<p>What we have here are two competing theories of education. I personally see great value in the liberal arts approach, though it may not necessarily or appropriately be measured in dollars and cents. If that's your standard though, go for it and reap your reward, but understand that it is not a universally accepted (and certainly not the exclusive) goal of education. </p>
<p>I would have thought that choosing a screen name bound to remind readers of Aristotle, one of history's supreme polymaths whose works form the very basis of classical education, might signal some appreciation for the liberal arts. Your advice on the relative value of an economics degree from Stern vs CAS is probably correct, but you are on much less certain ground questioning whether an English degree is worth the tuition. </p>
<p>I suspect we ought to leave it that one should pursue that form of education which seems most attractive to the particular student. Certainly, greater minds than ours have argued the point to no better effect.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I feel a little sorry for them, throwing away their one chance at a liberal arts education to study . . . business? You can, and probably will,
spend the rest of your life learning business.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Melquiades,
No one has ever said that liberal arts degrees are of little value until a provocative argument of yours was so kindly introduced. I believe that iberal arts, without doubt or sarcasm, are an essential part of human civilization. I am also aware that money isn't everything, and people can be happy without too much of it.
which is why I have equal respect for CAS students, Sternines, Tischies, Social work and nursing students. clearly, you do not share my view. I thought open-mindedness to different disciplines was one thing that liberal arts education was supposed to teach.</p>
<p>The fact that there is an internal war going on here between CAS and Stern students is pathetic. Both schools are fantastic at what they teach, and no one should say otherwise. </p>
<p>I think to generalize Stern students as "backstabbing, cheating" is ******* idiotic, as I know many who are completely the opposite. In the same sense, I would argue that a CAS education is not worthless, at least if you're an econ major (many have gone into i-banking/consulting).</p>
<p>Although econ is considered part of liberal arts, I believe the original poster was dealing with the literature/classical side of liberal arts ("I feel a little sorry for them, throwing away their one chance at a liberal arts education to study" I doubt she would say that learning econ formulas is really much better). It is considerably more difficult to get an ibanking job thru CAS econ then Stern Finance (Alot of places only recruit Stern students and we have alot more networking opportunities, so it makes it alot more difficult [a few econ students do get BB ibanking jobs tho, althought most of the time they go to the boutiques if anywhere finance])</p>
<p>Stern CAS wars are fun, it entertains me at work.</p>
<p>"It is considerably more difficult to get an ibanking job thru CAS econ then Stern Finance (Alot of places only recruit Stern students and we have alot more networking opportunities, so it makes it alot more difficult [a few econ students do get BB ibanking jobs tho, althought most of the time they go to the boutiques if anywhere finance])"</p>
<p>Yeah I would definitely agree with that, although I do think the reputation of CAS econ is improving - during the year I got an internship with JP Morgan and now I'm interning at the Monitor Group, a top 5 management consulting firm. </p>
<p>Just out of curiosity, where do you work? Are you going the banking route or are you doing something like hedge funds/private equity? I've been trying to meet people in those sectors to learn more about them.</p>
<p>For the record, I think that as an undergrad, to major in anything except econ, math, or IR at NYU CAS is a complete waste of money. On the same note, to major in anything at Stern with the exception of finance or international business is a waste. That's just my opinion.</p>
<p>I think CAS has a decent premed program also.</p>
<p>I'm doing a back office stint at a top 5 asset management firm, probably going to move to portfolio analytics next summer (after a few year there you move into portfolio management), if I dont get a BB ibanking internship. I really like it here, and they have similiar pay and alot more job security (no 2 year contract), so I might just stay here anyways, they also run hedge funds that I could get into eventually.</p>
<p>i actually really enjoy philosophy, and have taken a few classes...and it just reaffirmed my opinion that liberal arts education is a waste of time. Teachers/students biases ruin everything and eventually groupthink takes over. i'm basically a subjectivist, nihilist, determinist so I get kind of sick of existentialists try to give objective meaning and importance to life because they can't accept their own philosophy...wussies</p>
<p>Portfolio management is actually a really good thing to get into - I had a friend who did that last summer with and he really enjoyed it.</p>
<p>The job security in i-banking does worry me - For example, the full-time analysts at JP Morgan were allowed to stay on for a maximum of three years before being asked to leave the firm or go to b-school and rejoin later. Also, with more of the finance jobs being outsourced (like Citigroup did a couple of months ago), it will be difficult to predict how the prospect of getting a job with a top i-bank will look like in the near future. Personally I might end up going the consulting route; they do make less than bankers but I find the work intellectually stimulating, whereas at JP Morgan all I did was crunch numbers and update company profiles.</p>
<p>I don't know if consulting is worth it...you work the same hours as ibankers, but get like a 15-30k bonus (maybe this has increased also though), as opposed to ibankers who are getting 90-100k this year. Portfolio analytics is bad in that regard also, but the ease of getting into portfolio management makes up for that I think. My friends going into consulting seem to be doing it for the exit ops, which I honestly see as the same as ibanking - so might as well make the extra money at a BB. I could be wrong though, I really haven't researched it much and I'm going by things I've heard second hand.</p>
<p>A person who decides to take a liberal arts path certainly isn't doing it because they expect their degree to be bankable or lucrative; that goes without saying. They are probably more interested in the idea of learning for learning's sake which, at least in my experience, is something that can never truly be realized in a high school environment that emphasizes strict AP curriculums, and deemphasizes abstract thinking. </p>
<p>Will a CAS or Gallitan degree get you into the doors of Goldman Sachs? Not likely. Is a CAS or Gallitan education worth $200,000? Well, that's definately debatable. I do think, however, that it's important for higher education to offer students several different outlets; to only stress business skills would prepare us maybe for making money, but wouldn't necessarily answer all of the other positions that need to be filled, from artists to teachers to chemists. </p>
<p>Maybe this is a terrible analogy, but: to make a magazine, you need the people in charge of writing articles, the people in charge of drawing up illustrations, and the people in charge of determining budgets and negotiating sales. To say that one of those jobs is more important than the others because it requires business savvy would be to ignore the necessity of working as a team, and of including creativity, in the publishing process.</p>
<p>I get kind of annoyed with this whole "liberal arts vs business" degree 'battle.' Last year I found myself surrounded with a lot of dumb people, who strictly wanted to study their ass off, get a 4.0 jsut so they could get a job. No, I am not some idealist, but, for 200,000 grand I would love to learn something too.</p>
<p>I am in CAS.. one of those "statistically lower" candidates as some care to say, which I could contest but that's not the point. I am studying journalism and middle eastern studies, double major, and I also have a minor in Tisch for film production. That being said, I have already had a great internship with a high powered PR firm, and at Sony Pictures - which usually only takes graduates as interns - and I have a great production job this summer. No I am not trying to make myself look good or brag, I am trying to show that there is a balance, and success is not just for the finance majors. </p>
<p>No, I really would not like to go very far with the Middle Eastern major, but I took it on for a sake of interest and learning about something new. I still am career oriented and I will get a job upon graduation. </p>
<p>Many of the poeple I work with at sony, if not most, in production, are liberal arts or film grads.. not business. All I am trying to argue, in a very muddled way (I'm on my way to work and I jsut saw this...) is that to go into business, you do not have to be a business major. And a liberal arts degree is not to be looked down upon... I really find that insulting. Many of my Stern friends are so grade-obsessed, it's not a way to live. I have gotten better jobs than they have, (some applied with me) and I am not nearly as stressed as they are.</p>
<p>Basically.. I feel business and lib arts are apples to oranges. Being able to turn on the news everyday and comepletely understand all the politics going on in the world with the middle east, is worth more to me than any business degree. To someone else, they just want a great paying job. To each his own.</p>
<p>Post #14, "otherwise useless liberal arts."</p>
<p>Boy are you in for a surprise. I wager that most corporate recruiters interview loads of students who can do the numbers. What their looking for is the critical thinker and leader who can WRITE and express ideas clearly.</p>
<p>what about if one wants to go to a top law school? personally, i do not want to have one of these goldman sachs or consulting business jobs that you guys are talking about but i wanted to go in the direction of law…would it hurt me to go to NYU CAS and study econ and poli sci? i want to be an entertainment lawyer so i figured that nyu and its great networking work help me a lot with the entertainment part and i could also have the business econ degree for when i’m applying for jobs after law school…is this misguided?</p>
<p>It means that a 4.0 poli sci major won’t be completely shut off from any career, although if you’re looking at I-banking before law school you’d have to work hard in CAS to get the contacts to get looked at in the recruiting process.</p>