<p>I realize that anyone who applies to the school should realize how difficult it is to get into out of state but i think it would be extremely helpful. I, personally, completely wasted my time by applying and think I would have avioded this mistake had I seen the oos stats. It would be helpful to both prospective students who want to make an educated decsion regarding were they chose to apply and the admission board by cutting down the number of never in a milliion years applicants.</p>
<p>i dont think the school would ever do it - i think you'd see theres a pretty big disparity (100+ points) within SAT scores.</p>
<p>what are some of the stats for OOS? im OOS...great...</p>
<p>
Don't quote me on this but from what I've looked at the GPAs run from like a minimum of 3.75 and SATs Verbal and Math, at least a 650. This is for OOS though not In-state.</p>
<p>they are pretty ridic...like by looking at the collegeboard stats:</p>
<p>Middle 50% of
First-Year Students
SAT Critical Reading: 600 - 710<br>
SAT Math: 620 - 720<br>
SAT Writing: 610 - 710
you would say that my m-650, v-710, w- 700 would be fine but i am SOO underqualified for the oos pool is ridic...I wouldn't have applied without a 1450+ had I known</p>
<p>lost, i saw your stuff on the W&M thread, and I guess I'll kind of say again what people said there. Yes, W&M and UVA have obligations as public universities to accept most of their guys from their state. But since you applied, they aren't guaranteed to say no to you. Your stats are good and at the upper end in CR and W, and at the middle for math. If you're in the top 10% of your class that also is a plus (I wasn't even close when I was in college). Depending on your state and sex, that could also change things. If you're a girl from PA, your chances aren't great, but if you're a guy from West Virginee, you do have a great shot. Hope this helps.</p>
<p>As with the stratifying of SAT scores by Virginian applicants vs. Non-Virginian applicants at UVA and W&M, I disagree. If lesser schools in Virginia like Virginia Tech, JMU, and Mason don't do it, if other public Ivies like Michigan and UNC don't do it, and if public universities in the upper Atlantic/New England like UConn, Pitt, Rutgers, and Binghamton don't, well, UVA and W&M shouldn't either.</p>
<p>I think that any school that has a major gap between instate and out of state students should provide that information just to be helpful to prospective students. Clearly it is difficult to chose what school you want to apply to, and eliminating guess work would be extremely helpful. Its very difficult to guess that type of statistic. Also, providing that stat wouldn't harm the university so...</p>
<p>My son got in UVA ED this past fall. He was OOS and did not have a 1450 SAT. What he did have were perfect grades, all honors and AP's, and a class rank in the top 5% of his class (his school does not rank) in a very competitive hs. Also lots of EC's, leadership positions and great recs. We were afraid his SAT (2050) would keep him out - especially from OOS - but we had heard from many sources that UVA values hard work and challenging classes more than SAT scores. Something about four years of work being more important than a four hour test. His acceptance seems to bear that out.</p>
<p>I am sure you are very proud of your son, as you should be! :) I of course don't have prefect grades, but it is nice to know that hard work is being rewarded</p>
<p>Not trying to brag (oh, sure I am. I'm a mom). Just trying to say that grades, class rank, and hard courses seem to count at least as much as scores - if not more. And when my husband visited UVa and asked about the difference b/w OOS and in-state SAT scores, the admissions officer said that OOS scores were actually lower. But keep in mind that the OOS pool includes many athletes.</p>
<p>Haha you are cute! No, i understand your point and that you weren't bragging bragging (really if your mother isn't going to brag, who is? and everyone deserves to bragged about, esp if they have accomplished something...lol i will stop before i start to sound overly corny). That is really intresting though! Thanks for the response</p>
<p>Just another point. The desire to try and handicap admissions is very tempting. Isn't that why many of us are here? But I've learned through watching the process that is isn't always so easy to do. The son who's going to UVa also applied early action to UNC/Chapel Hill as a second choice. After receiving his acceptance to UVa, he wrote UNC to pull his app., but apparently they were behind in their filing and never filed his letter. Long story short, when UNC's acceptances came out in early Jan (almost a month early), he was notified that he'd been accepted. To be honest, we were stunned. Not just because he'd pulled his app, but because his SAT scores were not even close to what we'd "heard" one needed to have to get in. The word on the street is that OOS students need high 1400's to get in. But for some reason, my son got in. And here I'd tried to convince him not to bother applying with those scores.<br>
So much for the word on the street.<br>
The moral of the story - you can't always handicap college admissions. No matter how hard we all try to :)<br>
And good luck to you!</p>
<p>Aside from the SAT scores, which aren't as prominent in the process as Kaplan and Princeton Review are telling you they are, what stats would you want to see?</p>
<p>GPA calculation varies so dramatically from school to school that we don't bother with an "average" score and many schools are dropping rank completely, so even the percentage of students in the top decile stat is bound to be a little off. </p>
<p>The most important part of the application is the transcript, which is the combination of the strength of curriculum and grades. Testing is part of our review, but when I'm looking at four years of information in one hand and the score from a four hour exam in the other, I'm drawn to the transcript. </p>
<p>We've been telling people this for years. I think some want to make the admission process into a mathematical equation, but some of the factors being considered (curricular strength, teacher recs, essays, activities) can't (EDIT: shouldn't) be assigned a score.</p>
<p>I would have to agree to one of the posts earlier. I do NOT have a 1450, but I've had great grades, I've been involved in tons of student activities and clubs, and I've actively pursued every academic opportunity available to me.</p>
<p>I'm OOS and I received a Likely Letter last month. UVA is a school that clearly understands the importance of 4 years over 4 hours.</p>
<p>When my D was deciding where to apply we tried very hard to get the usual stats for OOS applicants. The same stats that everybody gets: middle 50% of SAT, class rank, GPA. We asked by phone, e-mail, visits to my D's HS and on our visit to UVA (speaking with an adcom in a meeting we arranged). They refused to give us data on OOS applicants. I felt this was a bit disingenious. I do have to budget time, money, etc. for school trips and apps and it seems very reasonable for me to be able to interpret their data to see if I want to make that(those) trip(s). They want people to apply. I understand that. But they don't want people to decide for themselves if it is worth their effort. I understand that you can get in with below average stats, but if the chances are low enough it might be better to apply elsewhere. That should be the applicant's decision, but UVA will not give out the info needed to make that call. Should I really go visit and interview at Harvard with a 1800 SAT and 3.3 GPA or would that trip be better spent at another college?
My D did not apply to UVA, mostly due to its size (she wanted a little smaller), but their complete refusal to give us the stats did rub her the wrong way.</p>
<p>I realize that quantifying the admission process is both impossible and illogical. However, an average GPA (yes, this is not a constant like the SATs and often scaled differently...if everyone has a 3.9 there is a good chance yo u aren't getting in with a 3.3 and most people are aware of how competive is)there respective school i and average SAT score would give applicants an idea of were they stand. It would also make applicants feel more comfortable, which is important.</p>
<p>It would also make them feel like they are not good enough for UVA, which to me seems to go against what UVA stands for.</p>
<p>Dean J:</p>
<p>Of course people want to quantify the process, and of course the process does not lend itself to a 1.0 relationship to the numbers.</p>
<p>Having said that, I'll bet that many out-of-state high schools can provide their students with scatter charts with the x and y axes being SAT scores and GPA, and that the scatter will indicate that more people with high GPAs and SAT scores get accepted than those with lower GPAs and SAT scores.</p>
<p>Am I wrong about this? If I'm not, wouldn't you think OOS students might find this sort of information useful to help them calculate their odds?</p>
<p>although this was a few years ago, when my student and i did our UVA info session, the admissions officer giving the talk said as clear as could be that whatever she'd just said(stats,etc.) would be higher for OOS! (there was an audible moan in the audience!) anyway, my OOS-er DID get in.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
Am I wrong about this?
[/QUOTE]
Yes, the guidance counselors should be providing this information, especially at schools using Naviance management software. Many Naviance schools allow parents to log in from home to browse the scattergrams.</p>