for students who like to ask questions. Universities usually have massive auditoriums full of a few hundred students, making it nearly impossible to compete for the professor’s office hours.</p>

<p>At any school there are the amazing instructors and the awful ones. There can be amazing instructors at a community college because they actually want to teach, and be involved with, their students. I’ve had university professors so consumed with their research that their TAs did the majority of the teaching. But I’ve also had university professors who obviously went into their chosen field because of the enjoyment they get from standing in classroom explaining their ideas to students.</p>

<p>Community colleges offer Associate’s of Arts degrees, and unfortunately nothing higher. It can be a bridge to a university where you can obtain a Bachelor’s degrees, Master’s degrees and Doctorates. The path you take to get that degree is completely up to you.</p>

<p>****I also agree with Ramblinman about having to take take classes just for the sake of taking them. California did not accept any of my college units outside of California nor did they accept my HS transcript when I went to a quality HS when standards were more stringent. Due to that I was forced to take 4 years of high school classes all over again because CCC is under the umbrella and yoked with the k-12 system here essentially making it a k-14 system. Now I have to deal with the snooty attitude that I must be stupid or lazy because went to a CCC when I have been studying grad level work since a teenager.</p>

<p>According to UCB’s Undergrad Success and Progress Rate which monitors matriculation:</p>

<p>The % of First Time Freshman’s to graduate in 4 years was 91%</p>

<p>The % of First Time Freshman to graduate in 6 years was 92%</p>

<p>The % of First Time Transfers to graduate in 2 years was 81%</p>

<p>The % of First Time Transfers to graduate in 4 years was 92%</p>

<p>Conclusion: First Time Freshman at UCB graduated with a 10% higher matriculation rate than Transfers within 4 years worth of study. </p>

<p>Freshman and Transfers that needed 2 extra years each to graduate are statistically even</p>

<p>2008-9 Average time to complete degree
First Time Freshman: 4 years or 7.99 enrolled semesters
New Transfers: 2.2 years or 4.4 enrolled semesters</p>

<p>Conclusion: Transfers took on average about the equivalent of roughly 7 weeks longer than Freshman to graduate</p>

<p>2008 numbers:</p>

<p>Freshman:
Applied: 48,461
Admitted: 10,474
Enrolled: 4,261</p>

<p>Transfers:
Applied: 12,371
Admitted: 3,232
Enrolled: 2,012</p>

<p>On a lighter note…here is amusing story I wasn’t aware of. Do I blame ‘Bush’ for his no child left behind program. NO. I blame backwards parents and their brainwashed spawn trying to inject religious dogmas into public education. It’s been a major problem over the last decade which I think has contributed to the dumbing down of public school classrooms. Public college IMHO should not be funding religious denominations on any campus yet have seen a tenfold increase in the last decade of Muslim AND Christian groups using student and public funds and tax dollars to feed and clothe themselves behind the guise of their dogmatic belief systems. Although I am a determinist and semi agnostic I do not condone such practices nor do I think they bring value to a public school campus.</p>

<p>The University of California at Berkeley is being sued for statements on their Understanding Evolution Web site that some religious beliefs contradict science–like the idea that the Earth and living things were finished up in six days. The plaintiffs argue that a government-funded state university cannot claim that “some religious denominations are better than others,” though I certainly can’t find anyplace where Berkeley does so.</p>

<p>Can they be serious, this a University of California and they are still trying to debunk evolution!</p>

<p>I suppose next under the gun will be NASA for its estimate that the universe is 13.7 billion years old, or the US Geological Survey for finding the age of the Earth to be a potentially unholy 4.5 billion years…</p>

<p>the GPA requirements for transfer students are lower because they have experience in COLLEGE material. a 4.0 is high school is not as impressive as 3.5 or even a 3.0 in college material.</p>

<p>

That would depend on which high schools. 4.0 in the top 10% of high schools is more impressive, IMHO.</p>

<p>@snogonthis </p>

<p>Not true.</p>

<p>I went to a high school near De Anza college (one of the best community colleges in the state) and people took as many classes as possible at De Anza instead of the high school because it was so much easier to get As there. AP classes at least were much much more difficult than the “equivalent” De Anza courses. You had to be extremely smart and hard working to pull off a 3.8 at my high school, but you had to try in order to get lower than a 4.0 at De Anza. </p>

<p>My mom (who has barely lived in this country and has not worked in 20 years) took some De Anza classes because she was bored at home and ended up getting As/A+s in all of them. And this is the “best” community college that has the highest UC transfer rate?</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>this is wrong.</p>

<p>^^ MV? </p>

<p>I also went to said high school as flutterfly, I think. I only took core classes that can transfer to UC and had a 4.0 at De Anza. However, I wasn’t even top 10% of my HS…</p>

<p>Community Colleges courses are the easier classes I’ve ever taken. It’s hard to compare difficulty between CC and HS due to the difference in quality. So let’s not make generalizations…</p>

<p>There are about 20,000 US high schools and 15 million high school students.</p>

<p>There are two taboo factors for the unprecedented raise in overall GPA that people don’t want to touch and parents, administrators, students, and politicians are all in on it: </p>

<p>Gerrymandering and Cheating</p>

<p>April 13, 2010 </p>

<p>The pressure to cheat has always been prominent in everyday life in a high, school; incentives to cheat range from good grades, nagging parents, or to get into that college of choice, students are willing to do what ever it takes to get an A.</p>

<p>According to the website [ETS</a> Home](<a href=“http://www.nocheating.org%5DETS”>http://www.nocheating.org), 73 % of all test takers and teachers agree that most students do end up cheating at some point and 86 % of high school students agree that many students eventually cheat on exams and school work.</p>

<p>Statistics show that cheating among high school students has risen dramatically during the past fifty years. A 2005 Duke University study found that 75% of high school students admit to cheating, and if you include copying another person’s homework, that number climbs to 90%.</p>

<p>In the past, struggling students were most likely to cheat just to get by, but today it is also the above-average college bound students who are cheating as well. Students who do cheat often feel justified in what they are doing. They see others cheat and it puts them at an unfair disadvantage. The cheaters could be getting 100% on an exam, while the non-cheaters may only get 90%.</p>

<p>The staff here at San Ramon is very aware that cheating amongst students is a fairly common place. Some teachers believe that cheating is inevitable. Mrs. Budhabhatti explains how she cannot watch every student at all times so she creates several versions of her test to avoid having people cheat off others. Mrs. Budhabhatti described that students cheat because they are not prepared for the test or “they think it’s easier to cheat rather than to work hard.” She later adds that “if every student knows how to study for a test, [the] cheating [rate] may go down” and that “it’s never too late to stop.”</p>

<p>There are many forms of cheating such as plagiarism, copying other students work, fabrication of data and using unauthorized sources or notes for answers. Here at San Ramon the consequences of any from of cheating are to have a parent contacted and an F on the assignment on the first offense. The second offense is having the student dropped from the course with the semester grade as an F.</p>

<p>So why do students cheat? The most common answer is that “Everybody does it.” This change in perception poses a significant challenge for those who seek to establish academic integrity in a school environment since the “student code” is difficult to break. Mr. Gary J. Niels, Head of Winchester Thurston School and author of a paper entitled, Academic Practices, School Culture and Cheating Behavior, believes that cheating in many cases is caused by a student’s desire to “save face.” Niels writes that, “saving face can mean a desire to save oneself from the angry assault of a parent or teacher; it can mean avoiding embarrassment; it can mean economic survival or a perceived pressure be it self-inflicted or inflicted by some other extraneous force.” Thus, cheating may be viewed by some as survival to get an “acceptable” grade.</p>

<p>On top of saving face students may be tempted to cheat when a lesson or course meaningless or has no relevance to their lives. Niels also states that students might also cheat because they think a test or teacher is unfair, so they feel justified in cheating. Finally cheating can be an easy way out of time and hard work to achieve a desired grade.</p>

<p>Many students believe that cheating will not affect anyone else. However, cheating in high school can lead to cheating later in life in college and the workplace. Resume fraud is a growing problem for employers as well as employee dishonesty. How can we prevent cheating? It may be as simple as modeling integrity. If more students adopt a moral policy of not cheating others may take note. Perhaps the new 7 period class will assist students when they have a problem in understanding a lesson and make them less likely to cheat. Helping students and their parents understand the pressures students face may also help stem the tide of cheating.</p>

<p>123456789bc The numbers posted are directly from UC Berkeley as stated.</p>

<p>Monta Vista and the Cupertino tri school district including De Anza is a huge number playing racket to attract wealthy foreigners to live here. Punishment for cheating is practically nil and extremely rampant.</p>

<p>Underneath the exterior of the pleasant brick-lined halls of MVHS, there is a trade brewing, fueled by students’ thirst for high grades. Knowledge and aid are exchanged for good will and help as problems are discussed and mistakes reviewed. But this passing of knowledge is far less innocent than the casual tutoring—in fact, it is a black market in itself where connections make all the difference. It seems that the boost of caffeine-fueled cram sessions just aren’t enough when all one has to do is ask a TA friend for “help.”</p>

<p>It’s the common solution for an empty period—sign up to be a Teacher Assistant for a well-liked teacher and receive course credit just for grading homework occasionally and sleeping, studying, or doing nothing for the rest of the time. But it seems that TAs may receive more of an edge than the easy credit—with access to gradebooks and peers’ homework, they often have the power to manipulate the system and give their friends an advantage.</p>

<p>“Basically the teacher put the system into place and I exploited it,” Victor Lam* said. “I found a loophole.”</p>

<p>Last year, Lam TA-ed for a history class. Given by the teacher the password to the electronic gradebook, Lam had access to the grades of students in all of the teacher’s classes. He was given as much responsibility from grading tests to printing out six-week progress reports and sending them to the office. Towards the end of each semester, his friends began to approach him asking him to change their grades.</p>

<p>“They had borderline grades and wanted a cushion going into the finals,” Lam explained. So if they said they needed a certain percentage, like they had an 88 percent and wanted a 90, I’d add a point to every test or assignment or give them credit for things they forgot to turn in and that would add up. You can barely notice it.”</p>

<p>Though Lam first changed his friends’ grades as a “favor” to them, soon other people began to ask him and offered to pay him money as word got around. He estimates that he earned about 60 dollars in total from his “favors,” changing the grades of at least ten people.</p>

<p>While such control of the gradebook is unusual for a TA to have, TAs in other classes find different ways to help their friends cheat by grading easier or passing inside information on quizzes. “It’s so widespread, that I wouldn’t consider it cheating,” Lam shrugged. “Basically half of my friends who are TAs do this. It’s like a bartering system. If there’s someone who’s a TA for math, he’ll say to someone TA-ing in chemistry, ‘I’ll trade you math stuff for chem stuff.’”</p>

<p>Last year, Rahul Singh* received copies of Spanish tests beforehand from his friend who TA-ed for a Spanish teacher. “He’s an all-rounder kind of guy,” Singh said, almost with a note of admiration. “He would take pictures of math tests with his cell phone and as a TA, he would go through trash cans when the teacher asked him to recycle stuff or gave him packets.”</p>

<p>When Singh’s friend found tests, he photocopied them and sold them for five dollars each. Singh received copies of five tests and the final last year. “He gave me a pretty good discount,” Singh remembered. “I got the final for just three dollars. I think he’s still selling the tests this year.”</p>

<p>Singh guesses that his friend had at least half of the second semester tests. Although his friend did not TA for the same teacher Singh had for Spanish, the tests used by the Spanish teachers were the same tests from the book. Singh estimates that the dishonestly obtained tests boosted his grade five to eight percent.</p>

<p>With such rampant unethical behavior going on, it’s a surprise that the cheating is not caught by teachers. While Assistant Principal Brad Metheany said that students have been caught in the past and punished accordingly, for the most part, he said, “Teachers are very conscious of protecting grades.”</p>

<p>However, Lam said that his chances of getting caught were “next to none.”</p>

<p>Similarly, Veronica Tranh*, a math TA who gives points to her friends when they don’t turn in homework, said her risk of getting caught is “like zero.”</p>

<p>While much of the blame for the cheating can be laid on students, it seems that teachers must accept responsibility as well. “According to the California Education Code, teachers are not allowed to have students grade homework or access the gradebook,” Metheany said. “It’s against the law. If I see teachers doing that, I remind them of their professional responsibilities.”</p>

<p>If a TA is discovered to be cheating, they are dropped from the class and given a F. In addition, when the Administration writes college recommendations for the student, the Administration must comment on the incident. However these harsh penalties don’t seem to resound with the TAs who are confident of not getting caught.</p>

<p>“I think teachers should be more cautious,” Ernest Miller* said. “They give TAs too much responsibility. Of course people are going to tempted to cheat.”</p>

<p>Last year Miller TA-ed for a math teacher and graded homework and tests, entered in grades, and even wrote tests. Though he says he did not cheat, he was accused of doing so. “There was a TA in another period who had access to the tests and began selling them,” Miller said. “When the teacher heard the rumors, he thought it was me and confronted me about it. I told him I didn’t do it, but it took a long time for him to believe me and trust me again.”</p>

<p>Though most teachers check over the work that their TAs do, most do not check every single thing. “I will usually sample randomly,” math teacher Ed Puccinelli said. “For the most part, I trust them to do the job right.”</p>

<p>Although the only school rules for accepting TAs are that the student must be approved by the department chair and the teacher, some teachers have their own guidelines.</p>

<p>Math teacher Martin Jennings ensures that the TAs he takes on are students who he has “a degree of trust in and confidence in their integrity and competence,” usually translating to the fact that they must have had him for a class before. He allows his TAs to mark papers and tests, record homework and run errands, but draws the line at letting them take attendance or do grades.</p>

<p>Social studies teacher Ben Recktenwald does not allow students enrolled in his classes to TA for him. “It just seems that if they TA for me second period and have me fourth period, they could see the tests and use that to their advantage,” he said.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, this speculation of cheating methods is one of the shocking realities. Russ Chen* who TAs along with another student for a science class often sees his fellow TA, who has the teacher in another period, take copies of tests for his own use. “Usually, the teacher will deliberately give me the tests to make copies of,” Chen said. “But [the other TA] will find ways to see the answers.”</p>

<p>Another student, Lauren Ju*, has witnessed a similar incident in her social studies class. “It was FRQ [Free Response Question] day,” Ju remembered. “And the period before had just finished taking it. One of the FRQs had fallen on the floor and the TA who had just walked in casually picked it up and walked out. The teacher was at the desk so he didn’t see. Then a minute later, the TA walked back in without the test in his hand. I guess he put it in his backpack.”</p>

<p>While it would seem that the line between right and wrong would be clear, even the definition of “cheating” is murky. When asked if he has ever cheated academically, Lam confidently answers “no,” not considering helping people cheat as actual cheating.</p>

<p>“Sure, it’s unfair, but isn’t life unfair?” Lam said. “In life, if you know people who can hook you up with a job, of course you would want to take advantage of that. It’s the same thing. In the class, there would be people taking the test with textbooks under their desks. So it’s just fair game, you know?”</p>

<p>However, Lam is not without his own reservations about “helping” people. “This guy who ditched class 3 to 4 days a week asked me to change their grade and I flat out said no,” Lam said. “It was more possible for me to get caught and not only that, I personally don’t like people who don’t try.” Lam said that the most he is willing to change a grade is two percent, saying that “one to two percent means they are at least working hard to try to get the grade. But if they need 10 percent, then they’re not putting in an effort.”</p>

<p>Tranh approaches her cheating similarly. “The teacher gives everyone two points on the math homework, so it’s not a big deal if I give them the points. If it was more, I’d feel bad and then the people would say, ‘I don’t want to study.’”</p>

<p>Though Tranh has no qualms about giving unmerited points, she says she would not ask the same of her friends. “I just study hard,” she said. “I wouldn’t get help like that because it’s wrong.” After a pause she said, “Well, I guess giving my friends the points is wrong too.”</p>

<p>Singh gives his reason for using stolen tests as, “I had other priorities. If I wanted to, I could have studied and gotten the grade since the tests are extremely easy, but the copies saved me time so I could focus on other things. The class had no importance to the subject. If I wanted to pursue Spanish in life, I’d have to take an advanced class outside of school.”</p>

<p>It is explanations like these that are disregarded by Metheany as meaningless. “People can justify anything they do in life, but they know right from wrong. They’re not little kids anymore,” Metheany said. “That’s not a friend who says ‘Help me out here’ and expects a friend to do that.”</p>

<p>Amongst the widespread cheating that occurs, there are some who agree with Metheany. Upon asking senior David Guan, a TA for science teacher Travis Hambleton, if he has ever been asked to help people cheat, he replied, “Of course” as if it were only a fact of the job.</p>

<p>“They come up to me and say ‘Give me extra points!’” Guan said. “They do it jokingly, but you can tell they want it. I think lower of them after that.”</p>

<p>Though Guan said that if he were to attempt to cheat, his chances of getting caught would not be very high, he said, “I’m not going to cheat. Hambleton’s a nice guy. I’d feel like I was breaking his trust.”</p>

<p>Similarly, senior Dheeraj Srinivasan who TAs for ______ is often approached by students with less than respectable motives. “A lot of sophomores and freshmen in the class come up to me,” he said. ‘They ask, ‘Why don’t you give me an A?’ and I tell them, ‘No, you earn your grade. It’s not my fault you don’t have a good grade. There’s even extra help offered after school.’”</p>

<p>“The teachers base their trust in TAs,” Srinivasan said. “I’d feel guilty and ashamed and if I were to do that.”</p>

<p>Not only does Srinivasan deem the cheating wrong from the TA viewpoint, he said of asking TAs to change grades, “It might help you in high school, but you can’t cheat your way through life. In jobs and work, you’ll be asked to solve problems yourself and what are you going to do if you don’t know? Ask a TA for help?”</p>

<p>Last year, Jocelyn Lo* had a C in math and found herself faced with an intimidating moral decision when finals came around. “I was complaining that I had a C and this girl said to me, ‘Oh don’t worry about it! My best friend TAs for that teacher. She can change your grade.’ And I was like, ‘Oh my God, this is really tempting, but it’s so immoral.’”</p>

<p>Despite the enticing idea of an easy way out, Lo did not take up the offer. Instead, she worked to get a good grade on the final and raise her grade. However, though she did not accept the offer, she said, “Basically, I was motivated to study hard so I wouldn’t have to be in that situation and be tempted. I’m afraid of what I would have done if I hadn’t gotten that B.”</p>

<p>Lo speculates that if she had gotten the TA to change her grade, “I wouldn’t feel good about it, but I’d probably be relieved. I feel that it’s taken for granted now that someone will cheat. It’s so prevalent that not cheating has become a disadvantage. It’s more about college than the means of getting there. If you don’t cheat, you don’t end up at the top.”</p>

<p>It seems that this sentiment is shared by most of the students. Asked if they felt guilty for rendering grades, Tranh responded with “a little,” while Lam returned “not really.”</p>

<p>Meanwhile, on the teacher side cheating is taken far more seriously, even beyond thoughts of consequences and morals. It is taken personally. “It would definitely hurt me if one of my TAs were to cheat,” Jennings said. “It’s a violation of trust."</p>

<p>However, it seems that thoughts like these are only to be brushed aside by TAs. “Yeah, I went to go visit [the teacher] this year and he was really happy to see me,” Lam said. “I like him. But when the teacher sets it up for you like that, he’s basically asking you to beat the system.”</p>

<p>*the identities of these sources have been changed</p>

<p>Kmazza, I would like to respond to your posts but I don’t have the time. Suffice it to say that a majority of the information you have provided is useless, out of context, or has some major flaws (comparing transfer and freshmen graduation rates is an example). Most of your posts in this thread don’t even pertain to the topic being debated. Sorry to be blunt and I hope someone else can show you why you’re incorrect.</p>

<p>I’ve already mentioned in this thread and others how De Anza gives out A’s to C students in GE classes. They have been playing this number game for the past 8 years competing with other CCC’s in transfer numbers. De Anza has become a diploma mill and while the teaching quality is good, the standards of academic integrity and honesty is atrocious. Its become all about $$$ and transfer #'s.</p>

<p>An excerpt from the book entitled Under Pressure: Rescuing Childhood from the Culture of Hyper-Parenting publish in 2008.</p>

<p>“At Monta Vista, a hard-driving high school in California, the number of students who CONFESSED in a secret poll to CHEATING on quizzes, tests, and final exams DOUBLED between 1996-2006” Rumor has it that number is increasing yearly.</p>

<p>^And the point of that quote is…?</p>

<p>The point is I’ve come to expect mediocre reading comprehension skills and a capacity for critical reasoning by MVHS and DA students such as yourself.</p>

<p>Any other questions pertinent to this thread or topical issue at hand?</p>

<p>Yes…how inept are you exactly?</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/998992-chance-ccc-transfer-ucsb.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/998992-chance-ccc-transfer-ucsb.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>That’s quite a “rigorous” course load that you’ve taken. It’s humorous that even with all these softball classes, you still can’t even break a 3.6 UC GPA (and no, i don’t care that you took 21 units of photography…even though i bet it was quite a challenge for you). So how inept exactly? :D</p>

<p>Those are primarily GE breadth courses which are either considered survey courses or specific. I have about 90 more units of computer science and technology oriented courses. I also really enjoyed photography and learned a lot but I actually study. So where is your refute for the numbers posted from UCB since you seem to have time?</p>

<p>The reason I studied photography was two fold. Chemical processes, exposure latitude and learning all the film stock for past 100 years. This helps me in preservation and for cinematography purposes.</p>

<p>The other is more scientific including the nature of light, color, and optics since I’m trained to take pictures of the earth and space.</p>