Does Prep School help college admission chances??

Prep School Admissions Prep School Parents
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<p>exie</p>

<p>As I have cautioned you before, no one can claim systemic knowledge of boarding school education. You have but a case study of yourself at exeter, where yours was one of many possible perceptions of four years there at that time. You ad to that an adcom perspective shaped by institutional culture and career imperatives, essentially another case study. You may have insight, but there is no reason to believe that your perspective is an more informed than Benley’s. You both make core assumptions about the validity and importance of your respective methods and sources. As I have said before, boarding schools are private, cloistered institutions, with competitive reasons to limit information to the general public.</p>

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<p>Is Exie an adcom? (Admissions committee member, paid employee of the school) Or volunteer alumni interviewer? There is a big difference- unless they run things differently at Exeter than other schools.</p>

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<p>Tetus,</p>

<p>Perhaps. </p>

<p>My experience as a student (and contact with my classmates) informs only part of my opinion (which is offered as opinion). My interviewing for both BS and college puts me constantly in touch with a lot of parents and students. All have different needs and approaches. And still it’s just “opinion.” Add to that communication with Adcoms (and students) from other boarding schools and some trends emerge.</p>

<p>I’m also married to a current Adcom whose “stories” tend to mesh with my own.</p>

<p>Still, I’m amused that a previous poster senses “hostility” in my response where I was clearly countering her rude responses to another parents. I went so far as to post the specific examples of behavior eliciting my response.</p>

<p>What “floats” my boat - and I’ve said it often - is I see, first hand, the impact of parent’s often obsessive need for BS to fulfill a certain unrealistic expectation on their children’s performance and overall health. At best, the students are stressed and unhappy but manage. At the extreme, the students choose to take their own lives. And worse, they tick off or annoy interviewers and Adcoms who have hundreds of other students to choose from.</p>

<p>Posed as an query or subjective opinion about BS, a debate is fine. Posed as the “definitive analysis” of boarding school and getting testy with people who actually have demonstrated experience (in this case I responded to an adult’s rude response made to the parent of a BS student)- well, that’s another issue altogether.</p>

<p>And yes - I particularly bristled at the implication that going to BS at 11th grade is a waste of time given the poster still believes (based on history of posts) that the main goal of going to BS (and spending all that money) is to get into a good college. For her yes - for many others - no.</p>

<p>Part of the screening at many boarding schools is to weed out kids who aren’t ready or parents who are driving the process. Just too many motivated kids to have to deal with all the drama. Of course, my experience involves only so called “higher ‘ranked’ New England BS” but the selective trend seems to be true of others. Many are moving away from the idea that they exist to cook, mold and market IVY candidates. They aren’t there to solve bad parenting issues or to motivate bored kids. And they don’t have time to put up with high maintenance helicopter parents.</p>

<p>Which is why so many kids find themselves rejected even with good resumes. And why some parents then come to CC to “blame” the system or “speculate” why their kid got the short shaft.</p>

<p>Every person comes to BS with their own set of expectations, some more healthy than others.</p>

<p>But, for now, I’m willing to concede some parents come to CC for information or networking, others to be consoled, others for validation. I worry about the ones who come here to search for the key to a holy grail that doesn’t exist.</p>

<p>As long as no students are “harmed” in the process , so be it.</p>

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<p>Alright, just a quick note - all the “back and forths” between mashaa and I are contained in this thread. If anyone is interested, which I doubt, you may go back a few pages and look through those posts and find the context of my comments quoted by Exie. This is my “closing” post in this thread.</p>

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<p>Exie</p>

<p>The best boarding schools recognize the essential role parents have played raising a well behaved, intelligent, socially graceful, athletic, and artistic adolescent. There is no reason to think that role is not needed while in attendance. A good boarding school enters a partnership with parents to achieve the best education and maturation of the student. The notion of a 14 year old driving the process is absurd. Of course, the parent paying for and with far more knowledge and wisdom makes the educational decisions about high school. Did your parents pay for whatever you were “highly motivated” to do?</p>

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<p>OK everyone. There is still a lot of contention in the air. I though we were agreeing to disagree? </p>

<p>I know that we all think differently about these matters. We have all had different life experiences. Clearly, Benley has contributed in a meaningful way to this board. I hope he continues to post on other threads. I hope this thread dies once and for all (the irony of me furthering the thread by posting that comment is noted). </p>

<p>I really just posted to say that even if you think Exie’s perceptions are slanted, we all know that she really is holding the positions in questions and - despite whether you agree or not - these boards are often asking for an adcom/grad/parent’s opinion/insight/experience. That’s what she’s giving you. </p>

<p>I appreciate everyone else’s posts, but often times, I have been really taunted and teased on these boards (fyi: never by benley, and not on this particular thread). We just need to be kinder to each other. I think some of the problem may be that people are making a lot of “absolutes”. </p>

<p>Let’s get back to talking about how we feel, what we think, and what we have experienced - and get away from telling anyone else that what they think/feel/experience is wrong. I want to see the world through your eyes, but that doesn’t mean that what I see through mine is any less valid. I need it all to get the complete picture. </p>

<p>Some kids will be helped by BS in the college admission process. Others have a better chance at public school. For some, home schooling is the leg up. Others swear by Parochial education. </p>

<p>And some will rock on to Harvard no matter what. </p>

<p>Such is life.</p>

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<p>Okay…hold on now…</p>

<p>I started this post almost six weeks ago, and I now realize that I need to jump in and referee. It has taken on a life of it’s own.</p>

<p>Please don’t judges others for their opinions and the way they present them…otherwise they will be reluctant to share their well earned wisdom. It is critical for a “prep school newbie parent” like me to hear ALL of your opinions. We are at the crest of making a critical life decision for our student, and we want to be well informed as we make this decision. </p>

<p>This is an awesome resource. Don’t frighten people away with judgements please.</p>

<p>I would NEVER talk to friends, relatives, teachers or anyone about some of the problems we have had- for they will surely judge FOREVER. That’s the beauty of cc…No judging, please.</p>

<p>Thanks again for your insight.</p>

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<p>cidwellmom,</p>

<p>What did you decide? A first year at BS is often transitional and emotional for many students. On the other hand, my husband gave me the book “The Gift Of Fear” which speaks about how we override our “instinct” with “intellect.” Sometimes you just have to trust your gut.</p>

<p>I think my oldest daughter would have crashed and burned in the environment and staying closer to home was a good decision. On the other hand, for my oldest daughter BS was an alternative to her running away to run a third world country - she was ready for the independence and the challenge. But I’ll confess she tested the theory with a BS summer program and knew it was the right environment for her.</p>

<p>So your son won’t make a bad decision either way. Where will he be the most motivated and the most happy?</p>

<p>Another thing to think about - from a college admissions POV - is that often the tipping point for admissions for kids without a lot of obvious hooks (a varsity jock, for instance) is a student who shows a passion for something. Not lots of EC’s but something it is obvious the student would pursue even without adult intervention. </p>

<p>Does your son have something like that? Can it be achieved easier at home? I ask because it would surprise people how many students who have great technical stats don’t get into a school like MIT but a student with good stats and a passion for something out of the “nerd” norm (theater, music, dance) will get in.</p>

<p>Another thought - why college? Not everyone is meant for that path. Or - if they are - may thrive better in a school that is not a coveted IVY type school. The reason why I bring this up - helping students find their path and “passion” is that my hubby treated me to a concert by Pat Metheny who is one of my favorite artists. Only this time, Metheny played the entire concert by himself, controlling every instrument on the stage from a single guitar:</p>

<p>[Pat</a> Metheny](<a href=“http://www.patmetheny.com/orchestrioninfo/]Pat”>Pat Metheny : Pat Metheny Orchestrion)</p>

<p>I was blown away by the imagination that went into designing this set-up and the audience was awestruck. And yet - he went to a Missouri public school, University of Miami, and then taught at Berkeley School of Music for a while. (not Princeton or Yale or Harvard or . . . .)</p>

<p>Bill Gates, on the other hand, dropped out of Harvard and the rest is history.</p>

<p>So when making the decision, it might be based not on college prep, but “Son” prep. And maybe that isn’t BS (or maybe it is and the next year will be easier). Hard to tell. But I’d suggest temporarily drop college prep from the equation then figure out if BS is still a fit.</p>

<p>However - if the grades are worrying you - the coursework at many BS is often harder so a lower grade may not necessarily reflect lack of effort on his part. I remember my first year being very, very tough.</p>

<p>Let us know how you are doing. I know this must be a hard decision to make. And at least you’re willing to entertain alternatives. Many kids suffer in silence because their parents won’t.</p>

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<p><<wow! i=“” feel=“” like=“” i’ve=“” arrived=“” at=“” the=“” party=“” late;=“” bright=“” lights=“” have=“” been=“” turned=“” on=“” and=“” dj’s=“” already=“” thrown=“” slow=“” jams.=“”>></wow!></p>

<p>I feel such a sense of relief that my son is completing his first year at a school that he absolutely loves, which embodies an unwavering social philosophy that has led him to consider his life’s passion (I know, it’s age 15, but still). We will search for colleges that can further that passion, where he will feel as though he is an integral and valued part of campus life, be inspired by similar ideals and values and develop a concrete direction as he prepares to forge his way in the world. Call me na</p>

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<p>Lovely, nyleco! So happy for your son. He’s lucky to have his school and his parent’s support in finding his way. I don’t know how he can go wrong with that kind of backing!</p>

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<p>Thanks Exie for your follow up. Still no final decison…just inching along to the close of school. Half of the sports team has chosen to leave…but also most of the kids causing us grief are leaving / graduating, so it may work out.</p>

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<p>Cldwellmom
See all of the ruckus you started?;>) Looks like things will work out!! Glad to hear it .I can identify with the angst of your situation. Hopefully some of the comments here have given you insight on both sides of the situation. Good luck.</p>

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<p>Tetus, </p>

<p>What I do remember is a lot of other parents who also volunteer and have direct, “current” involvement at schools have backed me up on these boards. And I have pointed out that my experience is not limited to Exeter. So take it for what you will. One inexperienced parent reamed out another who had direct experience and I backed the latter. I will not back down from that stance. There’s a lot of bogus information and speculation being presented on this board as “harmless debate” presented as fact. When you chose to “caution” me on the top 25 board I pointed out that the information I was responding to was from a student who has admitted being admitted to NO schools and therefore has only his/her own speculation and a few campus tours (usually an hour or two) about what happens on a day to day basis or in an Adcom office. But thanks for playing Jeopardy.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>If that is true in your household then perhaps your student will have a bigger hill to climb. Not all children are “built” the same, but it is becoming increasingly clear why two students can have the same stats and one is preferred over the other in the final admissions outcomes. I tend to rank the latter much higher on my reports.</p>

<p>Are 14 year old students fully mature? No, but at this stage they should be driving the admissions/application process. If you look at many BS stats on admit students they have accomplished more than many US adults and are coming in almost “college” ready. In some states they will be “driving” a real car in a year. </p>

<p>Let’s just agree to disagree and see how the kids stack up on the other end. But if it’s any consolation, I also rate harshly those college aspirants who aren’t driving the process as well. I do see too many parents who can’t let go and hence damage their child’s prospects.</p>

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<p><<are 14=“” year=“” old=“” students=“” fully=“” mature?=“” no,=“” but=“” at=“” this=“” stage=“” they=“” should=“” be=“” driving=“” the=“” admissions=“” application=“” process.=“”>></are></p>

<p>I agree with this, in the sense of wanting to apply, filling out their own applications and placement tests, studying for the SSAT, and, ultimately, choosing the school that’s right for them. </p>

<p>But, while I’m definitely impressed by reports of kids like Exies who called and arranged their own interviews, made travel arrangements, etc., I’m not sure that that level of “driving” is essential for success. </p>

<p>I have a very independent kid, and yet I made those arrangements. I continue to fill out many forms and fax and mail stuff off for him. I even–I admit it :slight_smile: --researched a bunch of schools, pointed son to some I thought might interest him, and sent most, if not all, of the initial inquiries in. I have confidence that he’ll be able to do that stuff on his own when he needs to–but in the meantime, I enjoy helping him just as he helps me with my stuff (watching his little sister, helping around the house, running errands…). Around here, that’s working as a family unit, not helicoptering. </p>

<p>My concern is that some parents might worry after reading Exies very persuasive posts that if a kid doesn’t do it all, they won’t succeed–and I just can’t believe that that’s true. I’m guessing that the majority of kids have someone–whether a parent, teacher, or consultant–helping them with the details. </p>

<p>Wonderful if they do operate that independently, of course–and perhaps they will have less of a hill to climb–but I don’t remember those challenges being terribly difficult when I had to meet them–at 18 or 19, not 14. Either way, I think all of our kids will do fine.</p>

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<p>For those of you who have access to information from the top prep schools this information is readily available from the respective naviance sites or school cco s.
Please reply in this forum with any data that you can find in the interest of scientifically analysing whether prep schools are declining in their influence of elite admissions. </p>

<p>Please post the following information:
Prep School Name:
Total of acceptances received from top ten colleges in 2009.
Total of matriculations at top ten colleges in 2009.
Total of acceptances received from top ten colleges in 2010.
Total of matriculations at top ten colleges in 2010 (when available).</p>

<p>I will collect all this and publish a post consolidating the information.</p>

<p>My hypothesis is that “needblind” admissions, the ease of the common application process, the URM cum diversity emphases , increase in the college-going high school class, increasing prosperity in India and China leading to international demand have vastly increased the pool of qualified candidates as measured by SAT scores, “international awards”,class ranks. An applicant has to stand out in this menagerie. I wonder whether the demands of a boarding school such as sports, busy schedule of homework, peer activities etc allow kids who are not athletes or legacies but just good students to add on coaching classes for improving SAT scores, go to “international competitions” and all the other “stuff” that it seems these elite colleges use to sift through the thousands of applications that they receive. Class ranks also seem to be a factor. It is definitely easier for a student to be 1/400 at a public high school than at Andover. It is definitely easier for a student to get a GPA of 4.00/4.00 at friendly day school than 6/6 at Andover (even if you take the basket weaving and birdwatching courses that are on the course of study).</p>

<p>So friends, what we might be witnessing is the final act in the diminution of the influence exerted by the top prep schools on the top colleges. The days of the headmaster at Andover deciding who and how many Yale or Harvard will get have long been gone but any hope that a parent may have that going to a top prep will improve the child’s prospect of going to the top ten colleges needs a “reality check”.</p>

<p>Andover may be a great showcase for the extraordinary athlete or scholar or legacy candidate but for most students it will be of diminishing help in matriculating at the top ten colleges in future.</p>

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<p>Acceptance statistics ( 2009 and 2010 ) for Phillips Academy, Andover</p>

<p>2009<br>
No. of offers from top ten (Ivies plus MIT plus Stanford): 195<br>
No. of matriculation from Andover at top ten: 113 </p>

<p>2010
No. of offers from top ten (Ivies plus MIT plus Stanford): 148<br>
No. of matriculation from Andover at top ten: ? </p>

<p>My forecast for 2010 matriculation from Andover at top ten: less than 100.</p>

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<p>Quantman: A debate will rage as to which colleges are the top 10, Universities, LACs? Ranking of colleges varies by the ranking organization. Why top 10, why not top 20 or 30?</p>

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<p>Benley,</p>

<p>I have responded to your pm. Hope you got it.</p>

<p>Pulsar<</p>

<p>Yes, you are right but I was just trying to limit the data set so that we can expeditiously collect and analyse and present it. I agree that the top ten colleges may be contentious but this is just one way of scientifically simplifying the problem so that the hypothesis can be verified or denied.</p>

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<p>I think [Prep</a> Review by MIT Oxbridge & Ivy League Educated Insiders](<a href=“http://www.prepreview.com%5DPrep”>http://www.prepreview.com) sells these stats.</p>

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<p>Interesting stats. I suspect that many of the “top ten” admissions at Andover are multiples—I know anecdotally of a student accepted at H, P, S, C (not by Y), and others who had at least C and H that I know of (could have more), which is one way that the acceptance rate reduces to a much lower number of matriculations. Of course the other way is for accepted students to choose non “top ten” colleges (as defined). </p>

<p>If quantman is right, it’s still going to be a phenomenal number. My daughter said of her friends, “Everyone got into Harvard.” I’m glad she hangs with such talented kids :slight_smile: (who she knows from an activity that colleges look favorably on) but I’m sure there were plenty of disappointments, too!</p>