Does Money Matter? If parents rich, does it help?

Prep School Admissions
1

<p>I saw in one thread someone was complaining that they hate that some schools are not need blind and that people like so and so really bothered him/her. </p>

<p>So I want to ask, does it matter at some of the top Private Days schools or boarding schools if the parents are stinking filthy rich? I only ask because I assumed my son's only chance one day to get into a top High school would be either a great feeder school or he already got in at the Kindergarten level or because he is smart and capable too. Well, if my money makes a difference then I would quickly write a big check for something the school might need, if it would help? </p>

<p>By the way, somehow I feel that would be cheating at the University Level, but does it help there too? Honestly, I really want him to get into a top college on his own merits, but at the high school level, I feel differently, I mean of course I expect him to get into a great high school on his own merits but if I can help...at the College level again...not cool.</p>

2

<p>I'm sure there are some schools where a substantial check could help.<br>
If I was your child, though, I would like to know that I got in on my own merits and "deserved" my slot. Also, would you really want your child enrolled at a school that might be too challenging for them if they couldn't get in on their own merit?</p>

<p>Many kids here get in from public schools and are just all around good kids. I think you are overthinking/overstressng. Focus on building an upstanding kid, who has passions and interests, and who is a dedicated, conscientous student. Focus on confidence, which I don't think would be helped by mummy or daddy buying his/her way into a school. The rest should take care of itself.</p>

<p>Sorry if this sounds harsh but you're building a human being not a collection of diplomas.</p>

3

<p>I also agree that you are overthinking this. I can give you my opinion. There is no such thing as a feeder school. It is true that many kids from a K-8 school might happen to go on to a certain high school, but they are given no preference. If a kid in the K-8 has a B average and a 65%SSAT, and a kid applying from the public school has a B+ average and a 75%SSAT, they would go with the one with the better stats, application, interview, etc. The reason you see more from the private K-8 is just that there are more applications from those schools and more interest, which leads to a greater enrollment. In no way does it give any preference.</p>

<p>Second, giving a check does not get you into a private school, nor does it get you into a college. In fact, if you tried to do that, it would probably work against you. Schools will give preference to a few extremely wealthy people who they hope will give $500k donations yearly, but there are very few of those people in each school. I have had clients who were alums of top prep schools, donated $5k-10k a year and there children were rejected. At conferences this question gets asked all the time, and I think that top preps go out of their way to reject children of medium level donors. If they donate regularly in the hundreds of thousands, it might make a difference. But there are very few people who can do this, so it is really rare.</p>

<p>My advice is to find a school where you kids will be happy and will find a love of learning. Get to know them as students and people before choosing their high school. good luck</p>

4

<p>"Top preps go out of their way to reject children of medium level donors"? What purpose would going specifically after this group serve? Are they trying to prove that they don't give preference to monied families or am I completely missing the point?</p>

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<p>I've been poor and I've been rich, and rich is better.</p>

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<p>fun is fun - perhaps you should change your name to "rich is fun" :)</p>

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<p>Tommiester,
You asked what purpose it serves to deny applicants whose parents have donated to the school. I'd say that it gives no advantage whatsoever, which leaves the kid in the general pool where more are rejected than accepted. In addition to that, many schools are trying to dispell the idea that prep school is for the rich. Their gut reaction to seeing a donation in the year a student applies might be negative.</p>

<p>I had a client who was an alum of Choate, had donated every year, with larger donation in the years before his son applied. He had 90's SSAT, top grades from his NYC prep school. They were sure he would be accepted and refused to look seriously at other school. He was denied, applied again the next year and was denied again. </p>

<p>When I worked for an inner-city scholarship program, I got to know many of the top tier admissions officers and I found them to be very liberal people who were eager to accept disadvantaged but talented kids. They wanted to shape their schools into what the IVy's are today. I think that denying kids whose parents make donations is one of the more obvious ways that they can shape their class away from the old guard feel and more toward the educational excellence and diversity that they seek. That's just my opinion.</p>

<p>Since you asked, what is your opinion on it? Do you think that a school with a $500mm endowment gets very excited over a $10,000 check from some alum?</p>

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<p>No, they probably wouldn't consider $10,000 a lot, but I wasn't aware that you were more likely to be rejected if you did donate to the school. However, it seems to me that though the school may not value one of these donations, if 20 or 30 alums perceived this as disloyalty (and chose not to donate their $10,000), the school WOULD notice the absence of $300,000 worth of donations.</p>

9

<p>I'm definitely with the crowd here.</p>

<p>I think the OP is (like many other posters here) looking for a degree of certainty or at least favorable odds. Let's face it, it is a very competitive academic world out there.</p>

<p>It would appear that the OP has the means to send his children anywhere they are accepted. Now he is trying to find the best that he can afford. Nothing wrong with that.</p>

<p>My humble opinion is that the whole competitive preschool/K-12 industry is more about the result than the process. Let's face it, if a parent spends ungodly amounts of money sending my child to a preschool where the graduates get admission to the top K-12s, the expect results. I think this can result in a lot of results oriented thinking where children are pushed and prodded to fit an end result as opposed to being listened to and guided where their curiosity may take them. Don't get me wrong, the push apprpoach does get results.</p>

<p>But ultimately children act upon what makes them happy. It may not be immediate and there may be acting out along the way, but eventually a child who has been molded in this fashion will need to step back and find out who they truly are. </p>

<p>Instead of investing the money in a top school, invest a month in visiting schools. Spend a day at 20 different schools. Walk into different age classrooms. Are the kids engaged and energetic? Or are they busy and quiet? While the busy and quiet kids may get more done in a day, the engaged and energetic kids will get more out of life. </p>

<p>And then spend a month with your children. Find out what excites them (beyond the junk food video entertainment of pop culture). Are they interested in things that move? Do they admire things of beauty? Do they sit back and observe people interacting? It will give you a clue as to what to expose them to.</p>

<p>This is a difficult task to do for a travelling parent. The difference between this approach and buying the best schools on the planet can often be measured in years on the couch, though. Regardless of how much you spend or where you send your children, do know them and what you are getting them into. They only are children once.</p>

10

<p>in short,
money matters, being rich helps,
but low importance when it comes to criteria of applicants.</p>

11

<p>Creative - I'm in one of those poor periods right now - too many tuitions!</p>

12

<p>OP--</p>

<p>I think you many find that your ideas concerning donations and wealth at elite schools is a bit outdated and/or clouded by Hollywood/cheap lit depictions.</p>

<p>Admissions officers are generally paid middle class incomes, put in long hours and are really involved in and dedicated to the communities. I think that if an application of a mediocre (on that school's standards, not the general public.. "mediocre" at e/a means "perfect student" at most schools) landed on their desk with a note from the development office, they would be a bit cynical/incensed and reluctant to praise the kid's "merits", which many know are often a product OF wealth -- of pushy parents and social standards. I think many would be more fond of giving that spot to a kid with the same "merits", but from a more interesting and diverse background (as compared to, say, the kid of a wealthy white professional).</p>

<p>That being said, the ability to pay is more favorable than when an applicant seeks FA at a school with limited FA resources. Yes, a family with an auspicious donating future (million+) is attractive to the development dept.</p>

<p>Will you/your child feel like an authentic, valued member of the family if you/your child/others in the community have an ounce of doubt about how your wealth was involved in your child's acceptance?</p>

<p>Why not hold off donations until your child has attended and expressed praise equal to the amount you wish to donate?</p>

<p>Why not learn about the benefits of hiding your wealth and experiencing only the positive aspects, and not all of the negative aspects (self doubt, grifters, future solicitations/expectations, getting along with others from all classes, a perceived abrasive personality) and teaching this to your highly impressionable child who you seek to educate properly? It may be more beneficial to your child's future than an elite diploma.</p>

13

<p>Of course it helps. But if you are only looking at the top five prep schools, they have a huge number of very large donors (and their kids) to choose from.</p>

<p>Several years ago I worked in the major gifts office of one of the Ivies. (Our office only dealt with donors capable of making gifts of $1 million or more -- it now only deals with donors capable of giving $5 million or more.) You can be sure that we were in regular contact with the admissions office. You should know, though, that we didn't always get the outcome we hoped for. It's not clear whether it's better for an institution to say no to a major donor's child in the first place or to have to deal with the fallout when the kid tanks because he shouldn't have been there in the first place.</p>

<p>I've always thought that schools should auction off the last spot in their freshman class. That way, rather than hoping that a wealthy family might make a donation if we let in their child, we would instead KNOW for certain that that gift would be there to allow us to better serve all the other kids. No one has ever been willing to put this idea into practice. ;)</p>

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<p>The auction is an interesting idea sbergman! Someone I knew said that at an info session for an independent day school, Admissions told them about the annual fund, and hinted strongly that they wanted contributions prior to admission. Then they pointed out how few admissions spots there were.</p>

<p>I've often wondered about the very wealthy & Development dance. Are they introduced to people in Development prior to college admissions through mutual friends? In "The Price of Admissions" I read that Duke was able to court them prior to college admissions, and this was their very successful strategy for increasing their endowment. Anyway, I'm just curious about this topic. Any additional insight is appreciated.</p>

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<p>Ebay a spot! That is my answer. Imagine what a spot at aesd would go for in Korea or Hong Kong. Fun to think about.</p>

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<p>Hahaahhah, it would go for so much more than tuition. </p>

<p>I hate it when people use their diploma to directly bank off of that school's prestige. Like, a that paper-editing site that boasts every staff member is from Harvard or whatever. It's so cheap, and it's such a waste of a worthy alumnus.</p>

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<p>it makes a HUGE difference if you can write a check for the full amount of tuition instead of having to apply for FA. Applying for FA puts you in an entirely different pool of applicants to be chosen from. It certainly is a plus if you have the $$.</p>

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<p>If your child does get into a top school like aesd on your money and not his merits, then he may suffer in the long run. Schools choose kids on merit if they believe that they are smart or capable enough to handle it. Im only talking about you writing a check with the intention of helping your child's chances. Paying full tuition is different.</p>

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<p>A few of the wealthiest schools are admitting need blind, so being able to pay full tuition, but not make substantial gifts, does not matter. Most excellent private prep schools and boarding schools still cannot afford to admit need blind, and full pay students do have a better chance.</p>

<p>Others have made clear that a contribution will help admissions prospects only if the amount is large in the context of the school. The WSJ did an article a few years ago about the communications between the development office and the admissions office at top colleges. These colleges, like the most prestigious prep schools, have many more qualified applicants than spots.</p>

<p>So, if your kid, based on academic ability and extracurriculars, is a reasonable prospect at one of these schools, but the school rejects most reasonable prospects, then you can improve those chances dramatically by visiting the development office. This could work to your child's advantage. </p>

<p>If your kid is not up to the academic standard of the school, one would hope the admissions office would stand its ground and say no. However, if you offered too much money, you might get the kid in over his/her head.</p>

<p>The development office visit is real visit, done diplomatically. You want to convey the idea that you are contemplating giving them a big gift (by their standards, at a place with hundreds of millions of dollars, a big gift is quite big). Then ask them what their development priorities are-all offices will have a set of first priorities that they pitch first to potential donors. As they tell you about them, see whether they are talking about the same kind of money you are. If they are mentioning, to you, low dollar cost projects, bid them up, they will love that. If they are talking orders of magnitude beyond what you can afford, then this may not work at that school. </p>

<p>By the time you and they have decided that you might be able to and interested in giving them what they consider a major gift, they will have learned that you have a kid who might apply. You will describe your kid's qualifications, and the development officer will either get even more excited (no problem getting this kid in), neutral (need to see the application and talk to admissions), or depressed (no way).</p>

<p>The above is based on "stinking filthy rich", implying you could give them a major building, or a comparable endowment. So, for example, AESD are wealthy schools, but I bet a $10M gift would get you a lot of attention. Give them $50M, and either your kid will get in, or the head of school will take you to dinner to explain why their school is a such a bad choice for your child that they just cannot go along with it. These are competitive environments for very talented students. </p>

<p>How would the kid feel knowing, or suspecting, that they got in partly due to your wealth? This is for you to deal with. There will be other kids in the same position. Some for wealth, some for contacts. This is hardly a unique story.</p>

<p>If you are talking about the kind of money that hundreds of alums give every year, then no, it will not matter.</p>

20

<p>I attended a college admissions conference where they discussed large donors and admissions. One tactic that was used was to invite a wealthy individual who had a child interested in the school to join the Board of Directors. I'm sure that when Bill Gates' kids are older, he will receive many invitations to join the Boards of any school his kid showed interest in. But this is for large donors and well known people.</p>

<p>The family who donates $5k, $10k, or even $50k a year would hardly be a blip on the radar screen. So this benefit of donating really doesn't apply to many people in the world. Certainly not me!</p>