Does anyone else find Haas decisions ridiculous?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of California - Berkeley
1

<p>Ridiculous in the sense that it's so easy for transfer students to get in? I'm not a bitter Haas reject, but I just find it rather... sad for Cal students who got rejected.</p>

<p>For a high school student applicant who wants to get into Haas, he/she must be admitted into Cal first. After being admitted to Cal, he/she has to get accepted into Haas. This entails taking courses with other Cal students.</p>

<p>For a transfer student applicant, he/she doesn't have to get admitted into Cal first. Furthermore, the pre-requisite courses are almost always harder at Cal than at community colleges.</p>

2

<p>Both the absolute number of transfer admits and the acceptance rate for transfers are significantly lower than they are for Cal students who entered as freshmen.</p>

3

<p>Yea I would not call a 7% acceptance rate to Haas for transfers an advantage.</p>

4

<p>22% if you only consider the applicants who meet the requirements.</p>

5

<p>Getting into Berkeley as a freshman admit = ~25% acceptance rate.
Getting into Haas as a continuing Berkeley student = ~50% acceptance rate.
For a freshman admit, the acceptance rate into Haas is around 12.5%.</p>

<p>For a transfer student, however, the acceptance rate is 22% for those who meet the requirements. Most transfers are rejected because they "did not show planned completion of the admission requirements and were considered ineligible."</p>

<p>Let's not forget to take into account the different applicant pools. That 12.5% acceptance rate for freshman admits into Haas is a product of freshman admission and Haas admission. The freshman admission applicant pool is, on average, way more competitive than the transfer applicant pool since SAT's and other selection factors (ELC, etc.) are not even taken into account. In addition, the Haas applicant pool for continuing students is also, on average, more competitive than its transfer counterpart. The main factor contributing to this is the harder courses at Berkeley.</p>

<p>So, at the end of the day, freshman admits trying to get into Haas have to jump through 2 hurdles: getting into Berkeley and then getting into Haas. The first hurdle is difficult, while the second is even more so, because the competition is between fellow Berkeley students. On the other hand, transfer students only go through 1 admission process, competing with other CC students (who are, on average, not as competitive as Berkeley students).</p>

<p>I'm not saying that CC students don't deserve spaces in competitive programs at Berkeley, but why are so many spaces reserved for them? For 2007-2008, the entering class is composed of 93 transfer students and 258 continuing students. Does it not seem a bit unfair that more than a quarter of the Haas students are transfer students while about 230 continuing students are turned away from the school?</p>

6

<p>More than a third tastybeef. </p>

<p>But one thing we should note is that not all Cal students who apply to Haas are competitive if they are even eligible. Perhaps they were not very serious about applying to Haas and htat was not their intent as an incoming freshman.</p>

<p>Just something to note.</p>

7

<p>All the students who get into Haas as transfers would have gotten into Berkeley as some other major if they weren't allowed to transfer to Haas. They would be Berkeley students too, just not allowed to enter Haas. They take a huge risk applying to Haas, since if they don't get into Haas, they are shut out from Berkeley. So lots of students are rejected from Haas, but could have gotten into Berkeley if they had picked another major. The sophomores applying to Haas have the luxury of applying to Haas, being rejected, and then continuing on in another major. They have it much easier.</p>

<p>Essentially you are complaining about the transfer system. You think that people who enter as freshman are "real" students and deserve everything while people who enter as transfers are somehow lesser. </p>

<p>The transfer system isn't going to change. The whole California educational system is set up that way, with some students entering CSU and UC schools as freshman, others going to community college and then transferring. That structure is not going to change. Keeping that structure in mind, I think the system is completely fair and reasonable.</p>

<p>If you think the transfer system is unfair, well, a lot of people like to pretend they are somehow better than other people, even if they aren't. It just makes them feel good to put others down or classify others as lower than they are.</p>

8

<p>Your 12.5% acceptance rate number assumes every student at Cal wants to get into Haas.</p>

9

<p>kenf1234
I think you've made a great point!
I am a transfer student accepted by Berkeley, but I applied to Econ instead of Hass. Now I regret I didn't pick Hass because of lack of confidence.</p>

10

<p>
[Quote]
The transfer system isn't going to change. The whole California educational system is set up that way, with some students entering CSU and UC schools as freshman, others going to community college and then transferring. That structure is not going to change. Keeping that structure in mind, I think the system is completely fair and reasonable.

[/Quote]

kenf1234, your argument is nonsensical.
The fact that the transfer system is currently in place and is not going to change does not mean that it's fair and reasonable.</p>

<p>
[Quote]
Essentially you are complaining about the transfer system. You think that people who enter as freshman are "real" students and deserve everything while people who enter as transfers are somehow lesser.

[/Quote]

Obviously tastybeef was venting, but he also stated what he believed to be factual data to support his case of admission based on meritocracy.</p>

<p>
[Quote]
If you think the transfer system is unfair, well, a lot of people like to pretend they are somehow better than other people, even if they aren't. It just makes them feel good to put others down or classify others as lower than they are.

[/Quote]

Your sentences are not readily comprehensible, but I'm guessing that you meant because of their superiority complex, people, like tastybeef, think that the transfer system is unfair. Well, your argument, if there is one, is no better than the pro-affirmative action side accusing the anti-affirmative side of being racist.</p>

<p>
[Quote]
But one thing we should note is that not all Cal students who apply to Haas are competitive if they are even eligible. Perhaps they were not very serious about applying to Haas and htat was not their intent as an incoming freshman.

[/Quote]

liquidmetal, this may not be true. I think most students who end up applying to Haas are fairly competitive since they know the published admission statistics and are therefore more self-selective. </p>

<p>Fairness aside, there is little doubt that transfer students and continuing students are facing two different sets of academic standard.</p>

11

<p>I find the admission decision is ridiculus in a way that the smartest and the most hard-working students got rejected. The school prefers fools this year .............
That is the experience I got in my college, and I am not confronting anyone here</p>

12

<p>sunfish, I am sorry what I write is so hard to understand and that I am so nonsensical. I will try better next time.</p>

<p>All I can say is, any incoming freshmen who think they have a better shot at Haas via transfer, are free to go to CC for two years and try their luck. It's perfectly fair, since that option is open to EVERYONE. So I encourage those people to try it, and I hope they enjoy their time at UCLA.</p>

13

<p>liquidmetal,
I think the vast majority of the students who apply to Haas intended to do so. No one really goes out of his/her way to take Stats 20/21, UGBA 10, and all the random requirements for fun.</p>

<p>kenf1234,
It seems that you are labeling Haas transfer admits as top applicants who are capable of getting into any major but take significant risks by applying to Haas. This is not true. Transfer admission is done by major/department, so a Haas admit is not guaranteed to get into ANY major he/she desires. As a case in point, would the department of MechE admit a student with coursework geared for Haas? No.</p>

<p>I don't know if I can agree with your statement that continuing students have it "much easier." The risk for a continuing student is not getting into Haas, while the risk for a transfer student is not getting into Berkeley. This is a valid point, but consider this: transfer students who do not get into Berkeley can choose to major in business at other schools that they have applied to. Can continuing students who are rejected from Haas do this? No, these continuing students are essentially not allowed to pursue an education that they desire whereas transfer students have other options to study the material they so desire. </p>

<p>Also, you are under the impression that I think lowly of transfer students while I'm simply sympathizing with the continuing students who are turned down by Haas to make room for transfer students. And as sunfish pointed out, you can accuse me of having a superiority complex and I can accuse you of having an inferiority complex. In the end, it's just an ad hominem argument.</p>

<p>nuveen,
The 12.5% acceptance rate does NOT assume everyone wants to get into Haas. To apply to Haas as a continuing student, you must be a Berkeley student first. That's a 25% acceptance rate. Then, out of those who get accepted as Berkeley students and subsequently apply to Haas, only 50% gets admitted. That's roughly 12.5%. And I'd contend that this is a generous figure, since self-selection exists in the Haas admission process, as with any other admissions.</p>

14

<p>
[quote]
No, a continuing student is essentially not allowed to pursue an education that he/she desires where transfer students have other options to study the material they so desire.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>They can transfer to SJSU or SFSU as a business major. Apply to transfer at the same time they apply to Haas. UCLA Biz/Econ and UCI too and wherever else.</p>

<p>
[quote]
And as sunfish pointed out, you can accuse me of having a superiority complex and I can accuse you of having an inferiority complex. In the end, it's just an ad hominem argument.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, since I'm not a transfer student, and never was, it would be silly to accuse me of having an inferiority complex. You can state the obvious, that I engaged in an ad hominem arguemnt. You can also accuse me of being nasty, which I wouldn't deny. ;-)</p>

15

<p>What seems ridiculous is complaining or arguing about it from either side. You're opinion aside, I think the admissions people have probably tweaked the number of spots availible to transfers to a number that ensures they are at least as solid academically as the Cal sophmores. I think we would be wise to assume they know what they're doing. Ultimately, if you busted your ass, you're in one way or the other (although, it seems to me that there's more cetainty for the Cal sophmores).</p>

16

<p>Most of the people that don't get into Haas as Berkeley freshman admits probably aren't close to perfect as you think.</p>

17

<p>kenf1234,
Let's be honest here, how well-geared for transferring is the Berkeley curriculum? It's not at all. CC course credits are made to transfer to UC's whereas UC course credits are not made for intercampus transfer. So, obviously, Haas intended freshman admits are not going to apply for business programs at other schools.</p>

<p>cnat,
And most of the people who get into Haas as transfer students aren't as academically strong as some would believe. The transfer students took easier pre-requisite courses and did not have to take standardized exams for admission. The admission process is much less stringent for transfer students.</p>

18

<p>
[quote]
CC course credits are made to transfer to UC's whereas UC course credits are not made for intercampus transfer. So, obviously, Haas intended freshman admits are not going to apply for business programs at other schools.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That's silly. People transfer UC to UC, UC to CSU all the time. People at CSUs take UC classes and vice versa through concurrent enrollment agreements, etc.</p>

19

<p>
[quote]
And most of the people who get into Haas as transfer students aren't as academically strong as some would believe. The transfer students took easier pre-requisite courses and did not have to take standardized exams for admission. The admission process is much less stringent for transfer students.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I think the data that really matters are the median grades of Hass transfers vs those who started out as Cal freshmen.</p>

20

<p>kenf1234,
Erm, no. Look on assist.org, how many transfer agreements from Berkeley to the schools you mentioned before actually exists? Don't be afraid to open up the few agreement contracts for Business Administration that actually exist, because what you find there is that 99% of the courses have no articulation.</p>

<p>You also seem to be under the false impression that transferring from UC/CSU to another UC is quite common while it is not. In addition to that, CC transfers get highest priority, which makes transferring for freshman admits even less feasible.</p>

<p>student14x,
On the contrary, I think many people would argue that a comparison of grades between Haas transfers and those who started out as Cal freshman is pointless. To compare the grades of the two different applicant pools is to assume that the difficulty of getting those grades are comparable. Let's be honest here, is that really the case? From what I've gathered, no. I haven't found a CC that people claim to be more difficult than Cal.</p>