@midwestsahm : Please don’t take it seriously when I said your son might not fit in your state flagship. Actually it is those foreign students who clique up together. (https://www.1843magazine.com/features/alienation-101) I found it utterly unfair that some international students were gaming the system to get into elite colleges (https://www.1843magazine.com/features/the-long-march-from-china-to-the-ivies). But if they were no longer coming, Midwest state flagships would be in financial trouble. Brown does not need funds from international students to plug the budget hole. On the contrary, all the Ivies are limiting their number of international students as their admissions rates are much lower than domestic students’.
Brown vs a state flaghship would depend on the state flagship and major. For engineering and other STEM, the state flaghsips like Michigan and Berkeley are better, but Brown would be better than any SUNY. For non-STEM like English or Literature, Brown is better than most state flagships, by a lot. It’s odd to compare Brown to state flagships though as Brown is an ivy. Typically state flagships are compared to each other,except for STEM when they’re compared to Stanford and MIT.
@theloniusmonk : One of the most long running discussions on CC is about “prestige” versus state flagship. Numerous threads are there. The most recent one is http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/2055391-current-parents-how-hung-up-were-you-on-prestige-when-looking-at-colleges-for-yourself-your-child.html Everyone has a different circumstance so they come to a different conclusion. Btw, I wouldn’t recommend going to any state flagship to do pre-med. See my post at http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/21189828#Comment_21189828 You got 926 pre-med applicants from UCLA and 741 from Berkeley. I am sure they work extremely hard to go through the weeding processing. But unless they are on the top of their pack, the odds just work against them since over-representation is a consideration at most medical schools.
Most privates, including ivies also weed out pre-med though, similar to state flagships. Maybe Brown doesn’t to your point, but Yale definitely does, they weed out pre-meds and the ones that make it get the support of the school wrt mcats, med school applications etc…
@theloniusmonk : Brown does weed out pre-med and has the same committee letter as Yale. But think of this way … there is no curve at grading in Brown. If some students weed themselves out by performing poorly, they have themselves to blame. They are not competing against their neighbors in classes. The pre-med classes are by no means easy. Being a doctor is a huge responsibility. I believe you don’t want to see a doctor who don’t know what he/she is doing. To level the playing field, MCAT comes into play. See https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/factstablea23.pdf . There is a direct correlation between MCAT scores and acceptance rate. OK, you can see that 10.8% of those (highest MCAT and GPA) who have other problems end up not getting accepted anywhere. But for the majority of normal people, high MCAT and high GPA is a guarantee. I believe taking MCAT and doing well is very important since it proves the candidates are well-prepared for the medical school. Those people who go to pressure cookers (Berkeley included) are just looking for trouble (if not for financial reason), since one dimension of the chart is total GPA. They have to beat their neighbors to get good GPA … cut throat? competitive? …
@midwestsahm We are from the midwest and my son is a junior at Brown. He’s thriving and has had some amazing academic experiences and has made wonderful connections. I’m not sure where you are from in the Midwest, but in our area everyone knows about Brown. I went to the University of Michigan (30 years ago) and although I love it, I see my son getting a much more enriching education than I did. It’s a really fantastic place.
I don’t even know if it has niche prestige. True, its heritage dates back to the Ivy Sports league. It has gained a lot of hype due to its history (not now) of being an easier ivy to get into. Nowadays its better known for its open curriculum and P/F courses and shopping week. I don’t believe it’s all that it’s cracked up to be.
@preppedparent Is it really an easier Ivy to get into?
@preppedparent , what specifically brings you to this conclusion that’s it’s not “all that it’s cracked up to be”?
I suppose that’s why the Dean of Brown College was just appointed to be President of Williams College.
You must be right that Brown is nothing special.
@dochouse, I don’t think @preppedparent plans to come back to respond.
Brown is such a wonderful college. The students at Brown are very fortunate.
I don’t understand why some people try to malign Brown.
@wrenwu is your son by chance an engineering major? I’m trying to gather some recent impressions from current students or parents on the chemical or materials engineering program; we’re visiting there with D2 in a week or so.
My complaint about Brown is campus really isn’t all that impressive compared to its peers. I think the newest major building is the $18m entrepreneurship center? It’s lovely but I don’t think it would crack top 5 new construction projects at wealthy peer colleges. For ex., UChicago’s new dorms were $148m, Michigan just pumped $135m into their b-school, Penn’s political science building just got $80m.
And Providence is meh compared to dynamic places like NYC, SF, Boston, Philly, Chicago, DC where other peers are either located in or in close proximity to. Then again, New Haven is crummy too, so who knows.
@Idaho Father No, my son is a CS major. Have fun on your visit - I wish I knew more about the engineering program. Sorry!
@lizzy1234 I have to disagree with you on Providence. We have found it to be extremely dynamic and hip. We’ve had some amazing food (so many great restaurants) and seen some really good shows.
@wrenwu What top 15 college city (or closest city) is Providence better than? I think it’s bottom of the list. New Haven is crummy too, but has the advantage of all the grad and professional students (and closer to NYC), making it seem more dynamic? After college, how often are Brown grads stoked to get back to Providence? I’d assume very infrequently. Providence has a mediocre economy and crime & poverty issues.
Providence is near beautiful coast, has great food (thanks in part to Johnson & Wales), is close enough to Boston and NYC but not a suburb. Love that town. Way better than New Haven IMO.
@preppedparent I’ve never heard anyone talk about the grading in real life. Seems to be a CC thing. But I have heard it referenced in various ways as the cool Ivy. And looking at Brown ED accepted friends vs ED/EA peer college friends, the latter are slightly more try-hard/obnoxious/annoying. lol
@lizzy1234 So I assume you or your child did not apply and wont be going there?
@lizzy1234 I guess it is all in your outlook and taste level. Why are you applying to Brown if you are so put off by Providence?