<p>@Vlklngboy11 - Very interesting! I like sports, but I certainly didn’t know that level of detail about why certain schools are placed where they are. Why don’t the Ivies participate in the playoffs? Just too hopeless?</p>
<p>@twoinanddone - Maybe the problem is terminology with which I am not familiar. What is a head count sport vs. a non-head count sport? Do you mean sports that are only allowed to have so many players on the squad, like D1 football and basketball? Because of course other (all?) sports have limits on how many scholarships they can give, even if there aren’t limits on the number of players on the team. And are you sure it is actually against the rules not to give partial scholarships to, say, D1 football players? I could be wrong for sure, but I thought I remembered reading that a coach split a scholarship between 2 players on a D1 team.</p>
<p>@fallenchemist A headcount sport is one where every player gets 100% scholarship. A non-headcount sport (aka equivalency sport) is a sport where the scholarships are divided among the players. Headcount sports are football, basketball (M & W), and W tennis, W gymnastics, and W volleyball. You can read more here:</p>
<p><a href=“Why You Need to Know the Difference Between Head-Count and Equivalency Scholarships”>http://www.athleticscholarships.net/sports-scholarships/head-count-versus-equivalency-scholarships.htm</a></p>
<p>Ivy sports do participate in post-season play, just not in football. This comes up for discussion every few years, bit administration won’t change its stance because post-season plat conflicts with reading periods and final (although they don’t seem to have a problem when other sports conflict with finals).</p>
<p>@skieurope - Thanks, very good resource for the explanation about scholarships, and very logical explanatin about the Ivies and playoffs for football. Yes, I meant football only. I am quite aware of Harvard’s success in Men’s basketball, and Princeton back in the day. And of course many times in hockey (both genders?) and some other sports.</p>
<p>@fallenchemist Here’s an article discussing post-season football play in the Ivy League:</p>
<p><a href=“Ivy League Remains Absent from Expanding FCS Playoff | Sports | The Harvard Crimson”>Ivy League Remains Absent from Expanding FCS Playoff | Sports | The Harvard Crimson;
<p>Fallenchemist, skieurope answered most of your question, and it is confusing. A D-II football scholarship can be split, but not D-1. For the most part, head count sports athletes are getting full rides (everything) and most other athletes are not even though you’ll often hear someone claim to be getting a ‘full ride’. Some come close (hockey has 20 full scholarships and usually only about 25 athletes, with 20 on a game roster; with some academic money, the entire team can be fully funded) but most teams have many more players than NCAA scholarships available.</p>
<p>It was very difficult to know what to expect for my D-II athlete, what was fair and if we could get more if we kept looking. It does all come together somehow, but the math is definitely higher level.</p>
<p>Ivies do participate in playoffs like soccer and lacrosse for example.</p>
<p>I have never heard of being recruited for varsity (D1, D2, or D3) sports not helping an applicant. I’ve even seen many junior college coaches almost begging for players. For the Ivies, they are looking at the average athlete with a 2000 SAT score vs. 2200 average for all students. GPA is a similar story. Lower scores are possible for a highly recruited football recruit, or a national caliber player for a few other sports. It might be shocking to some students and parents, but many HS athletes are spending 10 - 20 hours per week on their sport, 10 or 11 months per year, and it is very difficult to maintain a high GPA and get high SAT scores when doing that. Not impossible. But I know of Ivy athletes that have 3.3 weighted averages in HS. And SAT scores of 1600.</p>
<p>I don’t think you should commit to playing a sport unless you really want to. My son wants to play his sport in college bad enough that he will go to a D3 school if an Ivy accepts him but the coach doesn’t want him. The timing is important though, you have to apply ED to get a spot on a college team and get the benefit from the coach’s recommendation. Rarely, D3 coaches are still looking not only right before RD, but even after RD to convince athletes to apply to their school. But D3 doesn’t have athletic scholarships.</p>
<p>It all depends on the sport and on the school, as pointed out. The coach of your current sport, if he/she is worth his/her salt, already has relationships with the coaches of the universities that will be recruiting the athletes. Oldest DD’s rowing coach knew ALL the coaches across the country and knew how to set the table for her athletes. Bottom line, DD was courted on the steps of the Radcliffe Boathouse following her stellar performance at Head of the Charles at the very point NCAA lets loose its restrictions on coaches to approach the athletes. </p>
<p>YES! Athletes that are of the caliber of the team and recruited by the coach get free admission passes to many elite universities. There is a minimum standard for all athletes (see the NCAA clearinghouse for the minimum). Some universities (like the UC system) have a UC-eligible minimum. If you meet these minimums and the coach wants you, you are in. No essays and no hassles. Some coaches at some universities can pull some strings if you are below the minimum but they have to really want you and promise their first born child sometimes.</p>
<p>If you are a good enough athlete and the coach wants you bad enough, you will get in.</p>
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<p>Hours spent practicing for a sport have NOTHING to do with SAT/ACT scores. There is no excuse for an Ivy having a kid with a 1600 SAT - except they want to win and are willing to sell out their academic standards to do it.</p>
<p>^ Or inherently, they aren’t able to score exceptionally on those tests. As an interviewer for an HYP and knowing my own kid and her teammates, I can assert that many top level recruitable students are getting excellent SAT/ACTs – all while maintaining their rigorous sports commitments.</p>
<p>Many different facets to this question. Obviously students offerred scholarships are admitted with generally much lower quailifications than the typical student at that college. A high school athlete who isn’t good enough to play at the DI college level may have an advatage in admissions to top schools if they demonstrate leadership through their athletics. My daughter attends Cornell, & even though she isn’t good enough to swim there, being captain of her high school team helped her resume for admission. DIII athletes who are recruited have an advantage, how much depends on the college, sport they are playing, & coaches influence. </p>
<p>Hours spent practicing for a sport have NOTHING to do with SAT/ACT scores. There is no excuse for an Ivy having a kid with a 1600 SAT - except they want to win and are willing to sell out their academic standards to do it. </p>
<p>I’m not a fan of this statement. An athlete works very hard at their sport and those that get to D1 status are gifted in some way. People judge the college for accepting who they want to accept. Sports is a huge part of many colleges and brings in a lot of money. Most Olympic and professional athletes start as college athletes. Just because you don’t admire an athlete’s accomplishments and colleges desire to recruit them, doesn’t mean anything to me. Most big D1 schools have museums of their Olympic and professional athletes. There is room at these colleges for kids who get 2400 SAT scores and room for kids who are the top 100 athletes in their sport. They are both exceptional. Being at the top of a sport while maintaining your college prep requirements is also an accomplishment. If colleges accepted only the kids with the top SAT scores, they would be boring places made up of the same type of person.</p>
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<p>Division 3 schools absolutely recruit athletes. They are not permitted to give athletic scholarships but they certainly do recruit. </p>
<p>Playing a sport at a D3 school can help with admissions if the coach wants you.</p>
<p>If a D3 coach asks me to overnight and apply ED is he highly interested and willing to pull for me? I am easily academically qualified for the school, but it’s highly competitive for all applicants.</p>
<p>^^ That’s the golden ticket. Just be sure you want to go there, because once you do ED, you’re locked in.</p>
<p>FYI - my son is a junior, and at this point, he will likely apply ED to the Ivy that is his top choice, but questionable on admittance, then if he doesn’t get in, he will apply to ED 2 at his second choice which is a D3 school, then if that doesn’t work, he’ll apply to several D1 and D3 schools and try to be a walk-on in his sport. And there are D3s that are looking for seniors in the spring, so that’s another option.</p>
<p>My point is, if you pick your schools carefully, and haven’t already verbally committed and gotten an unofficial pre-read, you can plan to apply ED to a few schools if any have ED2 or rolling admissions.</p>
<p>The main problem we have is if the D3 wants him before October (doubtful they’d force it), and the Ivy won’t give an official pre-read until October. The Ivy coach likes him but my son plays a team sport on a not nationally known team, so the commitment might be later that we’d want. No NLI for the D3 school, so we could lead them along (which they are probably used to, but it is an expensive school)…</p>
<p>As long as the ED for the Ivy is settled, ED 2 at the D3 seems like a great alternative for him. </p>
<p>The other factor in this is scholarships - none at the Ivy but 100% grants for cost minus EFC, and merit aid at the D3 which is substantial but essentially replaces loans. It actually may cost him more to go to a non-Ivy than an Ivy because most Ivies offer grants.</p>
<p>And to link back in to the subject, I don’t think he’d have a snowball’s chance in heck without being a recruited athlete at the Ivy. His stats are okay, but slightly below admissions average for the lower Ivies. Put in the sports, and they are slobbering over his academic stats.</p>
<p>(And I wasn’t saying high test scores and GPA are impossible if you play a sport, it just makes it a heck of a lot harder, especially if your teachers aren’t understanding if you have to travel due to the sport.)</p>
<p>If you think about how many people can play sports at the level of the school, it’s a small number. If you think how many students have a high grade point and SAT scores, it’s a small number also. Now think of the number of people that have both, it’s a really small amount. As you lower the level of the sport, GPA or SAT score, you increase the number of people. To get recruited by the coach at the school you want to attend, start as early as possible. Most coaches email address is on the web these days. Send them an email and tell them about yourself. Don’t be shy. The worst that can happen, is they say no.</p>
<p>I think it’s a mistake to think you can dictate when you apply to a school with an athletic tip. GC relayed to us that a number of athletes at our HS get dumped every year when they won’t commit to a school’s offer - they don’t take kindly to fishing around for a better offer, even in D3. If they say they want to see an ED1 app, don’t think the offer will still be on the table for ED2, it often isn’t. Sometimes they want to see the app even before the ED1 deadline - don’t think there aren’t others they also want to sign if you won’t commit. Of course, there’s nothing to stop you from withdrawing before the deadline if something else does get offered, as your acceptance won’t be official until Dec., but you can only submit one app per ED round, of course.</p>